1/1 ban on main on how i recomend to proceed

[Malacath]

>>> Why can't we act as we please? If I own a factory and I use machinery in an assembly line I guess I am cheating then to you?

Well if you accepted terms before purchasing that factory, terms which say you are not allowed to use certain machinery...

I have absolutely no problem with ppl spending thousands of $ on RMAH, but at least if they are botting, even for a short amount of time, they shouldn't be so stupid to do it on their main, or spend that money on a bot account.
>>> People have gotten their mule accounts banned or any accounts on same ip as botted account, so the fact that it was used on main is pretty irrelevant; and ive been told it was mainly used to paragon levels, not to gain financial advantage.

Yes, certainly for paragon levels, not the 1000$/month for average botter, when market was fine.

>>>What is your motivation to make botters suffer consequences? If we all felt botting was so morally wrong or even ambiguous I don't think so many of us would be here, it is certainly up for debate but like I mentioned I think botting has a positive effect on the community. It also helps build community structure IMO. Your free to think botting is bad for the community, but can you provide explanation as to why exactly?

You are missing my point, I don't want us to suffer. The whole point of my typing here is to express that IMO if someone's cheating, then shouldn't cry after getting caught, just take the hit like a man.

If someone wants to stay clean and safe he should just play the game how its meant to be.

I have red some comments on Bnet, ppl telling they were not using any kind of hacks, still got caught. Well in those cases there is a place for investigation and proving Blizz was wrong.

 

[tbgvtr]

"I have red some comments on Bnet, ppl telling they were not using any kind of hacks, still got caught. Well in those cases there is a place for investigation and proving Blizz was wrong."

Well as far as I am concerned in any situation that they have not presented the user with proof of violation it is as good as not using any kind of anything. Simply put " it ain't cheating if you don't get caught, with proof!"

 

[Malacath]

Well as far as I am concerned in any situation that they have not presented the user with proof of violation it is as good as not using any kind of anything. Simply put " it ain't cheating if you don't get caught, with proof!"

I can't agree. We have two very different views.

 

[Bic420]

-Then your legal matter has nothing to do with blizzard it has to do with the outlet that sold you the product. A court of law will not hold blizzard responsible for another company's actions.

>>>> No,

because in the case of retail purchase I am only suggesting to pursue the amount spent on RMAH, not for the physical copy of the game

, $60 is nothing compared to what one may have spent on the RMAH. (edit-

also the time I called blizzard to ask for a refund for the copy I did tell them the store would not accept open electronic merchandise for returns, and was more or less told by them I was S.O.L.

)

-they were not lying they just had to much evidence against you to unban you. I mean what do you expect them to unban you just because you keep asking over and over? thats not how it works.
>>>>

if the glove dont fit you must acquit

-They did not refuse to respond to your emails regarding being banned, they simply said they would not respond further to your emails to that specific ticket. they clearly stated you could contact another part of blizzard that would look into your case. Hence, why they would not be severing anything in their dispute policy.

>>>>

most of the time they did not give this party any alternate route of contact for the matter regarding rmah compensation or account ban reasoning,

and when they did they gave an email that when I called customer service to see what they could/would do, was informed by them that it was a no longer active email.. basically they acted to prevent my party's message from reaching the right department. they certainly never clearly stated my party could contact another part of blizz to look into the case.

all correspondences indicated that the investigation had concluded and the penalty would be upheld (refusal to negotiate)

.

-Nope, you claimed that blizzard was not giving the people a proper chance for people to return there product upon purchase, nothing about paypal. Blizzard is giving proper return policy.

again blizzard is in no way shape or form responsible for another outlets actions, so you complaining to blizzard is pointless as every store has different sets of policy's.


-Very true, but the problem is the glove fits, all to well.



-Ok , so you admit they did give an alternative route to contact them? because before you claimed they didn't. hmmm case is not holding to well i see.

They did not refuse to negotiate and in no way did they not give you other means of contacting them to further your questions. Just because you got banned does not mean if you keep asking over and over anything will happen, people have been unbanned by blizzard so far but only for good reasons not begging.

 

[blista08]

The sue train again -.-. You're not going to win the lawsuit. The fact of the matter is that you agreed to their EULA/TOS. The box you purchase at the retail outlet actually mentions that there is no offline version of the game. Additionally, it doesn't matter if "the glove fits, all too well". You purchased it at a third part retail outlet. Blizzard cannot be held liable for their business decisions =P.

