[Guide] What to expect in 1.05, effective farming and why not to worry about builds!

[beardi]

" It doesn’t give you a chance to get more items on a given kill – instead, it increases the chance that an item you find will be magical, and more potent than it would be otherwise." you get more rares and better rolls with higher MF. so in directly you get more rares with more MF. i guess that takes it to your point that the better roll only increases by 1% with more mf

Again, when I say it doesn't effect it the reason is in the 3rd quote in my original post, the increase in MF (even the difference between 0MF and 1000MF is a 3% increase in drops) which is:
1) unobtainable and
2) unrealistic for effective farming (#of rares per hour)

 

[Makaronnik]

Does MP affects mob damage?

 

[beardi]

Does MP affects mob damage?

Yes, higher MP levels increase monster HP/Armor/Resists/Damage, also damaging affixes on elites are increased the higher MP level you go (reflect/arcane/molten etc).

 

[fasteddie78]

Higher MF has no effect on the # of drops, only the affixes assigned.

This is incorrect. The simplest way I can explain it is like this. Say you farm 100 items with 1000MF and you then farm 100 items with 0MF. With no regard to the time it takes to kill mobs and just based on number of total drops to get your 100 items, with 1000MF you will obtain the 100 4/5/6 affix items faster then you would with 0MF. So lets say you had 1000 total drops with 0 MF and you received 100 4/5/6 affix yellows. It would take you less than 1000 total drops to receive the same amount of 100 4/5/6 affix yellows AND the overall quality of the 100 items would be higher by the percentages you listed in your quote from diablofans above. I hope this clears this up.

So there is a benefit to you farming higher than MP1 as long as you can kill the mobs and be efficient enough to keep up with the percentage curve of the drops. There is a bunch of data in that thread on diablo fans and I am not sure what the exact percentages are and where that magical line is for every ones farmer but I guess you will have to make that determination on a case by case basis.

 

[beardi]

This is incorrect. The simplest way I can explain it is like this. Say you farm 100 items with 1000MF and you then farm 100 items with 0MF. With no regard to the time it takes to kill mobs and just based on number of total drops to get your 100 items, with 1000MF you will obtain the 100 4/5/6 affix items faster then you would with 0MF. So lets say you had 1000 total drops with 0 MF and you received 100 4/5/6 affix yellows. It would take you less than 1000 total drops to receive the same amount of 100 4/5/6 affix yellows AND the overall quality of the 100 items would be higher by the percentages you listed in your quote from diablofans above. I hope this clears this up.

So there is a benefit to you farming higher than MP1 as long as you can kill the mobs and be efficient enough to keep up with the percentage curve of the drops. There is a bunch of data in that thread on diablo fans and I am not sure what the exact percentages are and where that magical line is for every ones farmer but I guess you will have to make that determination on a case by case basis.

I hear you, I'll have a read tomorrow

Updated: It seems that it's not actually a curve as such, seems to follow a reasonably linear relationship that works out to a 1% increase in yellow drops per 25% MF.

This ties in with my other point being that you will receive increased drops in higher MP's and of better quality, however for effective farming you'd have to complete the higher levels in just a little more time than MP1 to make it worth it.

But thanks for making me think a bit

 

[cfong]

beardi: thanks for the info. What about the effect of proc nerfs on CM/SC builds? Convert to CM/WW? And dont worry about compensating with more ChC or AS because the monsters are weak in MP1?

 

[beardi]

Build's I don't really know what's going to be best, I'm probably going to run a pure DPS build that focuses on Archon - Teleport combined with high mobility skills like Storm Armor Scramble and Wormhole, but that's just me Anyway not really the topic to discuss specific class builds, more of an outline on all of them

 

[quinnito]

Effects of MP1 (+25% MF) compared to MP10 (+250% MF) on # of higher affix rolls:

As you can see from quote 2:
With 0 base MF the difference between MP1 and MP10 (225%) in 6-affix rolls is less than a 1% increase.
With 300 base MF the difference between MP1 and MP10 in 6-affix rolls is less than the increase stated above (diminishing returns as MF increases).

Thanks for taking a look at this but I think the bolded part of this quote is wrong. And here's why. This is info from the tables you site:

MF NV White Magic Rare
75 5 26.30 38.89 34.76
300 5 23.19 27.48 49.11

So there's about a 40% increase in the drop rate of rares going from 0% MF w/ 5 stacks of NV to 225% MF w/ 5 stacks of NV. This goes up to about a 100% increase in the drop rate of rares if you disregard the automatic rare drop of the 5 stack. Overall I still think you're right that farming at MP1 makes the most sense, especially when you already have high MF, less so with lower MF. I also think some of the percentages you use can be confusing (i.e. a 1% increase in rare drops, what this really means is for every 100 drops you'll get on average one more rare, but if you're dropping 30 rares and then bump up to 31 rares, what you'll notice is that you get 3% more rares than you did before).

