1/1 ban on main on how i recomend to proceed

[tonari]

The thing is, blizzard has it's lua and they added the section to freely scan the ram recently and i believe that that is not legal and contradicts to the privacy laws in the country or even wider.
Dunno much about it but i asked a friend that just finished the law school and he will look a bit into it for me, but he believes that they should release some info on how they detected so many user as some actions may be illegal .

 

[Macatho]

Grow up.
You cheated
You got caught
You got banned
Deal with it.

Also in the English language a capital letter is used at the start of every sentence, it makes it much easier to read.

 

[tbgvtr]

Grow up.
You cheated
You got caught
You got banned
Deal with it.

Also in the English language a capital letter is used at the start of every sentence, it makes it much easier to read.

who cares, this is informal information for all those who want/need it, also in the english language you don't insert an enter after every two words, and in fact this is not a matter of grammar or spelling, it's a matter of getting a message accross which lower or upper case laters both acheive. I did not cheat first of all because the case described does not involve me, but rather a third party. Secondly, in my personal experience I did not cheat when I hypothetically used a bot because the bot I ran only does things that a person is capable of doing, and by doing so, a person is no longer capable, because only one user, person or bot, can occupy an account at any given time. Thus, no advantage was gained in correlation with 100% supervision, and the irrelevent fact that the terms/eula suggest that such uses are not allowed doesn't hold any meaning anything when they weren't offered at the point of sale of the retail copy.

Your money lost is not even 1/10 of the money a Blizzard lawyer gets per day. Get over your ban, Blizzard would fuck you up in court, easily.

Once again it isn't court, but arbitration, between two party's and an arbitrator, no lawyer's permitted I am pretty sure ( I could be mistaken ). Also, their terms of use/service and eula have already failed to hold up in court (in particular in matters of them breaching users privacy to detect other processes), this would be nothing knew. Be more openminded, blizzard does not have all the powers their actions might imply.

And come to think of it, I highly doubt blizz lawyers are being paid in excess of $55,000 per day, although I could be mistaken in this as well.

 

[Orlouge]

Grow up.
You cheated
You got caught
You got banned
Deal with it.

Also in the English language a capital letter is used at the start of every sentence, it makes it much easier to read.

It's ridiculous to read...
In other words, you said: If you cheat you should be punished without any proof.
We all know we cheated on botting, but, before the law, it must be proven or we had not botted. They really detected us, but without legal means. It's the argument of his process, he wants to know why he got banned and what's the proof of it.

 

[Al0]

Quit

 

[Bic420]

who cares, this is informal information for all those who want/need it, also in the english language you don't insert an enter after every two words, and in fact this is not a matter of grammar or spelling, it's a matter of getting a message accross which lower or upper case laters both acheive.

I did not cheat first of all because the case described does not involve me, but rather a third party.

Secondly, in my personal experience I did not cheat when I hypothetically used a bot because the bot I ran only does things that a person is capable of doing, and by doing so, a person is no longer capable, because only one user, person or bot, can occupy an account at any given time. Thus, no advantage was gained in correlation with 100% supervision

,

and the irrelevent fact that the terms/eula suggest that such uses are not allowed doesn't hold any meaning anything when they weren't offered at the point of sale of the retail copy.

And come to think of it, I highly doubt blizz lawyers are being paid in excess of $55,000 per day,

although I could be mistaken in this as well

.

Wrong again having a bot is massive advantage over not having one, there for you did infact cheat.


The last part is also incorrect, simply put you signed the tos/eula, which instantly makes you lose this case. your whole argument of wanting them to make you sign the tos/eula in stores is also invalid and would be void in a courtroom because blizzard did not force you to sign it.

You are mistaken in a lot of the stuff you post and im not saying this just be a ass or anything your just post a lot of information which is simply wrong.


I heard in another post you saying you were talking with a lawyer, well i genuinely hope you are not paying him because he is obviously a horrible lawyer and is probably just using you for money.

 

[ospylakbrah]

yep... same shit happened to me. i have items on the RMAH, those items probably sold for money. they banned me. i dont get any of that money... they get it all ("Loot"). Thats why she/he sueing

 

[anon667]

yep... same shit happened to me. i have items on the RMAH, those items probably sold for money. they banned me. i dont get any of that money... they get it all ("Loot"). Thats why she/he sueing

After getting banned, in the last wave, gold and an item were sold. The money were sent normally to my paypal account.