 

[blista08]

-Nope, you claimed that blizzard was not giving the people a proper chance for people to return there product upon purchase, nothing about paypal. Blizzard is giving proper return policy.

again blizzard is in no way shape or form responsible for another outlets actions, so you complaining to blizzard is pointless as every store has different sets of policy's.


-Very true, but the problem is the glove fits, all to well.



-Ok , so you admit they did give an alternative route to contact them? because before you claimed they didn't. hmmm case is not holding to well i see.

They did not refuse to negotiate and in no way did they not give you other means of contacting them to further your questions. Just because you got banned does not mean if you keep asking over and over anything will happen, people have been unbanned by blizzard so far but only for good reasons not begging.

[email protected]. Found that on their website. They have alternative means lol. Just because an employee didn't go head over heels to give you their boss or legal departments information is nothing that you can use in a court of law. This information is public.

 

[tbgvtr]

[email protected]. Found that on their website. They have alternative means lol. Just because an employee didn't go head over heels to give you their boss or legal departments information is nothing that you can use in a court of law. This information is public.

That email is the one they provided, but that email address is no longer serviced. The only legal email address they are currently operating is [email protected] . Each employee is a representative of the company, and their responses are the companies responsibility.

 

[tbgvtr]

-Nope, you claimed that blizzard was not giving the people a proper chance for people to return there product upon purchase, nothing about paypal. Blizzard is giving proper return policy.

again blizzard is in no way shape or form responsible for another outlets actions, so you complaining to blizzard is pointless as every store has different sets of policy's.


-Very true, but the problem is the glove fits, all to well.



-Ok , so you admit they did give an alternative route to contact them? because before you claimed they didn't. hmmm case is not holding to well i see.

They did not refuse to negotiate and in no way did they not give you other means of contacting them to further your questions. Just because you got banned does not mean if you keep asking over and over anything will happen, people have been unbanned by blizzard so far but only for good reasons not begging.

The phone number for the legal department gets you to billing/account services. The staff there claim the only route of contact anyone for any/all negotiations is through tickets to the account administrator. The account adminstrator has declined to negotiate and expressed unwillingness to negotiate.

The terms of use are not available at retail stores, and I am not advising in the case of retail purchase to seek refund for the actual title, only for RMAH purchases. Regardless of whether or not the terms were legitimately agreed upon or not, the fact is that the terms are all up for dispute as per the dispute resolution policy, so the case can proceed without need to determine the legitimacy of the "click-through" terms and eula.

The metaphor of the glove is to say that although they firmly believe they have proof of violation, when they bring it into court it will not fit, because they obtained that proof illegitimately. (But again, this is not subject to court, but rather arbitration; yet the fact that it was obtained illegitimately still holds)

 

[Bic420]

The phone number for the legal department gets you to billing/account services. The staff there claim the only route of contact anyone for any/all negotiations is through tickets to the account administrator.

The account adminstrator has declined to negotiate and expressed unwillingness to negotiate.

The terms of use are not available at retail stores, and I am not advising in the case of retail purchase to seek refund for the actual title, only for RMAH purchases. Regardless of whether or not the terms were legitimately agreed upon or not, the fact is that the terms are all up for dispute as per the dispute resolution policy, so the case can proceed without need to determine the legitimacy of the "click-through" terms and eula.

The metaphor of the glove is to say that although they firmly believe they have proof of violation, when they bring it into court it will not fit, because they obtained that proof illegitimately. (But again, this is not subject to court, but rather arbitration; yet the fact that it was obtained illegitimately still holds)

-The account administrator did not decline to negotiate with anyone, when you contact an administrator you have already gone through the original method of appeal and have been denied. Like i said before, just because you keep begging over and over does not mean they automatically have to change their original decision thus you will not be unbanned.

-Of course the terms are up for dispute, any contract every made can be up for dispute, that does not change the fact that you don"t have a case what so ever.

-The thing is, Not only do they have all the proof they need to get someone banned, They actually don't even need a single shred of proof since you agreed to the terms and eula, so that metaphor does not fit in this case.

 

[Sheon]

Who the hell spends 5000$ on a video game? That is just plain stupid.....

