Developer Rules Update

[A1l3n]

You people have no sense of making a better community ( IE Venus, FPSware and so on.) Why would you not want someone to take your work, put a new spin on it that is better for everyone and put it out to the public so EVERYONE is happy.I understand that you work countless hours on your projects. But if someone can make it better when you can not.... Then so be it. Your not gaining anything from this anyways. You act like your getting money stolen from you.

These are the reasons why some of the CC forums have like 3-10 post in it and half of them are faulty and not updated regularly. With this in place people can make mods to your code and post them for the people who needed that to be done and not have to wait on the CC dev's to get time to do it. Alot of the CC devs work and don't have all the time in the world to work on there projects. So why not let someone pick up on your slack and help you out and help the community out.

Tho I've seen it before where some pricks hijack code to make there "Own" CC's and don't change a thing just rename it. I think there should be a rule listing what change's you have done, who's framework you are using and thank the person you got it from. And that should be it. It's to better the community not make you rage like a 10 year old boy that just got his YU-GI-OH card's stolen.

 

[weischbier]

Have you ever used ShamWoW? It is near PERFECT. A farcry to all the other CC's on this forum.

Now, have you ever reported an issue to Bobby about ShamWoW? Again, he answers everyone and corrects the problem (which doesn't happen often because there are no problems)

Dude,I don't want to offend you but you somehow annoy me.
If you got nothing important to say then please say nothing.
Again I don't want to offend you but this is how I feel atm...I just hope you can deal with my honesty.

And to at least answer you.
Yes i know Shamwow...and I know what it is capable of.
And Yes, I reported one or two bugs to him.
And Yes, I know he replies to everyone.

greetz

Weischbier

 

[Toney001]

Yes i know Shamwow...and I know what it is capable of.
And Yes, I reported one or two bugs to him.
And Yes, I know he replies to everyone.

^ This. I very much DARE anyone think they can out do Bobby.
Just because it CAN happen (people rehashing projects left and right) doesn't mean it will.

People should save their tears for when/if that time comes.

 

[Zoinx]

Dude,I don't want to offend you but you somehow annoy me.
If you got nothing important to say then please say nothing.
Again I don't want to offend you but this is how I feel atm...I just hope you can deal with my honesty.

And to at least answer you.
Yes i know Shamwow...and I know what it is capable of.
And Yes, I reported one or two bugs to him.
And Yes, I know he replies to everyone.

greetz

Weischbier

Don't care about your personal feelings toward me. I am not here to make friends.

You are with the group of people who are complaining about something that HB sound of done LONG ago, just like all the old botting communities did, and worked out great. None of you are open minded and think people will care that your CC's are taken down. Guess what? Others will step up and take off where you left off. It happens all the time. Decision is made and is final. Don't like it? Leave, you don't need to post over and over the exact same thing. There mind is set and it's FINAL. Have them archive all your created threads and move along.

 

[likwid818]

Just another way for the HB team to alienate it's VOLUNTARY(not paid) CC developers. We went through this whole thing with Fpsware like 2 years ago. Mass exodus of quality CC's and developers incoming.

 

[panacea99]

idk if some of you are missing the fact that we are the admins and the mods of this site

let us decide whats the best for the community and respect our opinion

we heared all off you,we made our decisions and its final


you are trying to turn someting minor to a major issue

Honorbuddy without these devs is pretty bare bones. When I first came from pirox I thought the bot was horrible honestly.

I think it is beneficial for others to be able to modify code, especially for out of date projects. Just come to an agreement as to what conditions these modifications should have (naming conventions, how it is credited).

If you guys are making money off the backs of people that make your product better, you need to listen to them regardless if you think you don't have to.

 

[Zoinx]

Honorbuddy without these devs is pretty bare bones. When I first came from pirox I thought the bot was horrible honestly.

I think it is beneficial for others to be able to modify code, especially for out of date projects. Just come to an agreement as to what conditions these modifications should have (naming conventions, how it is credited).

If you guys are making money off the backs of people that make your product better, you need to listen to them regardless if you think you don't have to.

First they make Honorbuddy, without it all the developers wouldn't have a platform to develop.

Honorbuddy has paid employees for Profiles, plugins, quest behaviors, core bot development and CC (Singular).

Singular is PERFECTLY fine at what the bot is supposed to do... bot. Now with the addition of COMMUNITY added Botbases like LazyRaider (no way affiliated with teh HB developers), COMMUNITY members made COMMUNITY CC's for that COMMUNITY BOTBASE, which again none of is created or maintained by HB employees.

