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CLU (Codified Likeness Utility) - (Pt. 2)

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Stormchasing said:
1. Haunt uptime should be (in every case) around 60-100%, with your suggestion it would / could drop below 50%, so no!
2. Dots are updated in realtime, no need to recast them, if the procc is up, dots are updated for the next tick, if procc fades, dots are updated (update=wow calcs the new damage values), so no need to recast them, no dps gain.
3. this is correct and i will change it
4. have to test this ... never had this issue, but tested last time... weeks ago
Click to expand...

1. Using haunt uptime% as an absolute figure is useless if it isn't 100%. The haunt dmg modifier only matters in reference to the dots and their boosted dmg during that time (see 2. on procs).
2. This is quite incorrect!!! Dot dmg modifier from procs isn't updated by the proc event comming/fading. Dot dmg modifier from proc is updated @application on target.
3. Terrorfiend/Doomguard is just an offensive CD and should be used accordingly. It might be OK to use it during the execution phase or it might not. If something "auto" is needed here then it
is best to pop TF/DG after BL/Heroism goes off. Aligning TF/DG with procs or :Misery at other times is also a given.
4. Seen some delays here and there but more importantly the CC just stops sometimes during SOC spams, switches
between SB:SS/SB:SOC etc.

Remarks:
Contrary to a lot of other CCs the AffliLock CC shouldn't be concerned with "speed" and "uptime%" but rather with making sure everything is correctly aligned!
procs->Pandemic safe dots->haunt->MG->Profit! High dps on an AffliLock isn't achieved by throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the target like some
other classes.

Since 5.1, FelFlame should NOT be used anymore when moving, except in very specific circumstances where movement speed is an issue (some HOF bosses) or
when fast direct dmg is more important then mana (Eg. Elegon sparks). The KJC talent is now virtually mandatory to obtain max dps.

SB:SS, Agony & Corruption only need LOS and need NOT to be "safelyfacing". Casts of Haunt and UA only need to be "safelyfacing" when ending the cast while
on the move, MG/DS only need to be "safelyfacing" when starting the cast. All other behavior including the use of FF during movement might be OK for a lot of
things (questing/grinding/LFR) but should not be used around ppl. that actually play locks manually :)

If you guys need help with CC/testing/light programming around Affli Locks pls. let me know.
 
Kikeron said:
You are wrong on point 1 and 2.

1. Haunt should be cast like Gwenstefanii said. There is no "should" in up time. You cast it to avoid over capping shards and on procs
2. This is really wrong. Dots do NOT adapt themselves to new stat values. This applies only to pets. You MUST recast the dots especially when into the Pandemic window. If you do not implent it that way, your affli CC will do much less damage.
Click to expand...

you are wrong ... or point me to your source ... since 2011 You don't need to recast DoTs to take advantage of procs anymore. The game checks for stat changes and procs on every tick.

And NO again, since u will have proccs for Haunt all the time, u don't need to check for shards, u can't cap them if u don't go into Drain Soul phasis, so u will waste a lot of uptime by waiting for proccs.

but all in all it does not matter ... cause if we want to support this behavior, we have to track all stats at the time a specific spell was casted, compare them with the current stats / proccs and recast if needed, this is far too much work for a CR that changed from raid focus to all-in-one
 
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Dleihsteam said:
1. Using haunt uptime% as an absolute figure is useless if it isn't 100%. The haunt dmg modifier only matters in reference to the dots and their boosted dmg during that time (see 2. on procs).
2. This is quite incorrect!!! Dot dmg modifier from procs isn't updated by the proc event comming/fading. Dot dmg modifier from proc is updated @application on target.
3. Terrorfiend/Doomguard is just an offensive CD and should be used accordingly. It might be OK to use it during the execution phase or it might not. If something "auto" is needed here then it
is best to pop TF/DG after BL/Heroism goes off. Aligning TF/DG with procs or :Misery at other times is also a given.
4. Seen some delays here and there but more importantly the CC just stops sometimes during SOC spams, switches
between SB:SS/SB:SOC etc.

Remarks:
Contrary to a lot of other CCs the AffliLock CC shouldn't be concerned with "speed" and "uptime%" but rather with making sure everything is correctly aligned!
procs->Pandemic safe dots->haunt->MG->Profit! High dps on an AffliLock isn't achieved by throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the target like some
other classes.

Since 5.1, FelFlame should NOT be used anymore when moving, except in very specific circumstances where movement speed is an issue (some HOF bosses) or
when fast direct dmg is more important then mana (Eg. Elegon sparks). The KJC talent is now virtually mandatory to obtain max dps.

