trash

[Thecamel]

My point is - there's no reliable solution to avoiding this predicate.
Randomizing isn't a safe solution, and leaving it as is isn't a solution.

This is a topic for the staff or developers to discuss.
Something better and more reliable than randomization.
Maybe something like the "CompeteDistance" logic that's built into QBBase that has the bot stay away from other players.

-------




Define "enhanced."
Because there's absolutely no way the Honorbuddy staff could prevent 100% of the bans 100% of the time.

Tripwire already does its job perfectly fine. Just saying "enhance it" isn't really a request that can be made unless you have a solution to do so.
Unless the staff can figure out exactly how Blizzard is banning people - there's not going to be any way to improve it.

TL;DR, Tripwire is already as "enhanced" as it can be unless you have a solution to improve the heuristics.
The staff already puts a ton of work into tripwire, and has made it the best they can. Any flaws in it are Blizzard fighting back and can't be 100% prevented.

-------




I'm sure there's programmers here that have dedicated their life to coding that would disagree with you as well. As I am one of them.
Even the staff will admit that 64bit doesn't increase performance, as there's a few threads where they've stated it themselves.

That's such nonsense that people would believe that I don't even understand how this myth got started, it makes no sense at all. Lol.
Serious question, like I said I'm not trolling, I'm just curious: Do you even know what 64bit means for programs? Or what it even does to a program? Because it has nothing to do with a program's performance.

-------




As someone else said on this thread, Honorbuddy isn't the only bot or 'exploit tool' in existence.
There's hacks and other bots out there that already use 64bit. Blizzard wouldn't prioritize 32bit detection because that would be counter-intuitive to their detection methods.
Why would they focus on 32bit when they have better detection methods that can detect both 32bit and 64bit at the same time?

Blizzard isn't that foolish to rely on simple detection methods such as the bit architecture.
As EchoTiger said:

"They're a Triple-A gaming business. Their multi-million dollar anti-hack team not only knows more about detection than just scanning the client's bit, but they also have a lot more reliable ways of detecting bots. Scanning client bit numbers would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for them and surely they're not that pathetic to resort to it. There's a lot easier ways to detect Honorbuddy than checking a client's bit numbers that people should be worrying more about..."​

------




That could potentially be a good idea, but you have to consider the backlash.
People will get really mad over this, and it wouldn't be good for the company.

People will stop using Honorbuddy and will resort to calling the developers greedy.

I and I'm sure most other users dont mind paying a subscription IF we got more then what we get now..

I think the price we pay once of is fine for what we get "out of the bot"

however if they went to sub only- things would need to change such as:
Dungeon buddy- Would need to be support officially and raid scripts for LFR would need to be up to date (as in a few weeks after release).
A 64bit version of the bot would need to be developed (For performance reasons of WOW- nothing more) .
A Combat only (lite) version of HB would need to be included- basically a CR only optimized bot (much like SBR) however standard CRS for HB will work with it.
Store commissions of 40% would need to be reduced to 10-15% - and devs would need to bring there product prices down to reflect (HB would be getting the money from subs as well)
Support would need to improve.. Beyond "how to post a log" followed by the clean install processed"

 

[Z]

My point is - there's no reliable solution to avoiding this predicate.
Randomizing isn't a safe solution, and leaving it as is isn't a solution.

This is a topic for the staff or developers to discuss.
Something better and more reliable than randomization.
Maybe something like the "CompeteDistance" logic that's built into QBBase that has the bot stay away from other players.

It's good that we both agree that the current path/nav system is dangerous and can flag you/or get you reported! - 100k players(bots) are moving on the same cords - (Mass flag)
"CompeteDistance" is also a bit risky, again too many bots are on the same cords/path. This could also trigger a flag! (who knows!)
Why not try the "Randomize path"? still better than "train", and each player(bot) will have his/its own path. (the only option we have)

---------------

TL;DR, Tripwire is already as "enhanced" as it can be unless you have a solution to improve the heuristics.
The staff already puts a ton of work into tripwire, and has made it the best they can. Any flaws in it are Blizzard fighting back and can't be 100% prevented.