She used the bot u can at anytime be banned for it it's in the tos so she is screwed either way

The only thing u can do is see if I can get lucky with chargebacks

The thing is blizzard owns all or characters and virtual items we basically just rent them they can at any time do Whatver they want with our toons or items....

Sorry for her loss but she is also very stupid to spend that much money on a game if she really spent that much money on diablo 3 then money most not be an issue for her and she should just let it go

If u not u will get banned u know the risk so deal with what Happened stop trying to sue blizzard we already have enough court issues with blizzard because of the bot we don't need more fuel to the fire added to it

 

[tbgvtr]

Who the hell spends 5000$ on a video game? That is just plain stupid.....

She used the bot u can at anytime be banned for it it's in the tos so she is screwed either way

The only thing u can do is see if I can get lucky with chargebacks

The thing is blizzard owns all or characters and virtual items we basically just rent them they can at any time do Whatver they want with our toons or items....

Sorry for her loss but she is also very stupid to spend that much money on a game if she really spent that much money on diablo 3 then money most not be an issue for her and she should just let it go

If u not u will get banned u know the risk so deal with what Happened stop trying to sue blizzard we already have enough court issues with blizzard because of the bot we don't need more fuel to the fire added to it

We all knew what could happen in a worst case scenario but that doesn't mean we neccesarily expected it. We can agree to disagree about the (the foolishness of spending a large sum of money on an account that was liable to be penalized, in addition to the) ethicallity of a dispute of this nature, but the legitimacy is without question, and all proceedings thus far have been successful and furthered my advisee towards full compensation. The matter is being handled very well for us in this individual case, and I can only hope as well for other struggling with similar (despite arbitrarily foolish) penaltys and monetary problems arising from those. I wish everyone else struggling to recover lost funds the "luck" or whatever you may call it that we have had; while I simultaneously hope that the problems with blizzards delayed paypal payments are not an indirect result of a large quantity of similar disputes. If that turns out to be the case, my personal opinion on the matter may shift, yet I will still be obliged to provide the best legal advice I can to the woman I am advising, so ultimately I wish the best of luck to all, and that only Blizzard ends up losing in this series of events, and as a result will turn their policy to one that is more hesitant to issue account closures for violations without providing proof. Remember, the law supersedes contract, and the contract [terms of use] is regardless of legitimacy under the law, up for dispute as per their dispute resolution policy. We (U.S. Residents) live in a country where a (wo/)man is innocent until proven guilty and the gaming sector should not be privy to neglect this part of our countries constitution. To all who lost in this ban wave; fight for your rights, and never admit to anything, be persistant in both of these absolutes; and you will likely find yourself on the road to compensation. GOOD LUCK!

 

[tbgvtr]

might as well throw this in here, some1 requested a TLDR before:
1. File paypal claim for all transactions within past 45 days.
2. File chargebacks with your credit card or bank for as far back as they will let you (in my experience 90 days) for all RMAH purchases.
3. Tell blizzard through ticket and through certified mail to their address listed on dispute policy website of your intent to enter arbitration.
4. Tell them since you did not agree to any terms of use or service (or eula) when you purchased the game, and when it was already installed you could not return it, you had no other option to use what you spent 59.99 (or w/e amount on) besides to click the accept button when presented with these terms.
5. File a complaint with the Los Angeles Better Business Bureau (la.bbb.org) for full amount in total spent on game and on rmah transactions, if possible include printouts of total billed in billing agreement on paypal and any credit card or bank statements.
6. Contact Blizzard through tickets repeatedly informing them that as the only route of contact to the account administrator, through tickets they must commence in negotiations for 30 days or forfeit (sever as per section 7) section 1. When they close a ticket immediately open a new one. After being ignored and/or repeatedly told that they will not negotiate or change the penalty under any circumstances, inform them that any response not explicitly mentioning intent to negotiate at all will be interpreted to mean they are (a) not upholding their own terms, and (b) effectively severing section 1 of their policy.
7. Warmly thank them for their help speeding up the process to enter arbitration and recovering funds lost in this gross breach of privacy rights!
8. Never admit to anything ever.

 

[Dbuddy]

2. File chargebacks with your credit card or bank for as far back as they will let you (in my experience 90 days) for all RMAH purchases.

bought items worth +200€ on my botting account (dumbest action ever). this is still the paypal account i get my RMAH earnings.

