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the Turing test

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13) don't (always) take the most efficient or shortest path.
This rule may not seem very important, but as simple as it is it answers 2 issues:
a) Very often corners and turns are taken too sharply, getting the bot stuck in doors, exits or whatever.
b) A toon that walks the edges of cliffs or hills looks quite daring but certainly not like any average player who would be much too afraid to slip and fall just like in real life.
I see (a) and (b) happening very often with all kind of profiles. A more prudent path would look not only more natural, it would be more effective in the long run.

edit: I just had a toon, standing too close to a camp fire, trying to mount and getting interrupted each time by fire damage!
 
odarn said:
13) don't (always) take the most efficient or shortest path.
This rule may not seem very important, but as simple as it is it answers 2 issues:
a) Very often corners and turns are taken too sharply, getting the bot stuck in doors, exits or whatever.
b) A toon that walks the edges of cliffs or hills looks quite daring but certainly not like any average player who would be much too afraid to slip and fall just like in real life.
I see (a) and (b) happening very often with all kind of profiles. A more prudent path would look not only more natural, it would be more effective in the long run.

edit: I just had a toon, standing too close to a camp fire, trying to mount and getting interrupted each time by fire damage!
Click to expand...

I find it more often that Honorbuddy will take weird oblong paths especially around blackspots, which in my opinion makes the blackspot misconstrewed to think that if I make this circle of 6 yards a "dead zone," the bot will think that since that area is bad, the 10 yards around it is also bad, and will make very awkward paths to avoid nearly double or triple this area. However when there are no blackspots it can get clipped on very small protrusions like the molding of buildings, gameobjects, ..etc.

One of the developers mentioned something in regards to this, especially in regards to Draenei and Tauren, that there's really no more tweaking that can be done without giving something else up. I personally wish the bot made curved paths and broke free from CTM (click to move), but that would take reworking the entire navigational system while flying and native flying should be more pertinent.

Campfires and such are a responsibility for profile writers to blacklist, if it's super close to a NPC or something though then it should probably be remeshed into the area, not the simplest of fixes.
 
Yes. I had the same experience with a tauren getting stuck at almost every door or small space. Cava told me it was not profile related, and now i understand from you that it would not be easy to fix. But the rule is mostly targeting profile writers who do have a tendency to draw very sharp paths. This can be easily avoided when writing a new profile or fixing an old one.
 
21) Give priority to quest mobs
[very often the bot seems to attack any hostile mob except the one it should target first, giving every opportunity to other players to tag the quest mobs. And if there are one or two human players, the toon takes 2 or 3 times as long to finish the quest. You just have to hope that human players don't keep coming while you are AFK.].
 
odarn said:
15) Avoid obstacles in a natural way. Is it a stair/step/threshold? A tree? A wall? A hole? Going a few steps back, then to the side, then forward again looks very "botty". Keep a dynamic database of those glitches, usable by every toon. [no use putting it on the internet, it would be sabotaged immediately by blizz].
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Sometimes the first jump is enough to get over the obstacle, but the the toon setps back to the same position it was in before strafing right or left and then forward again. The fact that the sequence is the same at every situation makes it a little awkward.
 
1) never run in a straight line if there are mobs ahead. grind your way thru if necessary, avoid when you can
This rule seems to be already taken care of by the Kill Between Hotspots setting. Still, as always, the setting is a yes or no decision. We humans can make decision D in one situation, and reject in another. In this case, i would say: is the quest item or giver still far away? Then run through as fast as you can. Are you near your objective, which means you will have to stop soon? Then better take care of the mobs first, instead of pulling them all to where you will stop.

edit: I know that our 3 titans, (in order of appearance, Kicks, Cava and Brodie) very often put such a directive where they deem it necessary, and that would be exactly what I mean. There seems, on the other hand, to be a general consensus among the profile writers concerning the quality of the gear. It looks like, very often, that only a toon laden with heirlooms and enchants would have any chance of surviving many situations our dear writers (may the gods of Azeroth lengthen their lives) put our toons in.
 
It is doable, but you has to code every question, every answer and don't forget the versions with the issues in it.
 
Menaxerius said:
It is doable, but you has to code every question, every answer and don't forget the versions with the issues in it.
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Like I said, all these rules are no absolute, and I am far from finished. You can always discover a new rule which you did not think of before. If a bot had to apply all rules all the time, it would just stop moving for a very long time after each move. It is up to the profilewriters to chose which and when to apply. This is no different from what is happening now, and the core developpers are creating new rules all the time.
 
odarn said:
13) don't (always) take the most efficient or shortest path.
This rule may not seem very important, but as simple as it is it answers 2 issues:
a) Very often corners and turns are taken too sharply, getting the bot stuck in doors, exits or whatever.
b) A toon that walks the edges of cliffs or hills looks quite daring but certainly not like any average player who would be much too afraid to slip and fall just like in real life.
I see (a) and (b) happening very often with all kind of profiles. A more prudent path would look not only more natural, it would be more effective in the long run.

edit: I just had a toon, standing too close to a camp fire, trying to mount and getting interrupted each time by fire damage!
Click to expand...
edit2:
The last changelog said: "Navigator anti edge hugging system has been added. Points generated will no longer be close to non meshed areas (like building corners). This greatly increases the smoothness of path following."
 
