Developer Rules Update

[mastahg]

I can TOTALLY understand that you guys don't want your work to be copied, but talking about LICENSING is just ridiculous.

If I were to copy your work (not that I ever would), would you take legal action against someone on the other side of the world...?
Just curious. Maybe I'm missing something about the importance of the license itself.

No, but I would exercise my rights as an IP holder under the DMCA. I really hate the DMCA as it has lots of restrictions on reverse engineering and other stuff, but stuff like this is clearly where it would be useful.

 

[Croga]

No, but I would exercise my rights as an IP holder under the DMCA. I really hate the DMCA as it has lots of restrictions on reverse engineering and other stuff, but stuff like this is clearly where it would be useful.

If you're not going to take legal action, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?
If the person doing the copying isn't a resident of the USA, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?

 

[wulf]

I have no confidence that my work will not be taken in its entirety, renamed, tweaked slightly and released as a new work by someone else. I don't care that imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I don't do this work so people can copy it.

I am being selfish because I put countless hours into my original work and I don't want someone coming along tweaking a few lines and re-releasing it, I don't care if by doing so they make it better. Again, yes I'm being a selfish prick!

Obviously you and mastahg have your blinkers on and have not read anything Hawker or Tony have written otherwise you would not have any issues.

If in 4 weeks, you have people spamming ccs with full credit to you and only 1 line and a name change, please remind me that I got this wrong. I doubt it will happen

and to summarise your entire post using your own words

Again, yes I'm being a selfish prick!

 

[mastahg]

If you're not going to take legal action, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?
If the person doing the copying isn't a resident of the USA, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?

I wouldn't consider a dmca taken down legal action, as it requires nothing more then filling out a form.

 

[SpigotStyle]

If you're not going to take legal action, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?
If the person doing the copying isn't a resident of the USA, how are you going to excercise your rights under the DMCA?

DMCA is just the US's embodiment of the WIPO Copyright and Performance and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act, so the overarching treaty would encompass this. That said, WIPO's treaty doesn't have an enforcement provision and leaves that up to country by country (as opposed to the TRIPS implmentation of the Berne. Agreement)

Additionally, if he is in the US if he wanted to sue he is going into a quagmire by not having his Copyright actually registered. That is a prereq. to getting any damages or lawyer's fees. Also, the US courts hate "hackers" (crotchety old men), and likely wouldn't even sniff the case considering it relates to a bot program for WoW given the holding of Blizzard v. MDY.

/lawrantoff

 

[PTankadin]

Well, to be totally honest, it is not helping the Community, it is hurting it because now Developers are not happy and they are pulling their CC's.

 

[Cukie]

Well, to be totally honest, it is not helping the Community, it is hurting it because now Developers are not happy and they are pulling their CC's.

Obviously we (the community) have no say in this, so arguing about it is irrelevant.

 

[incognitto]

If you dont love it....

Bloodly well leave it!!!!!

Yes its really that simple.

 

[Toney001]

Now I am totally OK with this on the condition that the "Bots" are also taken open source.

Wouldn't this enable Blizzard to detect HB?

And Masta, again, Bossland is in Germany, I'm in Argentina. Could you, with whatever resources you have, do anything to either of us if we violated your copyright? I highly doubt that.
You're arguing over property of a text file that is worth NOTHING in the real world (yes, I'm calling whatever money you sell it for nothing). Do you sincerely think ANYONE would take on that case?
There goes the whole point of your license I believe, but feel free to show me where I'm wrong (and I'm serious, because I don't know anything about US law).

Again, I wanna make clear I totally understand (even if I don't share) your point of view on people "copying" your work, I just feel like this blew completely out of proportion and nothing will really change.

 

[Natfoth]

Now I am totally OK with this on the condition that the "Bots" are also taken open source. This would give us the change to fix all the damn problems with them and have for personal use or share. Now I don't want the source for honorbuddy, but I do want those bots open source so I can fix the shit wrong with them. Instancebuddy completely unusable for a fucking year is absurd and how long pvp went with out a fix is even dumber. Now I have the utmost respect for Hawker / Kick / Apoc (on a programming skill level), but the dev turn around time on their featured "Bots" is WAY too slow.

instancebuddy is not longer even supported there is a totally new written from the ground up one now called Dungeonbuddy that will be in next months hb release (hopefully) also pvp was just totally rewritten last month. 2 total re writes is pretty good for the team so far. You just have to give them time, making the bots is not simple at all and if you can do better all the tools are there. The team uses the exact same API as whats free for everyone to use. Professionbuddy is an awesome example.

 

[wulfen]

there would be almost NO way for anyone even in the US to enforce a non registered copyright without a huge monetary investment and then for something like this it would also require proving that your work is sufficiently unique to warrant the registration yes it some one has something similar they can turn you down even it they contain not a single line of code the same

 

[swiny]

Remember I have a real problem with people sending abusive messages to mods and trying to persuade me to fire mods or ban users because of "stolen code" disputes. If the rule change causes you a problem at some point, of course I would respond to that. But it would have to be a real problem. Based on the experience of developing for Glider and of the OpenBot developers here, I don't expect any issues.

pmsl.

you have less people than you think

oh and reading on, even less now. fpsware and all.

 

[vengfull]

The entertainment - She is strong in this thread.

 

[xblacktigerx]

Nothing is going to change, because both sides think they are 100% right. In the end, it's only the community that loses.

I use HB for 2 things really: bgbuddy and lazyraider.
-> I bgbuddy on my rogue and dk, since my mage doesnt have a good pvp cc.
-> I use lazyraider with my rogue, dk, and mage.

The end result of what this new rule has done: I will have no use for HB anymore soon. & I definitely feel like I'm NOT in the minority here when I say that.

 

[rcadams]

OMG SwInY is a blizzard plant!!!! He's here to break up HB from inside.. ROFL

 

[swiny]

OMG SwInY is a blizzard plant!!!! He's here to break up HB from inside.. ROFL

love it.

 

[wownerds]

One thing that just popped into my mind:

Before changing the license on CCs, why not make a proper API documentation. The current one really discourages beginners from starting their development.

 

[Venus112]

One thing that just popped into my mind:

Before changing the license on CCs, why not make a proper API documentation. The current one really discourages beginners from starting their development.

And an up to date wiki and a beginners guide actually suited for beginners

Only reason I was able to learn anything was to look at others CCs and my knowledge of programming programmable logistical controllers

 

[Croga]

And an up to date wiki and a beginners guide actually suited for beginners

What's stopping you?

I know that every time that I had to look something up on the WIKI and found it lacking, I updated the WIKI so that the next person wouldn't have to look further anymore.
WIKI in and of itself is a crowdsourced resource. If you find it lacking, there's really no reason not to just update it.

 

[wownerds]

What's stopping you?

I know that every time that I had to look something up on the WIKI and found it lacking, I updated the WIKI so that the next person wouldn't have to look further anymore.
WIKI in and of itself is a crowdsourced resource. If you find it lacking, there's really no reason not to just update it.

Why should the unpaid hobby devs who already dedicate a lot of their free time to coding also keep the wiki updated? To me it seems you want to use the devs as a scapegoat for everything.