[Official] Banwave 1 February 2017 Discussion

[braindead444]

We all know Blizzard can not win by banning and software means, all that does is throw up temporary road blocks that piss off people and give enjoyment to the people who reside in the blizzard forums and play the game "by hand." For the rest of us that bot for various reasons we need to keep at it and continue support for bossland because we all know that Blizzard has the money to run this company into the ground through legal battles. We can already see the warning signs when the lifetime keys were pulled in favor of a 2 year system. Some may say that its a good thing that bossland will get shutdown other, such as myself, will not say that is a good thing as I do enjoy the product that they make. Whatever side you may be on we should all at least be a little bit thankful that we can gain gold and levels without wasting our precious time in the process. Try to remember that when we get ban waves all the people in the Blizzard forums rejoice, just get back to botting as quick as you can so that we can shut the keyboard warriors up as fast as possible.

 

[ivanm]

The bot doesnt make sense for a casual botter. All the things you achieve with the help of the bot go to waste when they ban you, and they will 100%, in 3 months. So you are better off playing by hand and keeping the account. I lost my main Vanilla account last banwave for 6 months. If i continue botting on it it will be perma banned or 18 months, which is the same. When i lost my account i bought another to play till the ban expires. I just lvled 4 chars and stopped a month ago, which proved to be smart... The account survived. Im done with botting. Botting is strictly for serious gold sellers who consider it a bonus if account lives more than 2 months. period.

 

[k4njin]

The bot doesnt make sense for a casual botter. All the things you achieve with the help of the bot go to waste when they ban you, and they will 100%, in 3 months. So you are better off playing by hand and keeping the account. I lost my main Vanilla account last banwave for 6 months. If i continue botting on it it will be perma banned or 18 months, which is the same. When i lost my account i bought another to play till the ban expires. I just lvled 4 chars and stopped a month ago, which proved to be smart... The account survived. Im done with botting. Botting is strictly for serious gold sellers who consider it a bonus if account lives more than 2 months. period.

I honestly don't have much time to do other things than raiding, or one day just to get the +15 cache key. And i don't even have sons, but i work. What i'm trying to say is that the casuals and the gold sellers, im my opinion, needs two types of different bot.
The casuals needs only mount farming / farming (less than a gold seller) / leveling / world quests. And if you don't care for the mounts, you'd need less more.
It always depends on the level you play WoW btw. If you do just normal content, lfr, etc. ofc you don't need a bot. But if you aim for more high objectives or u play a lot, or if you don't have time, you just can't keep the farm up, if you do something more than playing wow in your real life.
Thanks for your thoughts, btw

 

[prettygreat]

Bans always hurt - I only ever used a CR, and never for anything public. Might restart but just work the AH and give up on any hopes of being a raider or doing high level M+.

 

[jethroucc]

I Said a while back a wave was coming and I got a infraction on commenting on a banwave coming

You look in the ban section of dates of bans and how many there are they slow down to nothing it happens every time a ban wave comes out for the last 2.5 years since hb got the big hit in 13-May-2015

Hb is just unsafe to use but any bot is like that now

I used HB for a couple months about 3 1/2 years ago, stopping completely after I lost 2/5 accounts. I made my own profiles, and never AFK'd more than a few time, and never longer than maybe 10-15 minutes. I always doubted that HB was "undetectable" (im a developer, and can confidently say "undetectable" is a very temporary state for any software that has any interaction outside of its own namespace), and mentioned my ban, my limited and controlled HB usage, and the fact that HB in its current state "might be detectable" by Blizz. I was given an infraction as well, and had a few other long-term regulars jump down my throat for even suggesting such a thing. Long story short, the fact that even discussing HB being detected, or being the cause of any suspension/ban was a punishable offense was the definitive end of HB for me. Not allowing paying customers to discuss an issue (even casually) that might affect the entire userbase, and making the topic a bannable offense? Immediate alarm bells. A product isn't "perfect" simply because discussing potential points of failure are prohibited. Three words sum it up: Shady Horse-Cockery.