Maybe shutdown HB on any changes/updates pushed by bliz?
Also anything that i mentioned on the list

---------------

I'm sure there's programmers here that have dedicated their life to coding that would disagree with you as well. As I am one of them.
Even the staff will admit that 64bit doesn't increase performance, as there's a few threads where they've stated it themselves.

That's such nonsense that people would believe that I don't even understand how this myth got started, it makes no sense at all. Lol.
Serious question, like I said I'm not trolling, I'm just curious: Do you even know what 64bit means for programs? Or what it even does to a program? Because it has nothing to do with a program's performance.

This video will explain everything (clicky)!
Also:

Overall, to most end users.. The main difference between 32 bit and 64 bit, is the memory accessability.

32 bit period, has a limitation on how much memory is can address.

64 bit doesnt have this limit (well, it does have a limit, but its higher than just about anyone would ever use on a personal machine ).

So the major difference.. is that wow itself, will be able to potentialy access more of your systems memory, if its available. So on machines which have more memory installed (6, 8,12g, etc), you would likely see a slight performance increase from this.

Please don't limit us

---------------

As someone else said on this thread, Honorbuddy isn't the only bot or 'exploit tool' in existence.
There's hacks and other bots out there that already use 64bit. Blizzard wouldn't prioritize 32bit detection because that would be counter-intuitive to their detection methods.
Why would they focus on 32bit when they have better detection methods that can detect both 32bit and 64bit at the same time?

Blizzard isn't that foolish to rely on simple detection methods such as the bit architecture.
As EchoTiger said:
"They're a Triple-A gaming business. Their multi-million dollar anti-hack team not only knows more about detection than just scanning the client's bit, but they also have a lot more reliable ways of detecting bots. Scanning client bit numbers would be scraping the bottom of the barrel for them and surely they're not that pathetic to resort to it. There's a lot easier ways to detect Honorbuddy than checking a client's bit numbers that people should be worrying more about..."

Haking is something, and Automation is something else . HB doesn't allow Hax! (that's what i know?)
There is no bots that is currently working on 64bit. only haks..
And another CR rotation program, it used to be 32&64. Not anymore tho.

Have you been affected at all by the recent Honorbuddy tripwire

No. Additionally, Honorbuddy is 32 bit, we are on 64. 32 bit warden gets updated pretty regularly.

----------------

That could potentially be a good idea, but you have to consider the backlash.
People will get really mad over this, and it wouldn't be good for the company.

People will stop using Honorbuddy and will resort to calling the developers greedy.

People who will say about HB that they are greedy, doesn't deserve to use the bot

 

[Z]

I and I'm sure most other users dont mind paying a subscription IF we got more then what we get now..

I think the price we pay once of is fine for what we get "out of the bot"

however if they went to sub only- things would need to change such as:
Dungeon buddy- Would need to be support officially and raid scripts for LFR would need to be up to date (as in a few weeks after release).
A 64bit version of the bot would need to be developed (For performance reasons of WOW- nothing more) .
A Combat only (lite) version of HB would need to be included- basically a CR only optimized bot (much like SBR) however standard CRS for HB will work with it.
Store commissions of 40% would need to be reduced to 10-15% - and devs would need to bring there product prices down to reflect (HB would be getting the money from subs as well)
Support would need to improve.. Beyond "how to post a log" followed by the clean install processed"

Lite HB for CR's only would be amazing!!

Thank you!

 

[Nightcrawler12]

Finally, a decent thread.