SB:SS, Agony & Corruption only need LOS and need NOT to be "safelyfacing". Casts of Haunt and UA only need to be "safelyfacing" when ending the cast while
on the move, MG/DS only need to be "safelyfacing" when starting the cast. All other behavior including the use of FF during movement might be OK for a lot of
things (questing/grinding/LFR) but should not be used around ppl. that actually play locks manually :)

If you guys need help with CC/testing/light programming around Affli Locks pls. let me know.
Click to expand...

the facing shouldn't be a problem atm, cause you are talking bout the raiding environment .. where you control the movement, for all the other situations (quest/grind) it is okay to have to done before each cast.

thanks for your hints, i'll take some of the ideas (if possible) and adapt them into another CR and compare it with the current rotation from CLU (after removing the obvious issues (Fel Flame, delays, stopping during SOC spams / switching of SB:SS / SB:SOC)
 
Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Mists Edition - Elitist Jerks

"Generally you want to save soul shards for when you have Dark Soul (or an other big cd) up, without ever wasting a nightfall proc.
You will use SB:SS to get your DoT's rolling at the beginning of the fight and to refresh your DoT's anytime a "Big" proc/cd is used and just before it ends. Also, during execute SB:SS is used to refresh your DoT's always as we have a surplus of shards.

Haunt is used when we have 4 shards (so as to not waste nightfall procs). when we have more powerful DoT's active (as a result of being refreshed during a proc). and to keep the haunt debuff ~100% uptime during execute."
 
Stormchasing said:
you are wrong ... or point me to your source ... since 2011 You don't need to recast DoTs to take advantage of procs anymore. The game checks for stat changes and procs on every tick.

And NO again, since u will have proccs for Haunt all the time, u don't need to check for shards, u can't cap them if u don't go into Drain Soul phasis, so u will waste a lot of uptime by waiting for proccs.

but all in all it does not matter ... cause if we want to support this behavior, we have to track all stats at the time a specific spell was casted, compare them with the current stats / proccs and recast if needed, this is far too much work for a CR that changed from raid focus to all-in-one
Click to expand...

5.1 Affliction Tips & Quirks - Warlock - Icy Veins Forums
Has been like this since MoP tbh... There are even addons (Afflidots) to help manual players with this.

As you guys are doing this out of your own pocket/time, no complaints on the "too much work...", you are doing a great job! ) I do hope that the CLU/"PureRotation"
effort which IS raid focussed takes notice of these posts :)
 
Lvl 85 Balance druid - Questbot
Doesnt engage rotation without manual input.
It runs up to a mob and pops Starfall and just stands there :)

Manually cast "Sunfire" engages the rotation and he starts to spam Wrath.

Log attached: View attachment 4520 2012-12-05 11.23.txt

Keep the good work up! :)
 
Kikeron said:
Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Mists Edition - Elitist Jerks

"Generally you want to save soul shards for when you have Dark Soul (or an other big cd) up, without ever wasting a nightfall proc.
You will use SB:SS to get your DoT's rolling at the beginning of the fight and to refresh your DoT's anytime a "Big" proc/cd is used and just before it ends. Also, during execute SB:SS is used to refresh your DoT's always as we have a surplus of shards.

Haunt is used when we have 4 shards (so as to not waste nightfall procs). when we have more powerful DoT's active (as a result of being refreshed during a proc). and to keep the haunt debuff ~100% uptime during execute."
Click to expand...

Sorry but:
- The warlock who did this statement does not exist anymore
- the Statement is talking bout the Beta calcs

I'm sure that some parts makes sense, but i need more sources for that, don't get me wrong ... i don't wanna say you are wrong all in all, but as long as my warlock is outdpsing better geared warlocks from raidguilds, i say: this rotation is absolutely okay and viable for raids (except the obvious issues stated in my last post)

But (like said in my last post) ... i will adapt the suggestions to another combat routine which is by far much simpler than clu and i can change it much faster and more flexible ... and compare the results in a 10 mio damage test
 
Of course your work is very good! But I am pretty sure about the dot clipping thingy at MoP. Still thank you for your work. We are here to help you improve it, not to criticize you, of course :)
 
Stampe said:
Lvl 85 Balance druid - Questbot
Doesnt engage rotation without manual input.
It runs up to a mob and pops Starfall and just stands there :)

Manually cast "Sunfire" engages the rotation and he starts to spam Wrath.