I certainly wouldn't put the blame on developers here though, attempting to obfuscate any software in an attempt to avoid detection is a constant uphill battle. It's difficult as all hell, even without being actively targeted. With Blizz in-the-know for so long, having clear access to the software itself, with some of the top-tier developers around on staff and in large numbers? I wouldn't waste my time developing a private bot, let alone one meant for sale to the public.. But I can comfortably say that misleading customers and banning any and all criticism is a dirty way to conduct business.

On another note, it's kind of silly that people are getting all indignant about "legit" accounts being banned, or logs being kept past 30 days etc etc.. Blizz considers botting "cheating" regardless of anyones opinion or rationalization. It's like if a person were to steal your credit cards from your wallet. Naturally, you'd likely not trust that person with your wallet again. Does it make sense for that person to turn the situation around and be mad at you for not letting them carry your wallet around anymore? I mean, ya they ook your credit cards, but they didn't touch the cash, which means YOU'RE the asshole for not trusting them still... backwards logic right? TL;DR: You did the crime, don't be upset when you have to do the time.

 

[automationarmy]

I'm not an Einstein but here is simple equation.

You cheat + They Ban = You cry.

Man up / women up whoever you are, and be responsible for your own actions.

this has to do with what exactly?

 

[automationarmy]

They couldn't see it because Warden isn't clientsided.
When Warden gets an update, the client doesn't get one. So you can be sitting and botting, thinking you're safe, when boom, Warden is updated and you're flagged. Rip account.

and theres the fact recent detections have had nothing to do w/ warden.

 

[Kuat]

The bot doesnt make sense for a casual botter. All the things you achieve with the help of the bot go to waste when they ban you, and they will 100%, in 3 months. So you are better off playing by hand and keeping the account. I lost my main Vanilla account last banwave for 6 months. If i continue botting on it it will be perma banned or 18 months, which is the same. When i lost my account i bought another to play till the ban expires. I just lvled 4 chars and stopped a month ago, which proved to be smart... The account survived. Im done with botting. Botting is strictly for serious gold sellers who consider it a bonus if account lives more than 2 months. period.

Casual botters make the majority of the client base. Lose them and you can pretty much shut down your operation (especially with the lawsuits).

Bossland could go deep underground, abandon the lawsuits and create a new bot with a much lower userbase but much higher price. Blizzard wouldn't aggro anymore because of so few bot users so everyone is happy.

The way things are right now, I (as a casual botter) won't pay for shit anymore. I want to casual bot on my main and be 100% secure (like it was a few years ago). If this can't be offered then i'm not interested.

 

[automationarmy]

I suspect that the banwaves are based on bot behavior and are here for good. For example, do something that causes tripwire to fire and keep track of all accounts that immediately log. If an account does this three times in a month period, the probability of it being a bot is probably like 99.99%. So, silently collect data until unleashing the ban hammer on all accounts that fit a certain set of heuristics. If I believed in conspiracies, I might be inclined to think that Bossland knows the gig is up and is making a cash grab while he can.

nein. its the injection. always has been.

 

[eksaro]

Casual botters maker the majority of the client base. Lose them and you can pretty much shut down your operation (especially with the lawsuits).

Bossland could go deep underground, abandon the lawsuits and create a new bot with a much lower userbase but much higher price. Blizzard wouldn't aggro anymore because of so few bot users so everyone is happy.

The way things are right now, I (as a casual botter) won't pay for shit anymore. I want to casual bot on my main and be 100% secure (like it was a few years ago). If this can't be offered then i'm not interested.

It was NEVER 100% secure. It will NEVER be 100% secure.

 

[automationarmy]

I agree. We would've stood better united with better communication from Bossland. The question becomes who can we stand behind? Who can give us 6 months between banwaves and a trip wire that works?

why is 6 months the magic number? thats satisfactory to you? cause the first few YEARS i used honorbuddy, aacross a couple expansions i had 0 bans.

6 months sounds like enough time to get a fresh account leveled, geared, and well into the first raid tier of an xpac or so before they shat on you and you have to lie to your guild, and start the process all over again.

no thanks, ill wait until someone pops up that has plans for security without an expiration date. The bar has gotten lower and lower and lower. First years. then annual'ish. then 6 mo'ish. now much much less.