HB knows what we want, they know we are willing to pay for it; yet they refuse to do it; #letsbehappywithwhatwehavelads

 

[Craptuna0813]

First off I have gone through over the years and seen the same issues over and over. Night is right when it comes to HB. They don't care about the user they will do what they wish and how they do it. Take this xpack for example in mop and cata when I botted everything was scripted in a timely manor here in WOD we are almost at the end and all the lfr's haven't even been touched and it took forever to get the second half of the last set to finally be done so you see people have been saying for a long time can you please finish all the current progress but instead they limit their support and give out common or repetitive answers as to why its not done. I have posted for awhile now about performance issues with the 32 bit to the 64 bit. For you that say its not much of a difference you are wrong. I bought a new gaming laptop and yes I know laptops suck for gaming but this one doesn't has better specs to game then a lot of gaming desktops. Anyways on the 32 bit platform I have major issues with my navigation with my mouse and when I change it to 64 its gone. For those who are going to say its a user issue its not. I even changed mice to see if it was a wireless issue or drivers and its not everything is up to date and works great outside of 32 bit wow. I posted it just to get it thrown back in my face saying its false info and thread deleted. This is a example of how much HB cares about what you think. I love that you want to improve HB by offering ideas and well put statements but bottom line is that HB doesn't care. They chased developers away with bad contracts and made it very hard for casual wow players to even bot for fun. Due to the massive bann rates and lack of changes made to evolve the bot. To me the only change that needs to happen is the way we attach to wow if that were to change then maybe we could buy HB more time to not get banned. Who knows maybe blizz had the way to find us all along but didn't care till they came with other games to make up for the loss of income from us. Myself would love to stick around and bot for a few more years but as I age and loose more accounts I notice the lack of care that HB gives us compaired to the many changes blizz makes. Have you even wondered why None of HB staff even care to comment about these idea's? Its because they don't care and they wont. Blizz has more money and more big brains to throw at finding us maybe Hb has given up or knows they have made all the money they could at these bots and knows when to tuck tail between leg and run. before they loose everything they had fought to make as a profit. Think about it court cost are not cheap nor are lawyers this could end up in the hundreds of thousands of dollars when the dust settles. Maybe HB doesn't want to loose that kind of money. So sit back enjoy what we have because I'm sure their is going to come a day when its all gone and that some day will be sooner not later. Good luck fellow botters and see you on the flip side of the next bann wave.

 

[raphus]

- New navigation/path system that will randomize for each bot.

This is already done in BGBuddy and Dungeonbuddy.

Randomization is not easy task. As someone mentioned earlier, the more you randomize the paths, the more error prone the bot becomes. Bot also starts taking weird paths which makes it less human like.

That's why it is only done in specific cases where bot trains are possible for now.

- Enhance the tripwire.. example: It'll shutdown the bot instantly. not after 5hrs

Tripwire shuts down the bot instantly once it detects a change. The Tripwire system is the best in the market and is being continuously improved.

You can easily see that by us being the only ones that knows how the latest detections are working and where they actually are.

- A 64bit version (i know it doesn't matter, but why make it easy for blizz to catch us? 95% of wow players if not more are using the 64bit version of wow. squeeze us(botters) between them) + performance

This will be my final statement regarding 64bit phenomena.

Performance wise, an 64b HB will not have better performance then 32b version. Rather, it will have more memory usage around 15%-30%. 64b performance only shines when you have a compute intensive application like image processing and such.

Detection wise, we have confirmed the latest detection methods are already in place for 64b WoW client aswell. Blizzard just doesn't have the will to enable it. It seems like they only care about us right now. Once we do a 64b version, they will start pushing detections to 64b client aswell.

- Prevent gold sellers from abusing this bot, mess wow economy and make it target #1 on blizz eyes! maybe make another edition of the bot with sub. Yes let them pay if they want to bot suicidal 24/7.

Sorry but we are running a business here. What you are saying is like asking Nike to stop selling Airs to Afro-Americans.

- A way to support the bot? sub for new customers maybe?

You can always buy new licenses to support us

- New builtin tool that will mimic the behavior of your character. example: it can record your DPS rotation, how many times you jump. it will act as if it was you.

I can't really see any use of this. Especially in the core.