 

[beardi]

Thanks for taking a look at this but I think the bolded part of this quote is wrong. And here's why. This is info from the tables you site:

MF NV White Magic Rare
75 5 26.30 38.89 34.76
300 5 23.19 27.48 49.11

So there's about a 40% increase in the drop rate of rares going from 0% MF w/ 5 stacks of NV to 225% MF w/ 5 stacks of NV. This goes up to about a 100% increase in the drop rate of rares if you disregard the automatic rare drop of the 5 stack. Overall I still think you're right that farming at MP1 makes the most sense, especially when you already have high MF, less so with lower MF. I also think some of the percentages you use can be confusing (i.e. a 1% increase in rare drops, what this really means is for every 100 drops you'll get on average one more rare, but if you're dropping 30 rares and then bump up to 31 rares, what you'll notice is that you get 3% more rares than you did before).

The bolded part you quoted is regarding the effects on affix chances per rare, not the total number of 6-affix rares, (I think I need to explain it better there, have a little re-write lol)

Seems I have to look at a few things, however even with a 'respective' 40% increase in rare drops from 0-225% MF, MP1 would still be better because MP10 takes much more than 40% more time. But hey it's late so I'll do some tweaks tomorrow.

 

[mephuser1000]

The bolded part you quoted is regarding the effects on affix chances per rare, not the total number of 6-affix rares, (I think I need to explain it better there, have a little re-write lol)

Seems I have to look at a few things, however even with a 'respective' 40% increase in rare drops from 0-225% MF, MP1 would still be better because MP10 takes much more than 40% more time. But hey it's late so I'll do some tweaks tomorrow.

Can I assume that 1.05 makes the quoted info from this link obsolete? -> Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight - Theorycrafting and Analysis - Diablo Discussion and Community Forums - DiabloFans.com

4.4 Number of items found as a function of magic find
The sample size is not the largest, but I honestly think it's large enough to illustrate the finding that magic find does not increase the number of items found.

 

[arielmz]

lol... u just missing some points on this post... since 1.0.4 drops goes per mob not anymore per lvl range... and 1.0.5 wont be different... although u might get more rares on act1 u still wont see any worth legendary 61+...

Also blizz stated that mf affects roll, so doing mp10 at max mf will mostly get 70% worth itens while mp1 will get 20% worth items, also there may be some overcapped(higher stats then the max should allow) itens due to that...

I still don't see it being worth farming other acts then act3 and mp10 will be really good if any can handle.

 

[beardi]

lol... u just missing some points on this post... since 1.0.4 drops goes per mob not anymore per lvl range... and 1.0.5 wont be different... although u might get more rares on act1 u still wont see any worth legendary 61+...

Also blizz stated that mf affects roll, so doing mp10 at max mf will mostly get 70% worth itens while mp1 will get 20% worth items, also there may be some overcapped(higher stats then the max should allow) itens due to that...

I still don't see it being worth farming other acts then act3 and mp10 will be really good if any can handle.

You seem to have missed the point completely. Mobs in MP10 have 34x the HP of those in MP1, the time that it takes isn't worth it unless you get roughly 34x more items from MP10, which (as illustrated) is not the case.

 

[mephuser1000]

You seem to have missed the point completely. Mobs in MP10 have 34x the HP of those in MP1, the time that it takes isn't worth it unless you get roughly 34x more items from MP10, which (as illustrated) is not the case.

I guess the PTR is going to take awhile longer since apparently Blizzard game designers is unable to make the MP10-timesink an appealing bait.

 

[arielmz]

You seem to have missed the point completely. Mobs in MP10 have 34x the HP of those in MP1, the time that it takes isn't worth it unless you get roughly 34x more items from MP10, which (as illustrated) is not the case.

Not necessarily u will go MP10... my point is... legendarys still drops alike... since their bound to monsters not lvl...

MF affects rolls, at 375% most legendarys have at last 1 roll nearly fully stats, at mp 10 +250% thats surely gonna have 2-3 stats maxed... but they can also remove that roll cap making mp5+ drop items with twice the stats and alike...

And alot of people is able to handle mp5 already... and some will be able to run mp 8 as sons as it releases... so mp10 is a matter of time... and they will also probably nerf it on full release.

 

[snoweey]

This is a great guide thanks

 

[beardi]

Not necessarily u will go MP10... my point is... legendarys still drops alike... since their bound to monsters not lvl...

MF affects rolls, at 375% most legendarys have at last 1 roll nearly fully stats, at mp 10 +250% thats surely gonna have 2-3 stats maxed... but they can also remove that roll cap making mp5+ drop items with twice the stats and alike...

