Title says it all, and I sincerely hope the threads accusing either side of being the root-cause of the bans are locked and given the appropriate infractions. Now I've only commented on a few of the threads myself, but having seen the pointlessness and finger pointing on both sides, I wanted to give everyone (PvE botters and PvP botters) a bit of perspective on why all of us are responsible for what happened with the HB banwave, and no one side is greater/worse than the other in terms of blame. A number of us lost accounts for 6 months in the ban-wave. I personally lost a second, and while I can understand the frustration, here's a few things both sides should consider and hopefully dwell upon the next inevitable time something like this happens. Make no mistake, it will. No one can say any differently. That being said, here goes:
PvErs: - You guys seem to be the loudest in terms of placing blame upon those of us who used HB for Random PvP or Rated PvP, which is completely understandable given that your particular CRs or Leveling/Farming profiles were also caught in the ban-wave. That being said, the phrase that "PvE botting doesn't affect other players as much as PvP botting" seems to be the go-to argument, and frankly, it couldn't be more wrong. Here's why:
Consider for a moment that raid spot you held/hold. Consider your guild, your guild's worldwide ranking, your boss kill timers, your DPS logs, the charts associated with those logs, and even the favoritism you might receive from your raid leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus these raid encounters. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a raider who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better guilds or even your own. They can't pull the numbers you pull, they can't match your perfect rotation, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're benched, passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your guild's officers or other high-end raid leaders, so their ability to progress is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain the better PvE rewards: (faster gearing, better PvE achievements, better access to better raids/guilds, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. Despite this not being a direct battle between two opposing players, you have undeniably "beaten" them and will always do so. In short, you have directly affected their gameplay and WoW experience.
PvPers - You guys (myself included) were hit the hardest by the banwave, because a large number (or all, if you only used it in Arena) of your HB CRs and botting ability has been shut down as a result of the ban-wave. You (myself included) might have to use another botbase for Arena CRs, and in general, there's some major complications in regards to getting running again.
That being said, consider for a moment that RBG/Arena Roster Spot you held/hold. Consider your rating, your guild's ladder ranking, your damage/interrupts logged, the charts detailing that damage/number of interrupts, and even the favoritism you might receive from your RBG/Arena leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus the teams you face. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a fellow PvPer who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better teams/guilds or even your own. They can't match your damage, your number of interrupts/clutch plays, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your teammates or other high-end RBG/Arena leaders, so their ability to gain rating is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain better high-end PvP rewards (faster gearing, better PvP achievements, better rating/access to better PvP guilds, groups, teams, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. On top of that, given that you're using these CRs/kickbots in rated PvP against other teams on a ranked ladder, your team's damage, clutch interrupts, etc directly affect the other teams' players in ways that could very well (and often do) secure more wins and higher rating climbs in shorter amounts of time, something which all but guarantees your ability to sit on said rating and gain Gladiator status at the end of the season. In short, you directly affect other players' gameplay and WoW experiences along with whoever might be competing with you for that spot.
Conclusion? - It's easy to see how both sides affected other players equally. You can't argue that PvPers affected other players more than PvErs because both sides contributed to other players not having access to the rewards we all sought/seek from the end game. Considering the sheer amount of guilds/teams competing on both fronts, it's easy to see that the actions of both sides using HB to perform necessary functions for success/minimize their chances of failure are of equal "blame" in any kind of argument that can (and sadly did) spring up in the wake of this or future ban-waves. We're all botters, and no one is better than any other when it comes to paying the price for getting caught. That's the lesson I'm trying to instill here, and hopefully it leads to some decent discussion and understanding on both sides. No one should resent anybody. It's pointless, disgusting, and frankly a waste of time altogether.
***EDIT***
This is NOT a post complaining about the removal of Arena from HB. That's done and over with. If that's what you took away from this, then re-read it again to better understand the point and distinction I'm making.
PvErs: - You guys seem to be the loudest in terms of placing blame upon those of us who used HB for Random PvP or Rated PvP, which is completely understandable given that your particular CRs or Leveling/Farming profiles were also caught in the ban-wave. That being said, the phrase that "PvE botting doesn't affect other players as much as PvP botting" seems to be the go-to argument, and frankly, it couldn't be more wrong. Here's why:
Consider for a moment that raid spot you held/hold. Consider your guild, your guild's worldwide ranking, your boss kill timers, your DPS logs, the charts associated with those logs, and even the favoritism you might receive from your raid leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus these raid encounters. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a raider who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better guilds or even your own. They can't pull the numbers you pull, they can't match your perfect rotation, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're benched, passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your guild's officers or other high-end raid leaders, so their ability to progress is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain the better PvE rewards: (faster gearing, better PvE achievements, better access to better raids/guilds, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. Despite this not being a direct battle between two opposing players, you have undeniably "beaten" them and will always do so. In short, you have directly affected their gameplay and WoW experience.
PvPers - You guys (myself included) were hit the hardest by the banwave, because a large number (or all, if you only used it in Arena) of your HB CRs and botting ability has been shut down as a result of the ban-wave. You (myself included) might have to use another botbase for Arena CRs, and in general, there's some major complications in regards to getting running again.
That being said, consider for a moment that RBG/Arena Roster Spot you held/hold. Consider your rating, your guild's ladder ranking, your damage/interrupts logged, the charts detailing that damage/number of interrupts, and even the favoritism you might receive from your RBG/Arena leader for every night that you pull those amazing numbers, with that amazing awareness, or whatever other amazing feats you might be accomplishing versus the teams you face. Having considered those things, place yourself in the shoes of a fellow PvPer who knows nothing about HB CRs or any other competitive Bots + CRs and signs up weekly, logs in daily, or even checks monthly to see if there's a spot for them in one of the better teams/guilds or even your own. They can't match your damage, your number of interrupts/clutch plays, your perfect combination of awareness, etc., so they're passed over for you directly, or denied a spot entirely. You're setting the bar (especially if they play the same class), and they have no means of possibly reaching it. On the same note, they aren't noticed or talked about amongst your teammates or other high-end RBG/Arena leaders, so their ability to gain rating is directly hindered by your inability to mess up. You gain better high-end PvP rewards (faster gearing, better PvP achievements, better rating/access to better PvP guilds, groups, teams, etc.) whereas they're left wondering what on earth they have to do to be in your position. On top of that, given that you're using these CRs/kickbots in rated PvP against other teams on a ranked ladder, your team's damage, clutch interrupts, etc directly affect the other teams' players in ways that could very well (and often do) secure more wins and higher rating climbs in shorter amounts of time, something which all but guarantees your ability to sit on said rating and gain Gladiator status at the end of the season. In short, you directly affect other players' gameplay and WoW experiences along with whoever might be competing with you for that spot.
Conclusion? - It's easy to see how both sides affected other players equally. You can't argue that PvPers affected other players more than PvErs because both sides contributed to other players not having access to the rewards we all sought/seek from the end game. Considering the sheer amount of guilds/teams competing on both fronts, it's easy to see that the actions of both sides using HB to perform necessary functions for success/minimize their chances of failure are of equal "blame" in any kind of argument that can (and sadly did) spring up in the wake of this or future ban-waves. We're all botters, and no one is better than any other when it comes to paying the price for getting caught. That's the lesson I'm trying to instill here, and hopefully it leads to some decent discussion and understanding on both sides. No one should resent anybody. It's pointless, disgusting, and frankly a waste of time altogether.
***EDIT***
This is NOT a post complaining about the removal of Arena from HB. That's done and over with. If that's what you took away from this, then re-read it again to better understand the point and distinction I'm making.
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