Banwave 10-11-2016 Discussion

[Drackme]

So just a quick note.
My account was ban at the last Ban wave. Since the previous one, I used the bot only with Combat Bot (or Lazy Raider that had HB planting too often from where the current use of the Combat Bot routine) currently, for rotations only, Disable mouse displacement (even in Wow options).

No farming (ressources, or other), no fishing => I was always behind the bot when my character was active and mostly grouped with my guildmates (I hate the LFR, especially in mythical mode and more).

Moreover, I saw that all the other bots usually saved by the ban wave (WRobot and The Noob Bot) were also hit hard by this ban wave.

It is therefore an update of the warden that is responsible and the devs of HB (and the other bots besides) should now seriously work on it otherwise it is the death of the botting on Wow.

 

[quinzds]

So just a quick note.
My account was ban at the last Ban wave. Since the previous one, I used the bot only with Combat Bot (or Lazy Raider that had HB planting too often from where the current use of the Combat Bot routine) currently, for rotations only, Disable mouse displacement (even in Wow options).

No farming (ressources, or other), no fishing => I was always behind the bot when my character was active and mostly grouped with my guildmates (I hate the LFR, especially in mythical mode and more).

Moreover, I saw that all the other bots usually saved by the ban wave (WRobot and The Noob Bot) were also hit hard by this ban wave.

It is therefore an update of the warden that is responsible and the devs of HB (and the other bots besides) should now seriously work on it otherwise it is the death of the botting on Wow.

And what makes you think they're not working on it? Theyre sweating 24/7 to get it back up and running. Believe me

 

[pimpampum]

they dont do ip address bans.....this has been debunked years ago now....

No, it hasn't. You would do good in avoiding statements like that. This bot has been used by hundreds of thousands of people. there had been all sort of bans reported. But., apparently, you prefer to only consider those that agree with your considerations as true or noteworthy.

they do association bans which might look like an IP ban to some.

This is a good point; they usually do this, and people "forget" that they had an alt in the same guild of a bot, who happened to take 10k from that guild bank. Ridiculous, but enough.

Even then, there have been cases reported in this same forum and others ( OC) where they do a full sweep of all accounts in an IP. As in, every account that has been logged for X time in a certain computer or IP gets banned.

Even completely unbotted accounts with not any sort of conection to the botting ones.

I'll agree that it is unusual. But Blizzard's behaviour is hard to predict. I would call this banwave affecting all 3rd party programs as unusual.

 

[Demondog70]

No, it hasn't. You would do good in avoiding statements like that. This bot has been used by hundreds of thousands of people. there had been all sort of bans reported. But., apparently, you prefer to only consider those that agree with your considerations as true or noteworthy.



This is a good point; they usually do this, and people "forget" that they had an alt in the same guild of a bot, who happened to take 10k from that guild bank. Ridiculous, but enough.

Even then, there have been cases reported in this same forum and others ( OC) where they do a full sweep of all accounts in an IP. As in, every account that has been logged for X time in a certain computer or IP gets banned.

Even completely unbotted accounts with not any sort of conection to the botting ones.

I'll agree that it is unusual. But Blizzard's behaviour is hard to predict. I would call this banwave affecting all 3rd party programs as unusual.

I am actually not sure what you are talking about because it was debunked on numerous occasions during Glider days and also in the early days of HB so I think you are off que. I actually proved it myself at home so I am very comfortable saying it. So you can state what you want but those who know the score know they don't ban by IP address.

That said if two accounts do many of same things and are connected by transfers such as by mail you can get banned by association BUT not simply because you share an IP address. That's so off que it ain't funny.

I have my main still which remains unbotted and I play on the same IP address as my bot accounts and at the same time. My bot has gotten banned in ban waves but never has my main. I have had 2 bot accounts on same IP address running in parallel fashion and one get's hit and the other stays up.

Now during a ban wave ever account that bots during a detection gets hit regardless of IP address so again I am clueless as to your assumptions.

Again I state, as others have countless times from back in Glider days to today. Blizzard does NOT BAN simply by IP address.

