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Developer Rules Update

Wouldn't it be a lot fairer to have the developers self-moderate themselves? With everyone taking down their cc's or not supporting them anymore because of this, I think there are really only a few options:

1) A kind of Developers Union. Make the key devs sub-mods or smth, and only allow them to attach files. If someone wants to share smth, they have to submit it to this Union, where they approve it.

2) The Devs start straight-up charging.

3) No one does anything to try to fix this, and the whole community loses, because some devs wont continue.

It sucks, but I really don't see this decision being reversed, or the devs who are boycotting agreeing to accept the current terms.
 
Have you ever used ShamWoW? It is near PERFECT. A farcry to all the other CC's on this forum.

Now, have you ever reported an issue to Bobby about ShamWoW? Again, he answers everyone and corrects the problem (which doesn't happen often because there are no problems)

Bobby is always a true professional and treats people with respect in his thread. Great guy. And as you said, anyone messing with Bobby's code would only make a mess..
 
My final 2 cents on the matter....

I have borrowed code from other developers, almost everyone has borrowed code from other developers. Each and every time I have asked the original developer for their permission, its simply a matter of manners and respect to do so. Where I have used a significant amount of code in my work that has been created by another person I will give them full credit for it, because that is the right thing to do. When I publicly released (past tense) my CCs to this community it was done with the expectation my work was 'safe' and the forum rules in place afforded me a certain level of protection against 'theft'. Simply put, the moderators were active in their enforcement of the forum rules and dealt with code / CC theft quickly and efficiently.

I created CCs because at one specific time I felt that either the class was not represented with sufficient options i.e not enough CCs, or that the available CCs were deficient in some feature and/or functionality. Now, I create CCs because I enjoy doing it, I enjoy the challenge of creating combat logic that is smart, efficient and as human as possible. I enjoy creating a project that is visually and logically user friendly; you don't look at the UI and have to ask yourself "WTF, how do I change this setting?". I enjoy adding new features that other projects don't have. Simply put, I do it for the enjoyment; the recognition is nice too :)

I don't mind developers borrowing my code snippets, I don't mind developers borrowing my ideas, I don't my people modifying my entire CC for personal / private use, I do mind people copying my entire project(s). With the changes to the Developer Rules and the introduction BSD licensing I have no confidence that my work will not be taken in its entirety, renamed, tweaked slightly and released as a new work by someone else. I don't care that imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I don't do this work so people can copy it.

I released my previous work under the active developer rules at the time, and as such if these same rules do not apply to my currently released work then I will be removing it. Before you say anything, yes I am being selfish! I am being selfish because I put countless hours into my original work and I don't want someone coming along tweaking a few lines and re-releasing it, I don't care if by doing so they make it better. Again, yes I'm being a selfish prick! You can use my code snippets but don't take my entire works. The community will still grow and new projects will still be developed.

As Hawker stated if we do not agree with the rules of these forums we can host our work elsewhere. I will be exercising my right to do so while the BSD license is in effect on these forums.

FYI I am still actively developing Fpsware Unity, but it will not be released on this forum. Those interested in using Unity can contact me via PM.
 
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All this hemming and hawing gets the community nowhere. Developers want to take down their SVNs in protest. That is their right. However, along with the new rule people could just re-upload the CC's/plugins and just give credit, so they will still be available just not supported. The only forseeable harm I can see is to the community as a whole, as people will continue to use HB and sign up/pay as we are lazy/busy and dont have time to hand-play.

Personally, I like the credit idea. However, I don't like that people will just change one thing then re-upload it to start a new project. It will muddle up the forums and perpetuate flame wars between developers and "developers" (jesus, I feel like Steve Balmer with that last sentence).

Logistically, it would be difficult to see another way to implement this. You could have developer mod panel, which approves the codes to be uploaded. However, that would likely be abused as no matter how good of a guy you claim to be, you have your own biases. You could keep it how it is, but the developers will still be upset and adversely affect the community by withholding/stalling projects.

TLDR: Can't we all just get along?
 