I don't think it's a good idea to do a chargeback for this items because they have been sold by someone who's already gotten the money for it.

Why should blizzard pay the bill?

 

[tbgvtr]

bought items worth +200€ on my botting account (dumbest action ever). this is still the paypal account i get my RMAH earnings.

I don't think it's a good idea to do a chargeback for this items because they have been sold by someone who's already gotten the money for it.

Why should blizzard pay the bill?

Because they will be hesitant to do another banwave if it costs them enough IMO. Again, the ethicality of it may be debatable; but I do not wish to debate on it.

 

[Dbuddy]

blizzard didn't react when i told them that i invested so much money and that i am not guilty (when the last banwave hit 1 of my accounts with RMAH gear i bought for ~ 200?)
They wouldn't even care if i equipped them with 20.000? gear and get banned....

I think it's a bad idea to chargeback money via paypal. Blizzard has calculated how much manpower is needed for such a banwave and how much RMAH fee is lost because of less botting.
Why should they stop banning when few people chargeback money they invested in banned acc's....?

They will sue me even more if try to get money back...

 

[Bic420]

might as well throw this in here, some1 requested a TLDR before:
1. File paypal claim for all transactions within past 45 days.
2. File chargebacks with your credit card or bank for as far back as they will let you (in my experience 90 days) for all RMAH purchases.
3. Tell blizzard through ticket and through certified mail to their address listed on dispute policy website of your intent to enter arbitration.
4. Tell them since you did not agree to any terms of use or service (or eula) when you purchased the game, and when it was already installed you could not return it, you had no other option to use what you spent 59.99 (or w/e amount on) besides to click the accept button when presented with these terms.
5. File a complaint with the Los Angeles Better Business Bureau (la.bbb.org) for full amount in total spent on game and on rmah transactions, if possible include printouts of total billed in billing agreement on paypal and any credit card or bank statements.
6. Contact Blizzard through tickets repeatedly informing them that as the only route of contact to the account administrator, through tickets they must commence in negotiations for 30 days or forfeit (sever as per section 7) section 1. When they close a ticket immediately open a new one. After being ignored and/or repeatedly told that they will not negotiate or change the penalty under any circumstances, inform them that any response not explicitly mentioning intent to negotiate at all will be interpreted to mean they are (a) not upholding their own terms, and (b) effectively severing section 1 of their policy.
7. Warmly thank them for their help speeding up the process to enter arbitration and recovering funds lost in this gross breach of privacy rights!
8. Never admit to anything ever.

1. - Bad idea and will not work.
2. -This will not work and is a horrible suggestion, you will end up getting in legal trouble yourself for attempting this.
3. - You can go ahead and do this, nothing bad will happen but blizzard will just laugh at you and nothing will be done.
4. - Never in the history of any game have you had to agree to terms of service or eula before purchasing said game, so that does not have any legal merit.(world have warcraft have been using the same method for close to 10years) Further more you can in fact return the game if you so choose not to accept the terms/eula, So that is not true at all you did very much have an option to return the game if you were not interested in signing the terms/eula.
5. - Do not do this...it will be a huge waste of time, tbgvtr(OP of the thread) is not doing any of the suggested steps he listed, he is hoping for other people to do it for him hoping that blizzard might get annoyed by the number of banned accounts filing complaints and trying to go around blizzard and contact places like Los Angeles Better Business Bureau, the problem is, is that blizzard wont care even in the slightest, People who bot will continue to buy new accounts so blizzard is still making money so it is a win win situation for them.
6. - There are more than one way of contacting blizzard in regards to your banned account, They specially give you alternate means of contacting them, I suggest you read carefully next time what they say. So your actually not severing anything in section 7 or the entire terms of service/eula and they are upholding everything that it states.
7. - They will warmly thank you right back when you end up getting your paypal shutdown(or funds automatically removed) or sued by blizzard for fraud.
8. - This is the only point out of the 8 you posted that actually is true, problem is If you got banned then they already have enough proof to show that your guilty so making up lies will not do much.

 

[tbgvtr]

4. - Never in the history of any game have you had to agree to terms of service or eula before purchasing said game, so that does not have any legal merit.(world have warcraft have been using the same method for close to 10years) Further more you can in fact return the game if you so choose not to accept the terms/eula, So that is not true at all you did very much have an option to return the game if you were not interested in signing the terms/eula.