And alot of people is able to handle mp5 already... and some will be able to run mp 8 as sons as it releases... so mp10 is a matter of time... and they will also probably nerf it on full release.

Please read and understand this guide: Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight - Theorycrafting and Analysis - Diablo Discussion and Community Forums - DiabloFans.com regarding MF and it's effect on pretty much everything.

MF has NO effect on the quality of a roll (eg if the slot is 100-150 int, it makes no difference if you have 1000 mf or 0, it will always roll randomly), and the chance of a higher affix roll is so marginal at higher MP levels that again, because of the SPEED that it takes to complete a higher MP level, it is less efficient.

You WILL get better drops at higher MP levels, I'm not disputing that, however if you've timed the difference between a full clear of A3 on MP1, and the same clear on MP5, you're looking at at least double the time taken to clear it. And in 2 full clears of MP1 you will get better items OVERALL than in 1 clear of MP5.

 

[arielmz]

Please read and understand this guide: Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight - Theorycrafting and Analysis - Diablo Discussion and Community Forums - DiabloFans.com regarding MF and it's effect on pretty much everything.

MF has NO effect on the quality of a roll (eg if the slot is 100-150 int, it makes no difference if you have 1000 mf or 0, it will always roll randomly), and the chance of a higher affix roll is so marginal at higher MP levels that again, because of the SPEED that it takes to complete a higher MP level, it is less efficient.

You WILL get better drops at higher MP levels, I'm not disputing that, however if you've timed the difference between a full clear of A3 on MP1, and the same clear on MP5, you're looking at at least double the time taken to clear it. And in 2 full clears of MP1 you will get better items OVERALL than in 1 clear of MP5.

Well during one of the patchs one of the dev's did confirm on the forum that it does affect average stats... and from my drops I pretty much get same legendary crap over a 200%mf and almost perfect on 375%mf... that may not affect rares itself... I got about 30 windforce between 2 acc with 350%mf and 200% mf the one with 350%mf overall had the windforces better...(highers stats rolls/average +100-150 dps /socket)...
But everyone has it own opinion. ^^

And still the ptr is nothing more then a test... most will be fix till MP is worth for the hassle.

And about the speed... thats depends on what u have there mate... at mp3-4 I will still take same time as at mp1 cuz its running time not killing

 

[Gingerbread]

For the people that don't like reading links MF works like this.

For every item that is dropped the game decides on the ilvl of the drop. MF has NO effect on this roll.

Next up the game determines the quality of the item (white/blue/yellow/legendary) MF affects this roll.

Then the game decides on number of affixes/suffixes an item gets. MF affects this roll too.

Finally the game decides what each property rolls as. MF has NO affect here. The higher the ilvl of the item then the larger the base stats start off. So in general a i63 item will roll higher stats than an i61 item.

High levels of MF increase the number of items dropped that are rare or legendary quality significantly over low levels of MF. High MF also increases the number of properties and the values of those properties that an item has because it allows more chances for the game to roll a good stat on an item.

 

[Gingerbread]

Well during one of the patchs one of the dev's did confirm on the forum that it does affect average stats...

Yes it does. We are talking averages over a lot of items though. On average items found with high MF will have better stat rolls than items of equivalent ilvl found with lower MF.

It's not a huge difference though and it hapens because the number of properties an item has is affected by MF.

Some properties are split between 2 stats, str&vit for example so if one of your slots gets the str&vit property and you also get a plain str property for another slot then the str value you ultimately end up with has a higher chance of being decent. If both the stat rolls are good you get a great str value, if a is poor and b is good you get an OK value, same as if b is poor and a is good, (note thats 2 chances to get an OK value) and if both are poor then it has a bad str value.

If we assume for the sake of argument that all those chances are equal (they aren't in practice but that just makes things more complicated) then for a item that has a str&vit property as well as a str property 1 time in 4 it gets a great str stat, 2 times in 4 it gets OK stats and 1 time in 4 it gets bad stats.

Compare that to an item that only has a str roll once, 1 time in 3 it gets good stats(but never great), 1 time in 3 it gets OK stats, and 1 time in 3 it gets poor stats.

In this over simplified example you can see that despite the fact that MF has NO affect on the actual values rolled themselves, because there are more of them and because properties can be split between 2 values, and can overlap then:

"on average" higher MF leads to higher stats on items.

What the actual difference is is really hard to quantify.

 

[arielmz]

Was thinking exactly about that, wonder if each affixes follow the item ilvl or if it can roll as ilvl62 or ilvl61... that would allow then to place some ilvl64 and ilvl65 afixes for high mp.

Well there are some rules on the properties not sure actually how they apply... but I have never seen an legendary armor with +300vit (i63 max for vit on amor) that would allow +400vit max, mostly it will come capped at (100base) +100max from i61 max (rare already to see somes at 200vit).