22) Leave inaccessible mobs alone.
[Blizzard creates intentionally mobs that you cannot touch (but who often can hurt you), which keep the bot standing as hypnotized in the same spot. There is one in the Murloc camp near the logging camp in elwynn forst, another in the fargo mine, one cultist on a platform in the blasted lands, and many more.
Also, when an npc, a questgiver, gets killed by pvp'ers, the toon keeps trying to communicate with it. This looks rather strange.]
This goes also for cases where the target is "not within sight" for one reason or another. For instance, when it is, partially, hidden by a door, a wall or some other object. The toon keeps fixated on the half hidden target, ignoring the other mobs attacking it.
 
23) Don't' talk to npc's through walls. (Happens at leat once, in goldshire with the questgiver in the inn, william something).
 
24) Do not run after a mob while you are being attacked by others.
[the toon wants to finish off its target, and ignores the ones attacking it while it is pursuing its original target, which most probably will lead it to still more others. That, while it is being hacked on all the while, and reaches its target in a weakened state.]
 
12) never go back and forth like you have lost your mind.

edit: a variation on this is the latest development: toon sees 2 mobs and doesn't seem able to chose which one to target (especially if one is a quest mob): it starts shaking like it is trying to do the moonwalk but doesn't know how. In this case, please, just chose any target! That shaking says Bot!
 
13) don't (always) take the most efficient or shortest path.
The last mesh version takes into account sharp turns and edges, which is really a great improvement.
I would like to break a lance for another aspect of this rule: the bot does not pay any attention to what comes in its path, until the combat bot takes over. That means that the navigation path goes straight through mobs and mobs infested regions. With the Killbetweenhotspots unchecked, its is very often a very efficient solution, but so unlike human behavior that it cannot but draw attention. Humans, or at least I do, do not just run towards a mob they have no intention of attacking. They will alway try to avoid it. I know that it would be very difficult to compute the threat range of all the mobs in the toon's path and still keep the toon running/riding at a reasonable speed. But even an unsuccessful zigzag would look more natural than the straight line.
What i mean by that:
- toon sees mob on its path,
- deviates from its path
- resumes its path.

There are very few regions where the number of mobs is so low that this zigzag would make any difference, but the point is to display human-like behavior, not to avoid all mobs.
 
25) Avoid resting and consuming food/drinks in the path of mobs you are supposed to avoid.

[the whole issues of avoid mobs is rather complicated. As far as I know. there is only one tool available: Blackspots. But that is a rather indiscriminate tool. Very often, the toon has to be in the area where the to avoid mob is. Maybe there should be more tools. like:
- preferred paths,
- preferably to avoid paths.
That would at least prevent the toon from picnicking on a dangerous spot! And also staying too long on dangerous paths, and thus preferably targeting mobs that are on safer grounds.
 
26) Don't use a ground mount after level 60.

["Something that has bothered me for a LONG time: As soon as my toon hits level 60 (questing bot), it should NEVER NEVER NEVER use a ground mount again, PERIOD. Why would a real player use a ground mount after learning flying? HE WOULDN'T. EVER. The bot should act the same." by Solo1420]
 
27) Don't go on collecting quest items while being attacked. That is a sure way to get killed!

[this happens for instance in the slag pit, searing gorge, with the collecting of pillows]
 
odarn said:
25) Avoid resting and consuming food/drinks in the path of mobs you are supposed to avoid.

[the whole issues of avoiding mobs is rather complicated. As far as I know. there is only one tool available: Blackspots. But that is a rather indiscriminate tool. Very often, the toon has to be in the area where the to avoid mob is. Maybe there should be more tools. like:
- preferred paths,
- preferably to avoid paths.
That would at least prevent the toon from picnicking on a dangerous spot! And also staying too long on dangerous paths, and thus preferably targeting mobs that are on safer grounds.
Click to expand...

and please? KEEP OUT OF THE LAVA!!!!!!!

i am leveling a warlock, and not only is it not keeping out of the lava, it keeps leaving the pet to deal with attackers to go pull some more! A very short attention span with a very short life-expectancy!
 
odarn said:
14) user input has always priority.[there is nothing so frustrating then helping your toon over an obstacle and then see him retrace his steps back into the same trap!]
Click to expand...

There is of course a plugin that stops HB as soon as the user hits a key, but I think that it should part of the HB-core. After all, we want our bots to avoid detection as much as possible, and not everybody takes the time to go through all the posts in the forums.
Another implementation of this rule I would really like to see happen, is the priority of the user settings, above any instruction in a profile. Profile writers have very personal views on when certain settings should be (un)checked, and I must say that I find myself very often disagreeing with them (I am not naming anyone, nor am I excluding anyone, they all do it). I hate it when i change something in the user setting, just to find out that is has been set back to the likings of the author (a kind of executive privilege). I do not always feel like opening the xml file and looking for the culprit. So please, give priority to the user!
 
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