If i cant use Ezfrost, Lazyraider, and swiny's pvprogue CC's then i have no reason to use honorbuddy. That is unless somebody is capable of producing dedicated quality pvp CC's like these developers have. I'm an avid user and like most of the our community I have no clue about coding or any other bull shit you people are talking about. But understand that I spent my money on honorbuddy to specifically use the CC's I've listed, and at this particular moment i'm very dissatisfied because they have removed their SVN information (and could possible halt all updates). Somebody needs to make a compromise because I need to play wow. :mad:
 
right me if im wrong. No more CC's? so as the OP says we need to learn coding?
So how to make your own CC? what program to use and so on? Links and all the help would be really nice for me since i have no clue about coding.
 
If i cant use Ezfrost, Lazyraider, and swiny's pvprogue CC's then i have no reason to use honorbuddy. That is unless somebody is capable of producing dedicated quality pvp CC's like these developers have. I'm an avid user and like most of the our community I have no clue about coding or any other bull shit you people are talking about. But understand that I spent my money on honorbuddy to specifically use the CC's I've listed, and at this particular moment i'm very dissatisfied because they have removed their SVN information (and could possible halt all updates). Somebody needs to make a compromise because I need to play wow. :mad:

No offense, but how are you being stopped from using those classes right now? Did you accidentally delete the latest dump?
 
right me if im wrong. No more CC's? so as the OP says we need to learn coding?
So how to make your own CC? what program to use and so on? Links and all the help would be really nice for me since i have no clue about coding.

Actually, the change allows for more CCs. There will still be quite a few developers here that continue to create CCs, and it'll be easier for new developers to step up and create new projects based off of existing projects.
 
Actually, the change allows for more CCs. There will still be quite a few developers here that continue to create CCs, and it'll be easier for new developers to step up and create new projects based off of existing projects.

which means we will have a lot less CCs but better ones?
 
right me if im wrong. No more CC's? so as the OP says we need to learn coding?
So how to make your own CC? what program to use and so on? Links and all the help would be really nice for me since i have no clue about coding.

Moron Alert... ATTENTION... Moron Alert!
 
No offense, but how are you being stopped from using those classes right now? Did you accidentally delete the latest dump?

Nothing is stopping me from playing but I'm concerned about the maintenance and updates of these CC's. And to be honest I've developed a loyalty to these developers and I think they deserve the respect to take their concerns into account for the work they have put in.
 
I have borrowed code from other developers, almost everyone has borrowed code from other developers. Each and every time I have asked the original developer for their permission, its simply a matter of manners and respect to do so. Where I have used a significant amount of code in my work that has been created by another person I will give them full credit for it, because that is the right thing to do. When I publicly released (past tense) my CCs to this community it was done with the expectation my work was 'safe' and the forum rules in place afforded me a certain level of protection against 'theft'. Simply put, the moderators were active in their enforcement of the forum rules and dealt with code / CC theft quickly and efficiently.

I created CCs because at one specific time I felt that either the class was not represented with sufficient options i.e not enough CCs, or that the available CCs were deficient in some feature and/or functionality. Now, I create CCs because I enjoy doing it, I enjoy the challenge of creating combat logic that is smart, efficient and as human as possible. I enjoy creating a project that is visually and logically user friendly; you don't look at the UI and have to ask yourself "WTF, how do I change this setting?". I enjoy adding new features that other projects don't have. Simply put, I do it for the enjoyment; the recognition is nice too :)

I don't mind developers borrowing my code snippets, I don't mind developers borrowing my ideas, I don't my people modifying my entire CC for personal / private use, I do mind people copying my entire project(s). With the changes to the Developer Rules and the introduction BSD licensing I have no confidence that my work will not be taken in its entirety, renamed, tweaked slightly and released as a new work by someone else. I don't care that imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I don't do this work so people can copy it.

I released my previous work under the active developer rules at the time, and as such if these same rules do not apply to my currently released work then I will be removing it. Before you say anything, yes I am being selfish! I am being selfish because I put countless hours into my original work and I don't want someone coming along tweaking a few lines and re-releasing it, I don't care if by doing so they make it better. Again, yes I'm being a selfish prick! You can use my code snippets but don't take my entire works. The community will still grow and new projects will still be developed.

As Hawker stated if we do not agree with the rules of these forums we can host our work elsewhere. I will be exercising my right to do so while the BSD license is in effect on these forums.