Log attached: View attachment 71994

Keep the good work up! :)
Click to expand...

update your clu, test again, and now go outa here, i have to talk to the warlocks .... first time ever i could read more than only one warlock player in this thread, and get suggestions :P
 
Kikeron said:
Of course your work is very good! But I am pretty sure about the dot clipping thingy at MoP. Still thank you for your work. We are here to help you improve it, not to criticize you, of course :)
Click to expand...

oh criticize is welcome :) i only ask for sources ^^
i'm not the one who says NO in all circumstances, i say no as long as noone can show me the right (or better) way and can prove it!
I've read now on icy-veins, and EJ ... you are right, they are all talking bout clipping (if u read between the lines), but noone has shown calcs or something like that ... so i've to update my simcraft again, and do the calcs by myself^^ and waste time again on google to look for a prove of your or mine version :D

but ... again .. doesn't matter, the discussion was interesting enought, to adapt the changes into PureRotation in the next days and compare it to CLU and in a raid
 
Kikeron said:
Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Mists Edition - Elitist Jerks

"Generally you want to save soul shards for when you have Dark Soul (or an other big cd) up, without ever wasting a nightfall proc.
You will use SB:SS to get your DoT's rolling at the beginning of the fight and to refresh your DoT's anytime a "Big" proc/cd is used and just before it ends. Also, during execute SB:SS is used to refresh your DoT's always as we have a surplus of shards.

Haunt is used when we have 4 shards (so as to not waste nightfall procs). when we have more powerful DoT's active (as a result of being refreshed during a proc). and to keep the haunt debuff ~100% uptime during execute."
Click to expand...

There is however a difference between only using Haunt @4 shards and "making sure you always have 4 shards up for use"... For the current CLU Affli Lock CC only using haunt @4 shards idd. would be a dps loss as it is throwing everything
it has at its targets. A manual lock will first make sure that a shard capping situation exists by dotting everything up with at least Corruption (generating NF procs), after that only using haunt @4 shards is just making sure shards aren't wasted. In most multi mob/boss situations an SB:COElements followed by SB:SOC will ensure an endless supply of shards. In the end an AffliLock should ALWAYS use haunt when appropriate, regardless of the number of shards. However an AffliLock should ALWAYS be working to increase shard supply as Haunt is F%$#n +40% of dot tick dmg...

Tips:
When grinding (dailies etc), just throw corruptions around on mobs which are not tagged by yourself, they do generate Nightfall procs :)
It's better to have 2 fully dotted mobs (without haunt or MG) then 1 fully dotted target with haunt + MG! Glyphed Soulswap is your friend even though it seems a lot of starting AffliLocks only know SB:SS...

-> last post for the moment, dun wanna turn this into a Lock discussion :P
 
why not lock discussion? we have 283 pages about other stuff :D
in general u are right, but the dotting of multiple targets is depending on the gear, which i can't manage with the combat routine ;) i don't really know (okay maybe i could with a formular to compare current level with current stats) if the lock is a good geared one which can handle more than 2 mobs or not.
So atm this version (corr on multiple mobs which aren't attacking me) is not a solution (and for raiding it isn't too .. i think^^)

the other suggestions for haunt / dotting will be tested within the next days

I like to increase damage, but i dislike to remove the ability to use it for dailys and so on^^ (botting)
 
Of course a good thing, but for prot paladin, not all do, a talent sometimes uses the prism of the enemy, when it is necessary for you. Does not cause the monsters when they resort to the group. And print settings certainly not clear to me at all. I use the standard battle in dungeons profile. And so do your creation is good too, but it needs work. Thank you."Translated by Google"
 
Stormchasing said:
update your clu, test again, and now go outa here, i have to talk to the warlocks .... first time ever i could read more than only one warlock player in this thread, and get suggestions :P
Click to expand...

Cheers! But it got borked and wont compile now :P I manually edited the balance cs file and fixed the missing commas etc :) working now :)

Hope you get something good out of the locks :P

EDIT: Or not.. seems a bit "flakey" while running LazyRaider(not engaging rotation after manual pull) but works with QuestBot now :D
 
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Stormchasing said:
why not lock discussion? we have 283 pages about other stuff :D
in general u are right, but the dotting of multiple targets is depending on the gear, which i can't manage with the combat routine ;) i don't really know (okay maybe i could with a formular to compare current level with current stats) if the lock is a good geared one which can handle more than 2 mobs or not.
So atm this version (corr on multiple mobs which aren't attacking me) is not a solution (and for raiding it isn't too .. i think^^)

the other suggestions for haunt / dotting will be tested within the next days

I like to increase damage, but i dislike to remove the ability to use it for dailys and so on^^ (botting)
Click to expand...