 

[tbgvtr]

Wrong again having a bot is massive advantage over not having one, there for you did infact cheat.


The last part is also incorrect, simply put you signed the tos/eula, which instantly makes you lose this case. your whole argument of wanting them to make you sign the tos/eula in stores is also invalid and would be void in a courtroom because blizzard did not force you to sign it.

You are mistaken in a lot of the stuff you post and im not saying this just be a ass or anything your just post a lot of information which is simply wrong.


I heard in another post you saying you were talking with a lawyer, well i genuinely hope you are not paying him because he is obviously a horrible lawyer and is probably just using you for money.

The TOS already have been shut down in court in the US. They cannot sell a game and not accept returns on opened boxes, while at the same time requiring one accept the terms to use, now unreturnable software. Also, even besides that argument, the whole TOS is subject to dispute based on the dispute resolution policy.

For the woman I am advising, Paypal has already also refunded for all transactions over $5.00 in last 45 days. Blizzard has contacted saying as a result of the chargebacks they are not going to allow further use of the RMAH for the account (well if their departments communicated with eachother they would realize this penalty is already active!) Because of the sheer number of paypal transactions, many below $3.00 as a result of wanting instant gold to complete work on the auction house she says, I advised her it would probably be easier just to file disputes on anything over $5.00 (17 paypal transactions totalling over $300 returned, and again we got money back from mastercard, for 5 or so transactions for a total of approximately $150); but since they (paypal claims) have all ended up quickly succeeding in getting a full refund, we are now discussing whether it would be advisable to file paypal claims on the many many "micro" transactions, despite the tediousness, just for sake of completion. Again, paypal only accepts the claims within 45 days, so the remainder of the ~$5000 spent on RMAH is still ongoing negotiations. The better business bureau responded and said they have contacted the company and are awaiting response. We have also sent certified mail to their legal department, both for consistency, and so that in the case the BBB fails, we will have the opportunity to dispute the matter with an AAA arbitrator, at a location convenient to us. The sheer fact that my client is located in Maine might mean that Blizzard would rather refund $5000 then send a representative all the way to Maine. Cheers, hope other members inquiries are being taken as seriously by them and are receiving compensation for their losses! Stand up for your rights! You might be able to get someone to sign a contract to become your slave, but that wouldn't hold up in court either... for all the contract respecting folk out there, remembers the law supercedes!

As for whether the bot is a massive advantage, firstly I did mention she only used the bot for a total of MAXIMUM 10 hours within the past few months. This was all while she was completing other tasks (mostly academic) and opted to watch the bot during these tasks to not lose time/experience by the burden of having to complete such tasks. So by your logic a player with no responsibilities outside of the game also has a significant advantage and is cheating? I really am failng to understand your perception of this situation and what your opinion is based on.

 

[tbgvtr]

Actual text from blizz response to chargebacks:

A "chargeback" is when a payment you have made for goods or services is recalled by your bank on your request after the payment is taken by the retailer. This means the retailer has provided a service which has not yet been paid for.

Your access to the Real Money Auction House has been locked and you will not be able to create or bid on any new auctions until this issue has been resolved.

 

[aaron913]

anyone have a concise TLR for me?

 

[tbgvtr]

anyone have a concise TLR for me?

TLDR .. advisable steps to take in filing your dispute and(/for) recovering losses.

1. File paypal claim for all transactions within past 45 days.
2. File chargebacks with your credit card or bank for as far back as they will let you (in my experience 90 days) for all RMAH purchases.
3. Tell blizzard through ticket and through certified mail to their address listed on dispute policy website of your intent to enter arbitration.
4. Tell them since you did not agree to any terms of use or service (or eula) when you purchased the game, and when it was already installed you could not return it, you had no other option to use what you spent 59.99 (or w/e amount on) besides to click the accept button when presented with these terms.
5. File a complaint with the Los Angeles Better Business Bureau (la.bbb.org) for full amount in total spent on game and on rmah transactions, if possible include printouts of total billed in billing agreement on paypal and any credit card or bank statements.
6. Contact Blizzard through tickets repeatedly informing them that as the only route of contact to the account administrator, through tickets they must commence in negotiations for 30 days or forfeit (sever as per section 7) section 1. When they close a ticket immediately open a new one. After being ignored and/or repeatedly told that they will not negotiate or change the penalty under any circumstances, inform them that any response not explicitly mentioning intent to negotiate at all will be interpreted to mean they are (a) not upholding their own terms, and (b) effectively severing section 1 of their policy.
7. Warmly thank them for their help speeding up the process to enter arbitration and recovering funds lost in this gross breach of privacy rights!
8. Never admit to anything ever.