You act like no one is going to make CC's ever again. There are plenty of other CC developers here and plenty of other CC's that are still open on the forum and say the changes for what they are, beneficial.

In real world comparison:
Honorbuddy = Apple
CC's/Plugins = Apps
Developers = Developers

Does Apply bend over to meet the needs of Developers of Apps on the iPhone/iPad? No. Developers adapt to Apples requirements and restrictions.


Long story short: Honorbuddy will be here with or without those developers who feel they are somehow violated. The entire purpose for the forums is to harvest a community where CC's, Profiles and Plugins can be shared and made better by trial and error, not just one sole person who wants entire credit and proprietary rights to their creation. If you are not here for the community, you do not need to be apart of it then.

 

[Ama]

We will probably see a bit more involvement when Panda wow comes out. Not really any incentive to work on CCs with the expansion getting ready to break them all.

I don't really think there is anything qualitatively new that can be said in this thread.

 

[likwid818]

First they make Honorbuddy, without it all the developers wouldn't have a platform to develop.

Honorbuddy has paid employees for Profiles, plugins, quest behaviors, core bot development and CC (Singular).

Singular is PERFECTLY fine at what the bot is supposed to do... bot. Now with the addition of COMMUNITY added Botbases like LazyRaider (no way affiliated with teh HB developers), COMMUNITY members made COMMUNITY CC's for that COMMUNITY BOTBASE, which again none of is created or maintained by HB employees.

You act like no one is going to make CC's ever again. There are plenty of other CC developers here and plenty of other CC's that are still open on the forum and say the changes for what they are, beneficial.

In real world comparison:
Honorbuddy = Apple
CC's/Plugins = Apps
Developers = Developers

Does Apply bend over to meet the needs of Developers of Apps on the iPhone/iPad? No. Developers adapt to Apples requirements and restrictions.


Long story short: Honorbuddy will be here with or without those developers who feel they are somehow violated. The entire purpose for the forums is to harvest a community where CC's, Profiles and Plugins can be shared and made better by trial and error, not just one sole person who wants entire credit and proprietary rights to their creation. If you are not here for the community, you do not need to be apart of it then.

While I disagree with your entire statement, the part that I really have a problem with is this:

Singular is PERFECTLY fine at what the bot is supposed to do... bot.

You're serious? Singular is a poor excuse for a CC if that. You ever tried to use Singular with an arcane mage? Try it out, then get back with me.

The fact of the matter is, the DEVELOPERS who VOLUNTEER their time to create awesome CC's OWN THE CODE THEY PRODUCE, whether they share it freely or not. They created it, it belongs to them. They can do with it what they see fit. And the argument about them making Honorbuddy so the dev's have a platform to develop on is just plain fucking ignorant. Judging from your Join date, You weren't here when this shit first started. You weren't here for HB1 Beta when there were NO CC's packaged with the bot. Guess who they relied on to get those CC's developed? That's right: The community. So it goes both ways, they work hand in hand. Without the platform to develop CC's on, there would be no CC's, sure. But without the CC's making the platform (HB) USABLE, I'd be somewhat inclined to say that the HB team NEEDS good developers on their side. Anyone who is arguing FOR this change obviously has not dedicated tens, or hundreds of hours in some cases to CC development.

Lastly.. In my opinion, the best thing the HB team could do is to quit letting the "community" create their CC's at all. Hire one or two FULL TIME quality CC devs (Bobby53 and FPSware, I'm looking at you.) and have them work on a CC that works for EVERY class. Not a jumbled mess like Singular.

 

[buzzerbeater]

While I disagree with your entire statement, the part that I really have a problem with is this:



You're serious? Singular is a poor excuse for a CC if that. You ever tried to use Singular with an arcane mage? Try it out, then get back with me.

Calm down please.

They hired Highvoltz a short time ago who will dev Singular. If you have a problem with it, post it, he will most likely fix it, because he is a great dev. They're expanding the Team slowly but surely.

For the other points, i have nothing to say, i'm not a dev at all.

 

[Zoinx]

You're serious? Singular is a poor excuse for a CC if that. You ever tried to use Singular with an arcane mage? Try it out, then get back with me.

Arcane Mage you say? I use Amplify for that, oh CodenameG is still here and developing his CC. Next question regarding that?

The fact of the matter is, the DEVELOPERS who VOLUNTEER their time to create awesome CC's OWN THE CODE THEY PRODUCE, whether they share it freely or not. They created it, it belongs to them. They can do with it what they see fit. And the argument about them making Honorbuddy so the dev's have a platform to develop on is just plain fucking ignorant.