FYI I am still actively developing Fpsware Unity, but it will not be released on this forum. Those interested in using Unity can contact me via PM.

THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS. I can't explain enough how much this resonates with me and how I feel about the situation.

I have no confidence that my work will not be taken in its entirety, renamed, tweaked slightly and released as a new work by someone else
This line in particular.
 
I'd like to play devils advocate for a second, and remind everyone who is hosting their code on googles servers. You are already using an open source licence, I think the default might be BSD. I went through a lot of trouble setting up my own SVN server so that I could insure that I retained all the rights to my work.
 
It's hard enough to get quality CCs for all classes and specs. When you buy HB, it depends on the community devs to hash out all the good profiles/plugins/CCs/etc. Most are actually willing to take advice/changes into consideration on their next code update, but taking their ability to keep their code as theirs other than just a line somewhere giving them 'credit' is also taking away their paypal donation links, their rep links, and the only 'glory' they get from helping this bot program out.

Taking this little bit even away from them, causing them to strike and remove their CCs from use? That's hurting the community more than having closed codes does.

This is a huge step back for so many devs that actually donate their full time to this bot WITHOUT official compensation.

I stand by the devs on this one and I am sorry we are going to lose out as users with them blocking their excellent codes. (Lazyraider guys, I miss you already).
 
I'd like to play devils advocate for a second, and remind everyone who is hosting their code on googles servers. You are already using an open source licence, I think the default might be BSD. I went through a lot of trouble setting up my own SVN server so that I could insure that I retained all the rights to my work.

I also took note of this a couple months ago when I decided to change the SVN host for my project(s).
 
I can TOTALLY understand that you guys don't want your work to be copied, but talking about LICENSING is just ridiculous.

If I were to copy your work (not that I ever would), would you take legal action against someone on the other side of the world...?
Just curious. Maybe I'm missing something about the importance of the license itself.
 
Well I do not know where i fall into this mix...a code thief or someone who has re-used code and built upon it to strengthen the developing community.

For those that don't know I am the current developer of http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorb...-one/45356-clu-codified-likeness-utility.html.

I absolutely love the work cowdude did with felmaster and began actively creating rotations for it until cowdude took a leave of absence. I then found myself being the only one responding and helping members with the rotations that were created within the felmaster forum post - and some members even implied I was the original author - this eventually felt awkward.

After quite a while waiting for cowdudes return...I branched out - created a new VS project - and re-used some of cowdudes core - exchanging 99% of the LUA calls with the Honourbuddy API, documenting everything as I went and giving credit where needed. I then added my existing felmaster rotations as well as community contributed rotations (which i give full credit for).

At the moment there are a lot of members that are using CLU and enjoying its rotations with full support from myself. This is something I do not have to do.
I could simply keep CLU private - that way I wouldn't have to provide support - and use it for myself.
I have many hours invested in CLU, and a lot of wife rage :)

My perspective is, if a member was to copy CLU and rename it "Fantastico" and add value to it (with support) I wouldn't have an issue as the improvements they make can then be added back to CLU giving them credit (I think its called a Fork).

Not to mention the amount of code that singular has helped me with...

If indeed I am a code thief then I humbly apologise and will withdraw from the developing community leaving my projects intact.

Apologies for the wall of text.

Wulf

Goddamn Wulf is a badass
 
I think everyone should chill a little, but my own personal opinion is that i think this new rule has created a monster and the admins are probably get more pm's about the lack of cc than the stealing off code, which again i think its not about stealing rather about permissions to use, in life you dont take you ask first.
 
mastahg, in my last example I used Bobby and Kick. You're a great example as well, so is FPS. Who is honestly going to redo one of your CCs that your actively involved in? Who would even use it? If it's FPSware's CC vs no-name, I'm going with fpsware. If it's yours versus new guy that added one feature, I'm going with yours. I'd expect that the feature (if popular) would be added to yours eventually if it's something that's "holy crap awesome." Then again, if you're active in the forum you already know what people are requesting and there's a good chance it's already in the CC.

Now, if you made the CC then stopped supporting it... where does it hurt you if someone takes that and runs with it? That's a more likely scenario than someone changing a few things and releasing it as their own with you still being active.
 
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