 

[Malacath]

Who the hell cares that you got banned. You knew the risks when you started botting; we all knew them. Have some goddamn SPINE and accept the situation. You were fool enough to spend a lot of money on your bot account now don't make a joke out of yourself by going after your money while you were the one who violated TOS.

 

[tbgvtr]

Who the hell cares that you got banned. You knew the risks when you started botting; we all knew them. Have some goddamn SPINE and accept the situation. You were fool enough to spend a lot of money on your bot account now don't make a joke out of yourself by going after your money while you were the one who violated TOS.

1. I am advising a 3rd party on this matter, yes we all know/knew the risks, but this party only used it while doing other academic work or cleaning her room etc for about 10 hours since the summer I am told.
She has said to me that since using the program so heavily in the summer, she did not see risk in using it sparingly and supervised for a relatively low amount of hours. At least she thought if there was a risk she would get a preliminary warning. Regardless of knowledge of risk or not, why should one deny their right to appeal, and to enter arbitration. Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land here in america (f*ck yea) and I've yet to be informed of my party or read of another party receiving any compelling evidence of their so-called "violations". (see 4)
2. IMO: If there is one position to take that might be said to have "spine" it would be the position to fight Blizzard every step of the way. Not having spine I would liken to letting Blizzard walk all over you because they have set up a situation which allows them to do just so.
3. Spending a lot on the RMAH might very well be foolish to some, but to others it is valid, and it is what fuels the botting community, so as a presumed botter yourself, you should be happy that people are willing to spend lots of $ on the RMAH.
4. Blizzard violated the law in detection processes, this party only violated some terms which she was coerced into signing in order to make use of her purchase (of diablo III). Since the law always supercedes contract, Blizzard is more at fault here then any one who only breached some terms they've agreed to in order to play a game which was already purchased and in a non-returnable state, have no other use for their purchase then perhaps as a frisbee.
5. What is up with all of these "accept your consequences" "you can't eat your pudding if you don't eat your meat" responses from users on their first ever post on the forums?! I think these forums are patrolled by Blizzard employees but let's give you the benefit of the doubt.
6. The more users stand up for their rights as defined by law and not by terms the further we can all move towards ending this era of privacy rights abuse by Blizzard.
7. At the very least, if this banwave costs them say in total 5 million $USD, they will think twice before the next banwave, further protecting current users.

 

[Bic420]

The TOS already have been shut down in court in the US.

They cannot sell a game and not accept returns on opened boxes, while at the same time requiring one accept the terms to use, now unreturnable software. Also, even besides that argument, the whole TOS is subject to dispute based on the dispute resolution policy.

For the woman I am advising, Paypal has already also refunded for all transactions over $5.00 in last 45 days. Blizzard has contacted saying as a result of the chargebacks they are not going to allow further use of the RMAH for the account (well if their departments communicated with eachother they would realize this penalty is already active!) Because of the sheer number of paypal transactions, many below $3.00 as a result of wanting instant gold to complete work on the auction house she says, I advised her it would probably be easier just to file disputes on anything over $5.00 (17 paypal transactions totalling over $300 returned, and again we got money back from mastercard, for 5 or so transactions for a total of approximately $150); but since they (paypal claims) have all ended up quickly succeeding in getting a full refund, we are now discussing whether it would be advisable to file paypal claims on the many many "micro" transactions, despite the tediousness, just for sake of completion. Again, paypal only accepts the claims within 45 days, so the remainder of the ~$5000 spent on RMAH is still ongoing negotiations. The better business bureau responded and said they have contacted the company and are awaiting response. We have also sent certified mail to their legal department, both for consistency, and so that in the case the BBB fails, we will have the opportunity to dispute the matter with an AAA arbitrator, at a location convenient to us. The sheer fact that my client is located in Maine might mean that Blizzard would rather refund $5000 then send a representative all the way to Maine. Cheers, hope other members inquiries are being taken as seriously by them and are receiving compensation for their losses! Stand up for your rights! You might be able to get someone to sign a contract to become your slave, but that wouldn't hold up in court either... for all the contract respecting folk out there, remembers the law supercedes!