 

[TheAxester]

i hope they ban like this every week. So can make big bank on the ah

 

[Demondog70]

So just a quick note.
My account was ban at the last Ban wave. Since the previous one, I used the bot only with Combat Bot (or Lazy Raider that had HB planting too often from where the current use of the Combat Bot routine) currently, for rotations only, Disable mouse displacement (even in Wow options).

No farming (ressources, or other), no fishing => I was always behind the bot when my character was active and mostly grouped with my guildmates (I hate the LFR, especially in mythical mode and more).

Moreover, I saw that all the other bots usually saved by the ban wave (WRobot and The Noob Bot) were also hit hard by this ban wave.

It is therefore an update of the warden that is responsible and the devs of HB (and the other bots besides) should now seriously work on it otherwise it is the death of the botting on Wow.

Simply put. Bot down NO MONEY AND PEOPLE SCARED NEVER COME BACK......BOT UP PEOPLE CONFIDENT AND MAKING MONEY>>>So HB in panic to get bot back....trust me but in same token don't want a new ban wave right behind.....that's not good for business

 

[Demondog70]

i hope they ban like this every week. So can make big bank on the ah

I actually enjoy ban waves because I save up stuff to sell at AH and rake in the gold.

 

[pimpampum]

I am actually not sure what you are talking about because it was debunked on numerous occasions during Glider days and also in the early days of HB so I think you are off que. I actually proved it myself at home so I am very comfortable saying it. So you can state what you want but those who know the score know they don't ban by IP address.

That said if two accounts do many of same things and are connected by transfers such as by mail you can get banned by association BUT not simply because you share an IP address. That's so off que it ain't funny.

I have my main still which remains unbotted and I play on the same IP address as my bot accounts and at the same time. My bot has gotten banned in ban waves but never has my main. I have had 2 bot accounts on same IP address running in parallel fashion and one get's hit and the other stays up.

Now during a ban wave ever account that bots during a detection gets hit regardless of IP address so again I am clueless as to your assumptions.

Again I state, as others have countless times from back in Glider days to today. Blizzard does NOT BAN simply by IP address.

What I said is exactly what you are doing right now. Taking your personal experience, and consider it a fact that always happen.

For something to be debunked, it has to be proven as wrong. As , it never happens.

There are reports in this same forum (which are years old, months old, whatever.) Where Hb users state that a true IP ban has occurred to them. A true IP ban, with no association between accounts.

One well-known in the gold selling business guy got IP banned. Including many unbotted accounts he had as backup. Including other innocent player accounts which had logged in in the same Ip.


I'm not doing the statement that from now onwards they will ban IP's. Don't even think so. But, there are reports (as worthy of consideration as your own or my own reports) of people suffering IP bans.


So, refrain from making statements when you can't. That's what I meant. Blizzard does not USUALLY ban by IP address. They don't USUALLY ban all 3rd party applications altogether. They don't USUALLY have a new guy-in-charge on their antibotting dpmnt. The bolded part in these sentences is the most important: since there are examples of the opposite happening, we cannot make statements on them

 

[Demondog70]

What I said is exactly what you are doing right now. Taking your personal experience, and consider it a fact that always happen.

For something to be debunked, it has to be proven as wrong. As , it never happens.

There are reports in this same forum (which are years old, months old, whatever.) Where Hb users state that a true IP ban has occurred to them. A true IP ban, with no association between accounts.

One well-known in the gold selling business guy got IP banned. Including many unbotted accounts he had as backup. Including other innocent player accounts which had logged in in the same Ip.


I'm not doing the statement that from now onwards they will ban IP's. Don't even think so. But, there are reports (as worthy of consideration as your own or my own reports) of people suffering IP bans.


So, refrain from making statements when you can't. That's what I meant. Blizzard does not USUALLY ban by IP address. They don't USUALLY ban all 3rd party applications altogether. They don't USUALLY have a new guy-in-charge on their antibotting dpmnt. The bolded part in these sentences is the most important: since there are examples of the opposite happening, we cannot make statements on them

This is going to have to be a case of agree to disagree because I have seen and know better.

Case Closed.

 

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

So, I have not read all the 68 pages. But I stopped botting on my farm account 26-10-2016 and that account is NOT bannned.

