[Official] Statement about Arenas and Battlegrounds

[AnoneeMouse]

TLDR

PS. You seem angry. Are you? I pride myself on reading people.

>TL;DR's post.
>Prides himself on reading people.
>"U mad" poster fancies himself clever.

I understand, though. Illiteracy is a real problem these days.

 

[V1R4G3]

>TL;DR's post.
>Prides himself on reading people.
>"U mad" poster fancies himself clever.

I understand, though. Illiteracy is a real problem these days.

I can read. I just haven't deemed you worthy of having your long winded posts read by these eyes. And then there is the obvious, your join date is indicative of having joined specifically to whine about the changes or you're a new account from someone having been banned. So yes, nothing you say is getting taken seriously, be glad I took time out of my busy schedule (read SHEH-dule) to tell you that you're wrong, and it goes without saying YHBT.

So, keep freaking out, this is fun. You have about as much chance of proving your point valid as you do using Honorbuddy in Arena. If you don't mind, I've got a bot that still does everything I want it to do to get back to using. Ta ta.

 

[AnoneeMouse]

I can read. I just haven't deemed you worthy of having your long winded posts read by these eyes.

But I'm apparently worth your responses. It's always amusing when someone puts effort into declaring his or her apathy. If you didn't care about what I had to say, you wouldn't waste the time and thought (albeit, there isn't much) replying to my posts. Ultimately, it's just a transparent and vain effort to save face. It's like it doesn't matter how ridiculous you look, if you claim that it doesn't affect you. But here's some words of advice: Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

And then there is the obvious, your join date is indicative of having joined specifically to whine about the changes or you're a new account from someone having been banned.

So in the absence of a coherent rebuttal, you lean on ad hominem? The irony is that appealing to join date doesn't really work in your favour. You're being rebutted by a genuine newbie, bud.

If you don't mind, I've got a bot that still does everything I want it to do to get back to using. Ta ta.

You know, if you spent less time projecting your frustration and insecurities, but more time actually reading the posts you're trying to discredit, you'd know that I actually have no qualms about Honorbuddy no longer supporting arenas. I've explicitly stated a couple of times now that this isn't a point of contention for me. But I shouldn't be so hard on you. Clearly the education system failed you, growing up. Assuming you're out of early schooling, of course. That's something of a dubious proposition in its own respect.

 

[tomcruise]

I can read. I just haven't deemed you worthy of having your long winded posts read by these eyes.

*tips fedora*

 

[Goshinki]

TLDR

PS. You seem angry. Are you? I pride myself on reading people.

You seem like a complete moron who keeps spamming. Please sit down. You haven't added anything to this thread and have been proved wrong multiple times.

 

[thenorthface]

So... Can we get our $ back from the CR's?

 

[Fahoods]

some ppl bought this bot only for arena nothing els .. and spend a lot of money on pvp arena profiles and now u guys close it... I hope and I hope u guys make it open its a bot...... u alrdy cheating anyway ..?|!!! since u lvl or farming or pvping .. why u close it that just make no sence ! like rly ... there is a sites selling rating and titls so all the ppl r cheating ! and some of ppl well quit this game cuz u close the arena !


atlest make a refund for the ppl they payed a lot for the profiles and the bot .... cuz u guys allowed it ... then u close it ....... this bot should work on everything .. not closing 1 side .. arena ! and everything els its working ! well its not fair for pvp players !

then close for the raidbot..partybot...farming...lvling................. make Some senceeeeeeeeeeee !

 

[matt84]

Oh. Oh, man. Really? I totally had no idea. This changes everything.

Sorry, but it wasn't clever. This is why I asked if you habitually post meaningless rhetoric. Evidently, you do. You're still ignoring the fact that they knowingly distributed it and even profited directly from it. To reiterate, this is paramount to arguing that a drug dealer doesn't support drug use, because he didn't manufacture the drugs. It's nonsense, plain and simple. Whether you want to accept it or not, the Honorbuddy team advocated the use of the software they distributed and profited from. Knowingly harbouring content means that one advocates its use. The only one with egg on his (or her) face is the one who wants to deny this basic reality because it harms his completely polarized stance. Which is odd, because I actually support developer control over their own software and by all rights we should be in agreement.

Ultimately, the best way to respond to meaningless flippancy is to treat it as genuine, and expose it for the absurdity it is. Pity that I overlooked that opportunity.

nope, I gotta disagree with the point you keep making about drug dealers

one of my RL friends used to deal drugs, he hated drugs, he hated people who used the drugs, he thought drug use was scum but he looked at is as a business and providing a service, if they weren't buying off him, they would buy from somewhere else and he needed a lot of cash fast to get himself out of trouble so he did it as a means to an end, after he was done making the money he needed / wanted he stopped selling drugs and maintained his stance on them.

so just because he allowed himself to sell drugs, did not mean he supported use of them, hell one time I wanted to buy an 8 ball off him and he flat out refused me because he wasn't going to sell that shit to his friends and told me to find someone else if I wanted shit to party with.