 

[Kuat]

I had casually botted for years on my main without being banned.

It all started back in 2015 when Blizz somehow started to detect HB and ban you just for having it running on your PC. It wasn't like that before.

So Blizz stepped up their detection game. If Bossland could step up and counter this, then it'd be back to normal.


(I don't care about farmers running 24/7, that way you get banned no questions asked. But casual botting while questing had been safe before for quite a long time.)

 

[Kuat]

why is 6 months the magic number? thats satisfactory to you? cause the first few YEARS i used honorbuddy, aacross a couple expansions i had 0 bans.

This.

I used to constantly casually bot since 2012 to 2015.

2015 was the first huge banwave by detection.

 

[pops12]

This.

I used to constantly casually bot since 2012 to 2015.

2015 was the first huge banwave by detection.

The reason it started in 2015 is because Blizzard went on massive hiring spree for game security. Look at the game credits difference in security in cataclysm to recent expansions/games its huge. They used to have like 7 people now its like 30.

 

[Kuat]

The way i see it, HB has become a victim of it's own success.

I feel that huge numbers of goldfarmers ruined it for everyone else. Professional sellers running 50 bot farms and ruining the game so much that it drew wrath from Blizzard and they finally decided to do something about it, since it was a major attack on their billion dollar business.

Because HB grew such a big goldfarmer userbase, Blizzard finally got off their asses and went HARD after it.

Had you kept the low profile, Blizzard wouldn't give a shit about people auto-questing or using CRs in dungeons/raids.
Now you will lose lawsuits and end up with a big fat ZERO.

 

[k4njin]

This.

I used to constantly casually bot since 2012 to 2015.

2015 was the first huge banwave by detection.

I'm a raider / casual not...maybe not 24/7 botter, but botter like you and i think that if blizzard really wanted to ban all the cheaters she could just do banwaves everyday, with detection, report, etc.

They just make more money doing banwaves. Like 20 accounts for every gold seller are 600 euros per seller.

That's why i hope bossland will make two different bots. I think that they can gain more money doing that.

Blizzard doesn't care about cheats...etc. they just care about the money, for me.
Talking by absurd, even Deadly Boss Mods, decursive, Healbot, TSM, Auctionator, and lots of most popular addons are cheats. People doesn't even know what cheat means nowadays.

 

[Kuat]

They just make more money doing banwaves. Like 20 accounts for every gold seller are 600 euros per seller.

Not, they don't care about that. WOW is a multi billion dollar business. Those account re-buys are peanuts to them compared to losing real playerbase subscription due to damage that goldsellers cause to the game. And that damage is immense, including game image (they can't have people laughing at how lame the game security is)

So the problem and threat to the game finally grew so big that Blizzard decided to go hard after botters.

 

[k4njin]

Not, they don't care about that. WOW is a multi billion dollar business. Those account re-buys are peanuts to them compared to losing real playerbase subscription due to damage that goldsellers cause to the game. And that damage is immense, including game image (they can't have people laughing at how lame the game security is)

So the problem and threat to the game finally grew so big that Blizzard decided to go hard after botters.

That's a good point too. In fact, when i botted in Cata, i remember that a GM talked to me cause i didn't receive a loot in the last raid for a bug...the funny thing was that i was botting when he talked to me but i was at lunch. After my return, i was struggling in panic, and i stupidly answered: "Sry, was at lunch". He just told me: "No problem! Now, can we give the loot to you?" Meanwhile the bot was still running XD

Do you think that the WoW Token increased their interests against bots?

 

[Kuat]

Do you think that the WoW Token increased their interests against bots?

Yes. They are trying to fight gold sellers hard, however they can.

 

[Aion]

Yes. They are trying to fight gold sellers hard, however they can.

Correct - for EU at least.

They tanked the Token price up, effectively inflating the gold price on the "aftermarket", because gold price is following the token price since a while.

The same they applied to US too, but in much less degree, for some reasons. Probably the token market on US/OC region is bit different, so they benefit more from the lower token price there.

We could speculate, but only Blizzard have the statistical data, so they tank the price up and down, depend on their favor.