 

[BoBoFatt]

They can't ban by IP because your ISP is always cycling it. If they banned your IP, all you would have to do is reset your router and your external IP will change and the next poor guy that gets that IP would technically be blocked by Blizzard.

 

[Wawnsic]

Blizz devs are reading this forum constantly, so, it is a big challenge being ahead of them.

I think I learned my lesson and will never do anything stupid like boting again.

 

[pirre1234]

If you're a charlover then dont bot
Bought a cheap VPN + new acc lvl100boost,30days+legionupgrade 35eur, 14h and now im 110 again, no bans yet. Worth it, just wanna use cr and pwn until next ban.

 

[quinzds]

If you're a charlover then dont bot
Bought a cheap VPN + new acc lvl100boost,30days+legionupgrade 35eur, 14h and now im 110 again, no bans yet. Worth it, just wanna use cr and pwn until next ban.

How does VPN help by the way?

 

[qztr]

How does VPN help by the way?

You get a new IP, that's located somewhere else rather than your home.

 

[quinzds]

You get a new IP, that's located somewhere else rather than your home.

Yes....thank you for explaining the obvious....but how does it help you from getting banned with botting? lol

 

[pimpampum]

They can't ban by IP because your ISP is always cycling it. If they banned your IP, all you would have to do is reset your router and your external IP will change and the next poor guy that gets that IP would technically be blocked by Blizzard.

On Dynamic IPs, yeah. On Static IPs (which are common in some countries) , you are assigned a specific IP.

But this is plain arguing for the sake of doing so. You are mistaking IP ban ( ban all accounts that at a given time frame were using the offender's IP) which IP blacklisting or flagging ( any account that would be used for that IP would be flagged for review or straight up banned).

There are benefits to IP blacklisting and flagging - and even considering ranges, not IPs : If you've seen your Ip, it's something like xxx.xxx.yyy.zzz. Most providers only offer the possibility of changing the yyy.zzz (known as subnet and host respectively) part of your IP, therefore making the amount of possible IP's you would be assigned small enough to be flagged, and therefore, making it much easier for blizzard to check if one of that Ip's is connecting to their servers for autoflagging / checking).

No way they would do this sort of process by default without manual confirmation on each account. This is 2016, not 1990 when IP's were mostly static worlwide and changing them was difficult.

They would be stupid to not check the IP / computer fingerprint of a botter trying to find new offenders. And they are not stupid; fact is they are extremely well payed professionals, and between them are some of the best names in the business. They can afford them, obviously.

But all this matter nothing in the case of a process detection like this banwave is thought to have been. Nothing will save you from that, except being lucky enough to not be on when the detection window itself was active.

 

[Demondog70]

What a croc of expletive.

Let's not take my word for it let's take a Blizz banner's words. There is a thread here where a Blizz reviewer stated to a user that they had no problems with him opening a new account but that account would not reopen. Just by that remark your theory does not hold water and I have seen and heard countless examples over the years that make IP banning statement the height of stupidity to state the least. I have had both dynamic and static IP address and loss accounts on both and NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER...whew EVER had a new account banned. Your theory is rubbish.

If what you are saying is true that there is such as thing as IP banning and Blacklisting you would not be able to open an account from that IP address and let's say by some dumb luck you did, it would be taken down within a short period of time as the system scans your IP address.

As I said IP address banning was eliminated a long time ago. All the way back in Glider days it was shot down. It was tested over and over and shot down each and every time I can ever recall. I believe it was brought up again in the early days of HB and shot down there also.

These are not my words but that of EXPERIENCED BOTTERS and if I recall correctly even a Glider support officer got in on it also. Now that said I have tested this theory myself. I have run multiple accounts on the same computer at once, on the same IP address, at the same exact time let me state that again and got an account banned and the other account was untouched.

I have accounts that I play while I bot, namely my main and my backup main. Neither of the two unbotted accounts have ever received a ban despite being played on the same IP address as a bot account that got banned during a banwave.

This whole theory is crap. Was then and is now. Pure supposition and assumptions. An IP related ban is not an IP related ban it just looks that way.

You can chat it exist til hell freezes over. People who know say different and I myself have tested and can say it does not happen.

Reclosed....