 

[Goshinki]

nope, I gotta disagree with the point you keep making about drug dealers

one of my RL friends used to deal drugs, he hated drugs, he hated people who used the drugs, he thought drug use was scum but he looked at is as a business and providing a service, if they weren't buying off him, they would buy from somewhere else and he needed a lot of cash fast to get himself out of trouble so he did it as a means to an end, after he was done making the money he needed / wanted he stopped selling drugs and maintained his stance on them.

so just because he allowed himself to sell drugs, did not mean he supported use of them, hell one time I wanted to buy an 8 ball off him and he flat out refused me because he wasn't going to sell that shit to his friends and told me to find someone else if I wanted shit to party with.

Ideologically agreeing with something and supporting it are completely different.


Your friend supported drugs and drug users. Look up the damn definition.

 

[CimmerianRage]

I'm genuinely confused by Bossland's motives for this. Granted, I didn't read 477 posts of mewling and venom spitting, but the few I did glance over seemed to make some sense. What is the goal here? To make the Warcraft Community "less mad" by not allowing users to cheat at -every- aspect of the game? That hardly seems likely or logical. Botting other areas is still cheating, and will still be pursued, and accounts will still be banned, and we will -still- be hated for what we do. So what changes?

Really, I'm curious. I don't Arena, and have nothing invested in the decision one way or another. I wonder though, what does Bossland hope to gain from this? Placating blizzard enough to reduce pressure on the bot? Maybe lessen the impact on the wow community enough to stymy their hatred of us for what we do? Not likely in any account. None of this is going to happen, we well know. This seems like blood in the water to me, with bossland thrashing about trying to come up with a solution to a problem based off a fear reaction rather than a well thought out rational one.

Not supporting and removing access are two completely things. While Bossland never have actively supported Arena use, they are now specifically prohibiting it, which seems like a fine way to alienate and bleed off customer base. Despite what those of you holier-than-thou people who blame pvp botters for the recent banwave would like to think. Arena is not the -sole- reason blizzard banned, or even pursued accounts using HB. So get over yourself.

Botters thumb their noses at the rules every time they load up and go to work on a game, what makes bossland believe that the community would appreciate or abide by an imposed prohibition on its bots use? All I see is someone looking for a work around, and/or PvP subs drying up and moving on to someone else. Where is the effective money making strategy there Bossland? I don't see it.

Now having said all this, please proceed to tell me I'm wrong because I'm stupid, and a noob because of recent join date. That way I can laugh at your lack of any real substantive rebuttal, and point out your foolishness. Again, I don't PvP bot, but I can't find a good rationale for this decision so I question it.

 

[AnoneeMouse]

so just because he allowed himself to sell drugs

This has got to be the most hilarious apologia I have ever read. Complex decisions like this are not autonomous, and rephrasing it to say he "allowed it to happen" is intellectually dishonest. Just as Goshinki has aptly noted, regardless of whether or not your friend was guiltless in his transgressions, he still directly facilitated drug use by distributing them. His attempts to rationalize this action also fall flat. Just because you performed an action out of necessity doesn't negate the fact that you still performed that action. The logic that "It would happen anyway," is also faulty. If X number of people sell drugs, X+1 is still a larger degree of accessibility and support. Your friend was the +1. That's all there is to it. For the sake of your friend, though, I would strongly advise against using him as an example in the future, even if he remains nameless. Especially for such a trivial discussion.

 

[matt84]

This has got to be the most hilarious apologia I have ever read. Complex decisions like this are not autonomous, and rephrasing it to say he "allowed it to happen" is intellectually dishonest. Just as Goshinki has aptly noted, regardless of whether or not your friend was guiltless in his transgressions, he still directly facilitated drug use by distributing them. His attempts to rationalize this action also fall flat. Just because you performed an action out of necessity doesn't negate the fact that you still performed that action. The logic that "It would happen anyway," is also faulty. If X number of people sell drugs, X+1 is still a larger degree of accessibility and support. Your friend was the +1. That's all there is to it. For the sake of your friend, though, I would strongly advise against using him as an example in the future, even if he remains nameless. Especially for such a trivial discussion.

no you're disproven, just because you do something does not mean you support it in it's entirety

the fact is he did not support drugs or drug use or the people he was selling them too, he didnt give them free drugs etc... to support their habbit, he was a conduit between the supplier and the user, regardless of how you feel about the situation.

it has nothing todo with morals, he knew selling drugs was bad (buddy team did not know they were gonna shut down arena until they decided to do it), he knew there would be consequences for his actions (buddy team did not think that allowing the sale of PvP CR's on the Auction house which included and boasted Arena support was going to be a problem due to the fact that there was no problem at the time) , but he did it anyway (they allowed the sale of PvP CR's with arena support because it did not cause them any drama... any support issues that were opened about arena were closed down or redirected because they DID NOT officially support Arena in any capacity)

and that's what it comes down too...

They did not Official Support Arena in any capacity, other than having a store which sold PvP Routines... take not in the store, it's not a special section for "Arena" it's PvP.
The CR creators boasted high arena rankings etc... Buddystore never supported or boasted this same feat.
The routines are still functioning, only arena isnt.
They are not liable here, Even the Featurelist said PvP not "Arena" and PvP still works, just not the PvP you want.