- More features in bot settings?, like Sound on whisper/stuck, logout on too many Ganks, jump from time to time..etc! (most of us are not programmers)

That's the reason we have an open API. We can't really fulfill every request. Afaik there are already some plugins that does what you ask.

 

[Thecamel]

This is already done in BGBuddy and Dungeonbuddy.

Randomization is not easy task. As someone mentioned earlier, the more you randomize the paths, the more error prone the bot becomes. Bot also starts taking weird paths which makes it less human like.

That's why it is only done in specific cases where bot trains are possible for now.



Tripwire shuts down the bot instantly once it detects a change. The Tripwire system is the best in the market and is being continuously improved.

You can easily see that by us being the only ones that knows how the latest detections are working and where they actually are.



This will be my final statement regarding 64bit phenomena.

Performance wise, an 64b HB will not have better performance then 32b version. Rather, it will have more memory usage around 15%-30%. 64b performance only shines when you have a compute intensive application like image processing and such.

Detection wise, we have confirmed the latest detection methods are already in place for 64b WoW client aswell. Blizzard just doesn't have the will to enable it. It seems like they only care about us right now. Once we do a 64b version, they will start pushing detections to 64b client aswell.



Sorry but we are running a business here. What you are saying is like asking Nike to stop selling Airs to Afro-Americans.



You can always buy new licenses to support us



I can't really see any use of this. Especially in the core.



That's the reason we have an open API. We can't really fulfill every request. Afaik there are already some plugins that does what you ask.

I just have one grief with that raphus... the rest I agree with..

What about us users that want to run WOW in 64 bit for the performance increase it gives us..

When I raid- I raid @4k and I like my 120fps - I can only achieve this running wow in 64bit.. (nothing to do with HB)..

Right now this is the only reason I'm using a competitors solution for my DPS rotation when I raid.. (I use HB for everything else).

I would be willing to pay again for bot that support wow in 64- just for that reason..

I dont care about the detection side of things.. as you said as soon as you change so will blizzarad

edit... No I'm not talking about the performance increase of HB.. I'm talking about wow its self.. and there is plenty of evidence that supports wow running better in a ture 64bit environment.. I can youtube to show you if you like

 

[raphus]

It would take us 2 to 3 months to re-reverse 64b WoW. Then another 1 to 2 months for testing and stabilizing. And there would be no bug fixes or new features being done on the 32b version during that time.

I don't even consider maintaining two versions along with big patches or expansions.

That's why we have always stated that we won't be working on a 64b version unless we have to.

 

[Nightcrawler12]

It would take us 2 to 3 months to re-reverse 64b WoW. Then another 1 to 2 months for testing and stabilizing. And there would be no bug fixes or new features being done on the 32b version during that time.

I don't even consider maintaining two versions along with big patches or expansions.

That's why we have always stated that we won't be working on a 64b version unless we have to.

How about this; Why don't you do a poll or something similar wherein some users can pledge/pay for a special product either as a monthly fee or a lump sum payment as so you guys can hire who you need while actually making decent money.

 

[nuhll]

Its so simple:

1.) You say if we implement random movements, it will get stuck. JUST save these stucks and the behaivior to get out of it! And share it between HB users.

In the start there will be some stucks, but the crowd will make to bot so much better and more human... (and it would fuck all c r a c k ed HB versions )

2.) For 64Bit:
You have no choice, you need to make it, sooner or later!

You could hire a new programmer, just for 64bit and sell it as a extra...

(i think a normal programmer can convert 32 to 64bit?)

3.) What about stop the bot to be stupid?
Block MOUNT, HEAL, BUFF, MOUNT, HEAL and such things. (shouldnt be hard to implement. If mounted dont do anything except running for atleast 3-10sec)

Make HB "random" "slower" (target switching) and such things...

include a small KI for talking and if its only hi and hello...or ups and sorry.