Again, community driven project that supports the community. If community members take a project and make it better, where is the problem? If you read what others such as the MODERATORS have wrote, or were around before HB and used Glider you would know this was very common back then and VERY acceptable and created great CC's. There were not 40 FPSware Paladin (Modified!!!) versions. It's brand recognition. As long as they keep there quality up they will be the CC people use, if not the community will use the better one. There's a problem in that?

Judging from your Join date, You weren't here when this shit first started. You weren't here for HB1 Beta when there were NO CC's packaged with the bot. Guess who they relied on to get those CC's developed? That's right: The community. So it goes both ways, they work hand in hand. Without the platform to develop CC's on, there would be no CC's, sure.

Join date? Didn't realize what happened over 2 years ago mattered, but with a join date 2 months prior to me you obviously have MUCH more knowledge, so do tell about the past more, it's clearly interesting.

But without the CC's making the platform (HB) USABLE, I'd be somewhat inclined to say that the HB team NEEDS good developers on their side. Anyone who is arguing FOR this change obviously has not dedicated tens, or hundreds of hours in some cases to CC development.

Like I said, I fully use HB stock out the gate no problems.

 

[greaterdeath]

If you guys are making money off the backs of people that make your product better, you need to listen to them regardless if you think you don't have to.

I see some devs leaving/stopping because of this and I see some devs coming back because of this. And from the sounds of things a lot of manipulating on the part of some devs is going to stop also (ie. soandso stole my code, I dont like soandso and am going to pull everything). They've already stated in no uncertain terms that anyone who is unhappy with the change can find the door. Personally, I prefer devs who unconditionally share their work and are open to suggestion/constructive criticism to make their work better for everyone.

 

[ushername]

In real world comparison:
Honorbuddy = Apple
CC's/Plugins = Apps
Developers = Developers

Does Apply bend over to meet the needs of Developers of Apps on the iPhone/iPad? No. Developers adapt to Apples requirements and restrictions.


Long story short: Honorbuddy will be here with or without those developers who feel they are somehow violated. The entire purpose for the forums is to harvest a community where CC's, Profiles and Plugins can be shared and made better by trial and error, not just one sole person who wants entire credit and proprietary rights to their creation. If you are not here for the community, you do not need to be apart of it then.

Well, i didnt want to join this discussion at the start, but your analogy is just so bad.

Apple delivers a platform, for the developers to earn money on.
Do you think developeres would stick with Apple, if they decided to give away the developers work?

No matter how you spin it. If people that contributed with CCs are withdrawing their work, then the community is losing out on some of HBs potential. Maybe a new series of CCs will see the daylight.

Its not that i dont like the idea of opensource and sharing the code, but the way it happened .. it just seems so aggresive.

 

[panacea99]

First they make Honorbuddy, without it all the developers wouldn't have a platform to develop.

Honorbuddy has paid employees for Profiles, plugins, quest behaviors, core bot development and CC (Singular).

Singular is PERFECTLY fine at what the bot is supposed to do... bot. Now with the addition of COMMUNITY added Botbases like LazyRaider (no way affiliated with teh HB developers), COMMUNITY members made COMMUNITY CC's for that COMMUNITY BOTBASE, which again none of is created or maintained by HB employees.

You act like no one is going to make CC's ever again. There are plenty of other CC developers here and plenty of other CC's that are still open on the forum and say the changes for what they are, beneficial.

In real world comparison:
Honorbuddy = Apple
CC's/Plugins = Apps
Developers = Developers

Does Apply bend over to meet the needs of Developers of Apps on the iPhone/iPad? No. Developers adapt to Apples requirements and restrictions.


Long story short: Honorbuddy will be here with or without those developers who feel they are somehow violated. The entire purpose for the forums is to harvest a community where CC's, Profiles and Plugins can be shared and made better by trial and error, not just one sole person who wants entire credit and proprietary rights to their creation. If you are not here for the community, you do not need to be apart of it then.