You can allow something to happen without supporting it.

 

[matt84]

Ideologically agreeing with something and supporting it are completely different.


Your friend supported drugs and drug users. Look up the damn definition.

Sorry, but supporting them would have been giving them money for their habbit or giving them free product....

He provided a service a go between for the supplier and the user.

 

[matt84]

Again, I don't PvP bot, but I can't find a good rationale for this decision so I question it.

Nothing to question.

It's Bosslands Product / He made a decision.

At the end of the day that's all there is too it.

He removed access to a function he never supported for whatever the reason, Show me where it said you have lifetime Arena support.

 

[AnoneeMouse]

no you're disproven, just because you do something does not mean you support it in it's entirety

How am I disproven? The assertion I'm rebutting is that the Honorbuddy team never supported botting in arenas. Your whole "Well, they technically didn't do so in every possible fashion," diatribe doesn't invalidate the point that they clearly did, in a mechanical fashion. Whether or not they did so begrudgingly or in spite of contrary ideals is an entirely moot point. You can't knowingly aid in an outcome coming about, and then claim that you didn't support that outcome. It's simply absurd. Misrepresenting knowledgeable compliance and network investment as "allowing something to happen" is equally ridiculous, if not more so.

it has nothing todo with morals

Of course it has nothing to do with morals. I explicitly stated that my analogy should not be taken as a comparison of ethicacy. I put a disclaimer there specifically so an individual like yourself wouldn't try to straw man my argument. All of my points have been a mechanical analysis, in full. So I'm not entirely sure why you're arguing this, when I've made no claims to the contrary.

They are not liable here

I didn't say they are. This is the third time now that I am explaining this: I'm perfectly fine with the Honorbuddy developers dictating how their own software is designed. People who don't agree with its direction can simply opt from using it. Actually read my posts before attempting to contest them, please. Every time you argue with someone without reading their posts, a kitten breaks its neck.

You can allow something to happen without supporting it.

But this reiterated mantra is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the intellectual dishonesty, and overall ignorance about the situation. Content on the store is vetted and approved, and generates profit. You can't say you disapproved of something you explicitly approved of. That's some serious double-think. It's also completely absurd to claim ignorance on something that generates profit for you, as a business. It's perfectly fine to change the direction of your own product. Though I do think that the window for refunds should be extended, given the nature of this change: Otherwise it kind of does look like a bait and switch (Not that I'm seeking a refund, personally). I'm not contesting the capacity for the honorbuddy devs to disable arena support. I'm just pointing out the fact that claiming it was never supported to begin with is a demonstrable lie.

 

[matt84]

But this reiterated mantra just shows how ignorant you are to the situation. Content on the store is vetted and approved, and generates profit. You're appealing to ignorance, but there is none. They knowingly harboured the content. Claiming otherwise is a demonstrable lie.

See, you're taking it out of context, Items on the store are checked for malicious code against the end user. Considering any code pertaining to arena was not considered malicious there is no reason why it would have not been approved for store sale. They still never officially supported arena in any capacity outside of allowing PvP routines with support for it on the store which wasnt against their ToS at that point in time. the big thing to note here again are that regardless of reasons for the user purchasing the item they were PvP routines, even gladiator suite has a PvE section (On this note, let's say some people were using gladiator suite for combat botting while raiding. if they had of removed in raid combat bot use.. would that also mean that they are wrong for letting people sell raid optimized routines?) It's all a chance and can all come tumbling down at anytime, anyone who thinks differently is highly mistaken.

They obviously had a damn good reason for stopping the use of the bot in arena and thats good enough for me. Personally i wont return to using HB for my own reasons regardless (and it has nothing todo with PvP i only ever used it for garrisons and combat bot / questing) but even if things that i had used got removed i wouldnt be so butthurt about it because i still got to use the product for months before hand.

 

[AnoneeMouse]

See, you're taking it out of context, Items on the store are checked for malicious code against the end user. Considering any code pertaining to arena was not considered malicious there is no reason why it would have not been approved for store sale.

BosslandGmbH:Getting Products Accepted to the Buddy Store - The Buddy Wiki

We're done, though. This discussion is fruitless, and I'm finished addressing faulty rhetoric as though it had merit.

(On this note, let's say some people were using gladiator suite for combat botting while raiding. if they had of removed in raid combat bot use.. would that also mean that they are wrong for letting people sell raid optimized routines?)

Because you are repeatedly misrepresenting my stance, and clearly not reading what I've posted.

 

[matt84]

BosslandGmbH:Getting Products Accepted to the Buddy Store - The Buddy Wiki

We're done, though. This discussion is fruitless, and I'm finished addressing faulty rhetoric as though it had merit.

that specifically says disallowed?

 

[AnoneeMouse]

that specifically says disallowed?

Yes, and? Does this somehow invalidate their actions?

 

[matt84]

Yes, and? Does this somehow invalidate their actions?

yes because it was updated 25th of may to reflect the changes.