Block "clicks 20 times on quest giver and nothing happens". I think you guys know what i mean. It shouldnt stop! But it could ATLEAST wait longer.

Disable Mouse moving, srsrly is there any player who uses it? - or atleast an option to disable it.

Make us able to use mixed mode in questing (i know it could happen that quests fail, simple make the bot start the quest again, its no magic... )

Stop Bot from dismounting unnecessary... (when it talks to quest givers e.g.)


When bot equips new equipment, it could look at the new items (press c) for some time, sometimes.

We need more options to use the bot like a real player

Edit:
before flame starts, ofc all stucks and ways to unstuck should be reported a few times from different HB clients to get added to the DB) - like a bitcoin transaction.

 

[pimpampum]

Detection wise, we have confirmed the latest detection methods are already in place for 64b WoW client aswell. Blizzard just doesn't have the will to enable it. It seems like they only care about us right now. Once we do a 64b version, they will start pushing detections to 64b client aswell.

That makes plenty of sense. Thanks for the information.

The question that comes to mind is, perhaps the reason they don't enable 64b detection is resource usage? I mean, it would take much more computing power analyzing 95% of warden reports coming from a 64b clients, than 5% coming from 32 bit ones, is it right? So, wouldn't placing HB in a 5 million pool instead of a 300k pool to avoid indirect detection be an interesting measure?

At the end, it all comes that it will be ,eventually, necessary for Hb to go 64. And it will take 2 -3 months to re-reverse the client then, too. Better to do that at a gaming timeout like the current one, than at a busier time.

Granted, other bots will copy a lot of your 64b code. But you've gotta live with that, given that Hb is the leader of the wow-bot market .

 

[UnderratedPost]

T
Detection wise, we have confirmed the latest detection methods are already in place for 64b WoW client aswell. Blizzard just doesn't have the will to enable it. It seems like they only care about us right now. Once we do a 64b version, they will start pushing detections to 64b client aswell.

i dont doubt what you say but there is a well known 64b hack that was recently detected for the first time which from what i read was aimed specifically at them. maybe they didnt enable newer 64b detections yet because they didnt need to?

the only thing you can say is that no bot now has a 100% safety record, so you have to make a choice on who you trust and it is so obvious the buddy team are a step ahead of everyone else so I know who I choose

i'm happy you guys proved the doom merchants and naysayers wrong!!

 

[anubite]

Does Blizzard have detection methods in place for Mac side of things? Like does warden scan or target mac users or just pcs? Just curious.

 

[Azhemoth]

Does Blizzard have detection methods in place for Mac side of things? Like does warden scan or target mac users or just pcs? Just curious.

Yes. It scans absolutely everything. Hence why a 64bit bot won't be anymore safer than a 32bit bot.
Even the public API has functions to return whether or not the user is using Windows, Mac or Linux.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/API_IsLinuxClient
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/API_IsMacClient
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/API_IsWindowsClient

 

[Nightcrawler12]

Its so simple:

1.) You say if we implement random movements, it will get stuck. JUST save these stucks and the behaivior to get out of it! And share it between HB users.

In the start there will be some stucks, but the crowd will make to bot so much better and more human... (and it would fuck all c r a c k ed HB versions )

2.) For 64Bit:
You have no choice, you need to make it, sooner or later!

You could hire a new programmer, just for 64bit and sell it as a extra...

(i think a normal programmer can convert 32 to 64bit?)

3.) What about stop the bot to be stupid?
Block MOUNT, HEAL, BUFF, MOUNT, HEAL and such things. (shouldnt be hard to implement. If mounted dont do anything except running for atleast 3-10sec)

Make HB "random" "slower" (target switching) and such things...

include a small KI for talking and if its only hi and hello...or ups and sorry.

Block "clicks 20 times on quest giver and nothing happens". I think you guys know what i mean. It shouldnt stop! But it could ATLEAST wait longer.

Disable Mouse moving, srsrly is there any player who uses it? - or atleast an option to disable it.