.....................................__.......... ......................................
.............................,-~*`?lllllll`*~,................................... .......
.......................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll?`*-,....................................
..................,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,..................................
...............,-*lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllll.\.......................... .......
.............;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\............................ ....
..............\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/.........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,......................... ..
...............\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*...........`~-~-,...(.(?`*,`,..........................
................\llllllllllll,-~*.....................)_-\..*`*;..)..........................
.................\,-*`?,*`)............,-~*`~................/.....................
..................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;................/.\..................
................./.../.../.../..,-,..*~,.`*~*................*...\.................
................|.../.../.../.*`...\...........................)....)?`~,...... ............
................|./.../..../.......)......,.)`*~-,............/....|..)...`~-,.............
..............././.../...,*`-,.....`-,...*`....,---......\..../...../..|.........?```*~-,,,,
...............(..........)`*~-,....`*`.,-~*.,-*......|.../..../.../............\........
................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*..........|.,*...,*...|..............\........
...................*,.........`-,...)-,..............,-*`...,-*....(`-,............\.......
......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........

As an Api based program, you need to take into consideration those that do work to make it better. It is not in the same situation as Apple where devs are still able to generate huge profits and maintain their rights to their source code.

Just saying you guys should take into consideration those that have helped make it better and not be goons with them.

 

[nomnomnom]

Does the government ask you whether it's okay to change a law? Does the caretaker of a road ask you whether it's okay to change the maximum speed on that road?

Still, government is chosen by the people thus you can assume that the most % of people agree with the vision of the ruling government. This is not the case in this story, so your example is bollocks.

Just a question for the admins;
Is there anything which we, the Honorbuddy users and paying customers, can do about this? Eg; What if we start a petition or something?

 

[Obliv]

No one is going to take a GOOD CC where the author is active and modify it. Look at every GOOD CC (or plug-in) that has had active authors, and you'll see for the most part... they're never touched. Who is going to take ShamWoW and modify it? No one. Bobby is on the forum CONSTANTLY helping out and taking input on making his CC better. How about Kick's profiles? No one will redo those. You can submit a bug and it's fixed in no time. Same thing is happening now that we have HighVoltz on Singular. Active authors that take feedback from the community have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Those GOOD CC's and plug-ins absolutely should be modified if there's a reason to. Croga used Kicks profile to make an awesome AFK Daily Profile... props to both of them. Kick allowed someone to use his code to further improve the community.

The only people that will be hurt here are authors that don't take feedback and never update... and I'm glad those CCs and plug-ins are now free use. It allows us to better the community as a whole. You donated something to the community and decided you didn't want to participate or take suggestions. Either take the project down or leave it so the community can improve upon it. You weren't paid for giving it to us. Don't donate something to the community if you're going to be a jerk when people update it because you don't.

Once again, good authors that are active have absolutely nothing to worry about.

+rep to the mods for making this change, and +rep for the good devs sticking around that realize this means nothing for them.

 

[Hawker]

Still, government is chosen by the people thus you can assume that the most % of people agree with the vision of the ruling government. This is not the case in this story, so your example is bollocks.

Just a question for the admins;
Is there anything which we, the Honorbuddy users and paying customers, can do about this? Eg; What if we start a petition or something?

Remember I have a real problem with people sending abusive messages to mods and trying to persuade me to fire mods or ban users because of "stolen code" disputes. If the rule change causes you a problem at some point, of course I would respond to that. But it would have to be a real problem. Based on the experience of developing for Glider and of the OpenBot developers here, I don't expect any issues.

 

[Beast]

This is so fucking stupid ... everyone taking down their shit ... this is exactly how you ruin a good thing.

This is COMMUNITY DRIVEN, so help drive the community.

If I had the the knowledge to create a badass CC and spent hours on it then I saw my code being used I'd feel a sense of pride because it was good enough to help someone else.

 

[CodenameG]

Still, government is chosen by the people thus you can assume that the most % of people agree with the vision of the ruling government. This is not the case in this story, so your example is bollocks.

Just a question for the admins;
Is there anything which we, the Honorbuddy users and paying customers, can do about this? Eg; What if we start a petition or something?

we implemented the developer rules without "prior notification" and when we did no one complained, hell no one even noticed for what seemed like months. this isnt a "im mother fucking blizzard i have a ToS and im banning you because i think you smell funny" kinda thing, this is a "we put a rule in that was meant to help people, but instead became abused, and wasted our time as moderators" (if it was only Me or Tony) getting bugged that would be fine, but INSTEAD people thought it was fine to start PMing Bossland, and Hawker and people who are busy making this business run and making this product work, and they have to take time out to settle something that shouldn't be happening in the first place.

this rule instead of helping development has hindered it and not just development of community projects ether, our moderators having to deal with the issues (who arent trained to, for the most part it was me have to take over most of these issues besides maybe kick, no one else can code), and now our development team (mainly hawker) who is now wasting his time from working on BuddyWing, to deal with people just being selfish.

 

[Gentoo]

I'm gonna vote undecided and blame Bush.