As for whether the bot is a massive advantage, firstly I did mention she only used the bot for a total of MAXIMUM 10 hours within the past few months. This was all while she was completing other tasks (mostly academic) and opted to watch the bot during these tasks to not lose time/experience by the burden of having to complete such tasks. So by your logic a player with no responsibilities outside of the game also has a significant advantage and is cheating? I really am failng to understand your perception of this situation and what your opinion is based on.

There is one huge flaw in your case, It has been stated several times throughout this forum and others that you can in fact return diablo 3 if you buy the game and then decide to decline the TOS/EULA. So if you accepted the TOS/EULA when you bought the game then your case is instantly void. I also saw that you claimed that in section 7 of the TOS/EULA it states that if you dont have proper means to defend your case the contract will be voided, you then went on to say that blizzard did not adequately provide means to defend your case but the thing is they actually did specially state that if you wanted to continue the conversation you would have to make another ticket, so again that would not hold up for a second.

It seems to be that you have absolutely no intention on pursuing legal action in this matter and are just trying to help others, which is fine but you should really read up on your info because most of it is flat out wrong.

 

[tbgvtr]

"It has been stated several times throughout this forum and others that you can in fact return diablo 3 if you buy the game and then decide to decline the TOS/EULA."

------> This is only when purchased through blizzard, not at a retail outlet. And I cannot even verify the case for if purchased for Blizzard, that is just what I've read, I purchased retail.

"you then went on to say that blizzard did not adequately provide means to defend your case but the thing is they actually did specially state that if you wanted to continue the conversation you would have to make another ticket"

------> Their response to my party was to the tune of, you may create new tickets for other inquiries, but any further inquiries into this subject will not receive a response. They were lying each time, and always gave some response in subsequent inquiries into the same topic, but their words I have on record, and they explicitly state refusal to answer further inquiries on the subject; i.e. negotiate; i.e. as stated severing section 1 of their dispute policy.

"It seems to be that you have absolutely no intention on pursuing legal action in this matter and are just trying to help others, which is fine but you should really read up on your info because most of it is flat out wrong."

------> I've done a lot of reading and that is for my own personal benefit and to help others. Strength in numbers firstly. Secondly my advice to this party comes from correspondences directly between blizzard and I about my own account, which I will refrain from posting details about for privacy purposes.

 

[Bic420]

"It has been stated several times throughout this forum and others that you can in fact return diablo 3 if you buy the game and then decide to decline the TOS/EULA."

------>

This is only when purchased through blizzard, not at a retail outlet.

And I cannot even verify the case for if purchased for Blizzard, that is just what I've read, I purchased retail.

"you then went on to say that blizzard did not adequately provide means to defend your case but the thing is they actually did specially state that if you wanted to continue the conversation you would have to make another ticket"

------> Their response to my party was to the tune of, you may create new tickets for other inquiries,

but any further inquiries into this subject will not receive a response. They were lying each time

, and always gave some response in subsequent inquiries into the same topic,

but their words I have on record, and they explicitly state refusal to answer further inquiries on the subject; i.e. negotiate; i.e. as stated severing section 1 of their dispute policy.

"It seems to be that you have absolutely no intention on pursuing legal action in this matter and are just trying to help others, which is fine but you should really read up on your info because most of it is flat out wrong."

------> I've done a lot of reading and that is for my own personal benefit and to help others. Strength in numbers firstly. Secondly my advice to this party comes from correspondences directly between blizzard and I about my own account, which I will refrain from posting details about for privacy purposes.

-Then your legal matter has nothing to do with blizzard it has to do with the outlet that sold you the product. A court of law will not hold blizzard responsible for another company's actions.


-they were not lying they just had to much evidence against you to unban you. I mean what do you expect them to unban you just because you keep asking over and over? thats not how it works.

They did not refuse to respond to your emails regarding being banned, they simply said they would not respond further to your emails to that specific ticket. they clearly stated you could contact another part of blizzard that would look into your case. Hence, why they would not be severing anything in their dispute policy.

 

[tbgvtr]

-Then your legal matter has nothing to do with blizzard it has to do with the outlet that sold you the product. A court of law will not hold blizzard responsible for another company's actions.

>>>> No, because in the case of retail purchase I am only suggesting to pursue the amount spent on RMAH, not for the physical copy of the game, $60 is nothing compared to what one may have spent on the RMAH. (edit- also the time I called blizzard to ask for a refund for the copy I did tell them the store would not accept open electronic merchandise for returns, and was more or less told by them I was S.O.L.)