Make us able to use mixed mode in questing (i know it could happen that quests fail, simple make the bot start the quest again, its no magic... )

Stop Bot from dismounting unnecessary... (when it talks to quest givers e.g.)


When bot equips new equipment, it could look at the new items (press c) for some time, sometimes.

We need more options to use the bot like a real player

Edit:
before flame starts, ofc all stucks and ways to unstuck should be reported a few times from different HB clients to get added to the DB) - like a bitcoin transaction.

King of the ******.

I pray for raphus and the whole HB team; they know what we want; take the plunge.

Charge us all $20/month, re-make the entire bot, make it HBv2.0.

 

[UnderratedPost]

King of the ******.

I pray for raphus and the whole HB team; they know what we want; take the plunge.

Charge us all $20/month, re-make the entire bot, make it HBv2.0.

remake the entire bot? are you crazy? its the best bot on the market by far why would they remake it, or did you never hear the phrase "if it aint broke dont fix it"

 

[Azhemoth]

Charge us all $20/month, re-make the entire bot, make it HBv2.0.

We're already on HBv2.0

This was Honorbuddy v1

 

[anubite]

Thanks Azhemoth for clearing up the mac question, could never find anything solid warden scans actively mac comps I use SBR mac on my main so hopefully won't get shoot down when 64bit gets hit which it will only a matter of time. That's the theory


I'd like an subscription fee added also to help improve income, but then things will need to be done a lot quicker/better like lfr scripts, combat bot for free should be better but then again devs for third party addons can lower prices since HB won't need to put that much markup on their products. As for 64bit, there is no point as far for protection go it will just be as detectable as 32bit if blizzard puts the effort into it. For a performance point of view I'm not sure I'm not that computer skilled.

Also if HB were to put a fee on current lifetime keys, should be discounted once you go over like 3 keys and so on since a few of us have a lot of accounts and keys so yeah maybe $15 a month for 1 key, $14 two keys, $13 3 keys, $12 for 4, and maybe $10 for 4+ licenses for the lot.

I'm not saying that is right but yeah should make it cheaper for people that have brought multiple keys since they've spent a lot more money upfront.

 

[UnderratedPost]

Thanks Azhemoth for clearing up the mac question, could never find anything solid warden scans actively mac comps I use SBR mac on my main so hopefully won't get shoot down when 64bit gets hit which it will only a matter of time. That's the theory


I'd like an subscription fee added also to help improve income, but then things will need to be done a lot quicker/better like lfr scripts, combat bot for free should be better but then again devs for third party addons can lower prices since HB won't need to put that much markup on their products. As for 64bit, there is no point as far for protection go it will just be as detectable as 32bit if blizzard puts the effort into it. For a performance point of view I'm not sure I'm not that computer skilled.

Also if HB were to put a fee on current lifetime keys, should be discounted once you go over like 3 keys and so on since a few of us have a lot of accounts and keys so yeah maybe $15 a month for 1 key, $14 two keys, $13 3 keys, $12 for 4, and maybe $10 for 4+ licenses for the lot.

I'm not saying that is right but yeah should make it cheaper for people that have brought multiple keys since they've spent a lot more money upfront.

that sounds very fair

do it guys!!!

 

[Mr McGibblets]

Much like Raphus said, if they want to target a 64bit bot they will. There was a mostly custom rotations only bot that was 64bit. It was all the rage and was proud of the fact that it was a 64bit and untouchable. This bot was targeted and 100% shut down in a full ban wave. This was two years ago, prior to blizzard stepping up their detection game. It does not matter which bit you are using as to whether or not blizzard is willing to target them. Especially when it comes to honorbuddy, an ungodly amount of blizzards focus is on this bot.

Edit: Also since many of the people who use this forum don't care enough to read or post. I am against the concept of shutting down development of the current bot for the projected 3-6+ months to make a 64 bit version. Then have to repay for the bot, only to have slightly better performance during raids on a 64bit-wow. No thank you.