We can agree to disagree on the rest, but on this one I would like to point out that most other games you can purchase and then go to gamestop or ebay or whereever, and sell the game as used. We bought a license to use a game not an actual game, and we were not informed of this at the point of sale. This is perhaps an accident on blizzards end, but still their fault IMHO. You are free to disagree.

 

[Bic420]

We can agree to disagree on the rest, but on this one I would like to point out that most other games you can purchase and then go to gamestop or ebay or whereever, and sell the game as used. We bought a license to use a game not an actual game, and we were not informed of this at the point of sale. This is perhaps an accident on blizzards end, but still their fault IMHO. You are free to disagree.

That is actually not true, places like gamestop/eb games and other large video game stores will not buy used PC games due to CD keys and other anti-theft protection. Yes you did buy a license to use the game but the problem is, is that you were very much informed this upon purchase as it is on the box of the game and it gives you 100% of what you need to know in the Terms/Eula, which you accepted when installing the game. If you had a problem with that then you should have hit cancel and returned the game. its very simple.

Again your point does not make sense, there are lots of other online only games that follow these rules. For example if you get banned from WoW or Guildwars you are not able to continue playing in a single player mode because well... there isn't one and since diablo 3 clearly states "online only" this is not a valid argument.

Yep we can agree to disagree I'm not really posting this for you, more just trying to inform people who may read this.

 

[tbgvtr]

That is actually not true, places like gamestop/eb games and other large video game stores will not buy used PC games due to CD keys and other anti-theft protection. Yes you did buy a license to use the game but the problem is, is that you were very much informed this upon purchase as it is on the box of the game and it gives you 100% of what you need to know in the Terms/Eula, which you accepted when installing the game. If you had a problem with that then you should have hit cancel and returned the game. its very simple.

Again your point does not make sense, there are lots of other online only games that follow these rules. For example if you get banned from WoW or Guildwars you are not able to continue playing in a single player mode because well... there isn't one and since diablo 3 clearly states "online only" this is not a valid argument.

Yep we can agree to disagree I'm not really posting this for you, more just trying to inform people who may read this.

The box of the game gives you 100% of what you need to know in the terms/eula? This statement seems self-confounding. Once again, as for the Wow/Guildwars reference, I am not personally entering dispute for the value of the title ($59.99), but only for RMAH purchases, to which the clickthrough were (1) required to use the game as anything beyond a frisbee (2) all up for dispute via their dispute resolution policy. Again, the retail outlet I purchased at declined to accept a return for reason of my declining of terms of usage. That story might not be the same for ALL retail outlets, but I do believe it is generally true. Also, for annual pass subscribers, I do not believe all of the DIABLO 3 TOU were available at the time that the annual pass was released. I could be mistaken, maybe an annual pass holder can verify this for me.

Either way, I just received payment for items that I personally sold before I was banned; so I am now (relatively) confident that the chargebacks are not being directed towards the players and rather the "middle man". Thus, I am rejuvenated in my persistance to dispute onward (as well as for those I am advising, including the woman who spent $5000 on the RMAH)!

 

[plaror]

The box of the game gives you 100% of what you need to know in the terms/eula? This statement seems self-confounding. Once again, as for the Wow/Guildwars reference, I am not personally entering dispute for the value of the title ($59.99), but only for RMAH purchases, to which the clickthrough were (1) required to use the game as anything beyond a frisbee (2) all up for dispute via their dispute resolution policy. Again, the retail outlet I purchased at declined to accept a return for reason of my declining of terms of usage. That story might not be the same for ALL retail outlets, but I do believe it is generally true. Also, for annual pass subscribers, I do not believe all of the DIABLO 3 TOU were available at the time that the annual pass was released. I could be mistaken, maybe an annual pass holder can verify this for me.

Either way, I just received payment for items that I personally sold before I was banned; so I am now (relatively) confident that the chargebacks are not being directed towards the players and rather the "middle man". Thus, I am rejuvenated in my persistance to dispute onward (as well as for those I am advising, including the woman who spent $5000 on the RMAH)!

pls let me know exactly where to send the mail to can receav the money which i have soldet to on RMAH.Like you have done and what hsould i wright ?
Ty and sry for bad english