PS VPN does not really help you in this regard to be honest. Especially not during a banwave. If you are detected you are detected. If you are banned on a none botted account which I have heard but don't believe it true it's an easy unban. The only thing I use VPN on is with my guild. I have an account which is my guild master who operates off a VPN so as to make Blizz think he is not any relation to me. I play him 4 to 5 times a week for a few hours. I botted him up to max level and only botted him when new expansions came out so as to max level him. He is there solely for protection of my gold. He does dungeons and has good gear because of that so as to create the good toon persona only.

 

[Xarian]

On Dynamic IPs, yeah. On Static IPs (which are common in some countries) , you are assigned a specific IP.

But this is plain arguing for the sake of doing so. You are mistaking IP ban ( ban all accounts that at a given time frame were using the offender's IP) which IP blacklisting or flagging ( any account that would be used for that IP would be flagged for review or straight up banned).

There are benefits to IP blacklisting and flagging - and even considering ranges, not IPs : If you've seen your Ip, it's something like xxx.xxx.yyy.zzz. Most providers only offer the possibility of changing the yyy.zzz (known as subnet and host respectively) part of your IP, therefore making the amount of possible IP's you would be assigned small enough to be flagged, and therefore, making it much easier for blizzard to check if one of that Ip's is connecting to their servers for autoflagging / checking).

No way they would do this sort of process by default without manual confirmation on each account. This is 2016, not 1990 when IP's were mostly static worlwide and changing them was difficult.

They would be stupid to not check the IP / computer fingerprint of a botter trying to find new offenders. And they are not stupid; fact is they are extremely well payed professionals, and between them are some of the best names in the business. They can afford them, obviously.

But all this matter nothing in the case of a process detection like this banwave is thought to have been. Nothing will save you from that, except being lucky enough to not be on when the detection window itself was active.

This wouldnt happen, and before i explain why, even static IPs aint "static". If you ask your ISP for a static IP, this IP is only yours for the duration you rent it, and then it is returned to the pool. If you move 3 months later, then this IP is returned to the pool, and innocent people would be hit by the result of an ip "ban"

Regarding allocation of IPs per subnet;

It makes very little sense for a consumer ISP to provide a subnet, for each household. Where i come from, you only have 1 public IP, your internal network is behind NAT. If i were to be the only one on this subnet, they would allocate 4 IPs to me, now most consumer IPs provided are class C addresses, which means that if an ISP ran by this policy, each household would have a subnet of 4 addresses, resulting in 64 networks per class C range.

You can see why this is very problematic, imagine a city of 1000 people, they would need 4000 subnets alone, imagine the routing congestion on the network in order to operate this, it would be insane.

In order to mitigate routing congestion on the protocol, you want to make sure all subnets are as big as they need to be in order to hold the user addresses required, so if a single street in this city has maybe 200 households, you would allocate 1 subnet to this street, with enough useable addresses(so over 200) to reduce routing congestion, and then use NAT.

Anyway, long story short, IP banning/flagging is unlikely.

 

[BoBoFatt]

This wouldnt happen, and before i explain why, even static IPs aint "static". If you ask your ISP for a static IP, this IP is only yours for the duration you rent it, and then it is returned to the pool. If you move 3 months later, then this IP is returned to the pool, and innocent people would be hit by the result of an ip "ban"

Regarding allocation of IPs per subnet;

It makes very little sense for a consumer ISP to provide a subnet, for each household. Where i come from, you only have 1 public IP, your internal network is behind NAT. If i were to be the only one on this subnet, they would allocate 4 IPs to me, now most consumer IPs provided are class C addresses, which means that if an ISP ran by this policy, each household would have a subnet of 4 addresses, resulting in 64 networks per class C range.

You can see why this is very problematic, imagine a city of 1000 people, they would need 4000 subnets alone, imagine the routing congestion on the network in order to operate this, it would be insane.

In order to mitigate routing congestion on the protocol, you want to make sure all subnets are as big as they need to be in order to hold the user addresses required, so if a single street in this city has maybe 200 households, you would allocate 1 subnet to this street, with enough useable addresses(so over 200) to reduce routing congestion, and then use NAT.

Anyway, long story short, IP banning/flagging is unlikely.

Thank you. Someone who knows what they are talking about.