Okay... If you don't mind a little wall of text in this thread, here it goes:

Raiding:
The CC should really be in tune with the current boss in order to optimize Affliction Lock dps. Eg. first boss in MSV ("the 4 dogs") is all about
using SB:SS to maintain dots on all 4 (or 3 in normal) of them and twisting DS/MG to keep up SS supply. Actually the default AOE in CLU does
an OK job here, even with only using DS :) Feng is a single target boss so one needs to optimize dotting (using proccs & CD timing) and no
option to increase NF procs... The mobs before Spiritbinder are handled OKish by the default routine (SB:SS) unless too many are around and
the SB:SOC routine is used :/ The way to go here is to SB:SS 3 mobs and MG, then DS to get 4 SS, then take on a new mob until they are
all gone... Spiritbinder itself is a single target boss again but multidotting Agony/Corruption the "Shadowy Minions" does provide one with SS
even when out of the Spiritworld, which in turn helps with the boss itself. The kings are single target (like Feng) and it is not advised to use
the CLU CC here!!! Dots aren't good during Maddening Shout and also tend to kill the skull thingy before it is somewhere harmless. At Elegon
the default CLU CC tries to kill the protector too soon etc. etc. I can go on like this for MSV/HOF/TOES. The way I solved this is to run my
own targeting routine when in raids and make the type of AOE and channels dependent on the boss in question, crude but effective... Oh,
mob packs are handled as SB:SOC followed by SB:SS + MG on the "least focused mobs", I use the built-in dps meter to acquire those targets.
Furthermore I prio mobs for DS at <20% as an extra measure to supply SS, especially if they start to run out, you need to make sure you
end with 4 SS... So use a "bosslist" & an "addlist" to determine prio and AOEchoice through exposed bools and targetlist.

Grinding/dailies:
"botpoi kill", "botpoi kill", "botpoi kill"... Rule of thumb is that an Affli lock should be able to handle approx. 3x their own health in mobs by using
SB:SS+MG -> keep up -> DS every <20% mob unless the mobs use stuns/silences in which case one should still take 'em on but improve on
CLU CC defensive CDs :) "Unbound Will", "Singe Magic (GOS Imp)", "Mortal Coil", "Escape Artist (racial)", "Dark Bargain", "Spell lock (GOS Felhunter)"
etc. are the answer here. So targeting routine should just take on the 3 nearest attackable units with creature type == botpoi.kill and go for it...
Offensive/defensive CDs + trinkets & racials use must be optimized to handle >3 and "shit for casters" mobs. The target routine also drops
Corruption on targets in combat with other players (not pulling aggro) in order to increase NF procs. Also, if a total mob pack's life doesn't reach
your own health it's probably better to use RoF. CLU's default CC doesn't even handle this anymore, the cluster routines are available though...
If there are more mobs attacking me with a total healthpool > 3x my own then I'll dot up & fear the most healthy mob away... Fear is also not
used anymore in the default CC.

target routine:
I solved this the same way Singular does this for tank/heal targeting, I re-prioritize the target list according to what I wrote above and make
some booleans public in that class, I then handle multi-targeting & AOE in the CC itself. Crude, I know... Not a gifted developer like you though :P

dot tracking:
Shite!!! There really isn't a good way to do this without a lot of work... The stuff it needs to handle is just overwhelming: double casts, missed casts,
removed casts, all intellect and haste procs on the lock's side... (later figured that I could just use haste/spellpower and not track intel/procs myself)
The only working prototype I've been able to come up with is a class that used the combat log attached events to do this as this saves on having to track
a lot of stuff yourself. Haven't been working on it further but the idea was to provide the "What dot I need to cast ?" where my targeting routine already provides
the "What target do I need to dot ?".

Anyways, currently working on getting Weishbier's Synapse Frost DK converted to an Affliction lock CC for myself as I don't have xs to PureRotation
beta. Another path I'm taking is the AI path of which "behavior" (priorityselector, decorator, sequence) are only part of the equation together with
events and plans which are not used in CCs... Currently working on a CC that uses a time based fifo buffer and prioritizes the actions inthere according
to a collection of plans and reacting to events.

Now can I shut up ? LOL (really, drop me a line for the PureRotation beta although I'm not really a tester but an architect | I raid approx 20h/week)
 
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