-they were not lying they just had to much evidence against you to unban you. I mean what do you expect them to unban you just because you keep asking over and over? thats not how it works.
>>>> if the glove dont fit you must acquit

-They did not refuse to respond to your emails regarding being banned, they simply said they would not respond further to your emails to that specific ticket. they clearly stated you could contact another part of blizzard that would look into your case. Hence, why they would not be severing anything in their dispute policy.

>>>> most of the time they did not give this party any alternate route of contact for the matter regarding rmah compensation or account ban reasoning, and when they did they gave an email that when I called customer service to see what they could/would do, was informed by them that it was a no longer active email.. basically they acted to prevent my party's message from reaching the right department. they certainly never clearly stated my party could contact another part of blizz to look into the case. all correspondences indicated that the investigation had concluded and the penalty would be upheld (refusal to negotiate).

 

[Malacath]

"1. I am advising a 3rd party on this matter, yes we all know/knew the risks, but this party only used it while doing other academic work or cleaning her room etc for about 10 hours since the summer I am told.
She has said to me that since using the program so heavily in the summer, she did not see risk in using it sparingly and supervised for a relatively low amount of hours. At least she thought if there was a risk she would get a preliminary warning. Regardless of knowledge of risk or not, why should one deny their right to appeal, and to enter arbitration. Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land here in america (f*ck yea) and I've yet to be informed of my party or read of another party receiving any compelling evidence of their so-called "violations". (see 4)"

So little violation is no violation, I understand now.

"2. IMO: If there is one position to take that might be said to have "spine" it would be the position to fight Blizzard every step of the way. Not having spine I would liken to letting Blizzard walk all over you because they have set up a situation which allows them to do just so."

Nobody forced us to start botting. They made a situation where using 3rd party programs ppl can gain advantage, SO WHAT? That does not mean you are allowed to use them.

"3. Spending a lot on the RMAH might very well be foolish to some, but to others it is valid, and it is what fuels the botting community, so as a presumed botter yourself, you should be happy that people are willing to spend lots of $ on the RMAH."

I have absolutely no problem with ppl spending thousands of $ on RMAH, but at least if they are botting, even for a short amount of time, they shouldn't be so stupid to do it on their main, or spend that money on a bot account.

"5. What is up with all of these "accept your consequences" "you can't eat your pudding if you don't eat your meat" responses from users on their first ever post on the forums?! I think these forums are patrolled by Blizzard employees but let's give you the benefit of the doubt."

I was a reader only, didn't bother with registration, but these ban-related cries are getting on my nerves.

"7. At the very least, if this banwave costs them say in total 5 million $USD, they will think twice before the next banwave, further protecting current users."

Let's be honest... This protection of legit users... How can you say this when you want to go to court defending cheaters or giving advice to them?^^
We all don't give a shit about legit users, how else could this work?

 

[tbgvtr]

So little violation is no violation, I understand now.
>>> Rather innocent until proven guilty. They've by and large yet to furnish proof in any case I've witnessed or read of.

Nobody forced us to start botting. They made a situation where using 3rd party programs ppl can gain advantage, SO WHAT? That does not mean you are allowed to use them.
>>> Why can't we act as we please? If I own a factory and I use machinery in an assembly line I guess I am cheating then to you?


I have absolutely no problem with ppl spending thousands of $ on RMAH, but at least if they are botting, even for a short amount of time, they shouldn't be so stupid to do it on their main, or spend that money on a bot account.
>>> People have gotten their mule accounts banned or any accounts on same ip as botted account, so the fact that it was used on main is pretty irrelevant; and ive been told it was mainly used to paragon levels, not to gain financial advantage.

Let's be honest... This protection of legit users... How can you say this when you want to go to court defending cheaters or giving advice to them?^^
We all don't give a shit about legit users, how else could this work?
>>> Current BOT users is what I was referring to; and protection from subsequent ban waves. Although, I think botting has a positive effect on the community as a whole; by increasing the amount of good items on the market, making good gear more widely affordable. Yet no matter how common, the perfectly rolled items will always fetch a pretty penny, so the "hit the jackpot" aspect can still arise for regular players and botters alike.

>>>What is your motivation to make botters suffer consequences? If we all felt botting was so morally wrong or even ambiguous I don't think so many of us would be here, it is certainly up for debate but like I mentioned I think botting has a positive effect on the community. It also helps build community structure IMO. Your free to think botting is bad for the community, but can you provide explanation as to why exactly?