Developer Rules Update

[Toney001]

As hawker states in the first thread, they're changing the rules because so many developers are absent from their projects. So the way it was before, the updates that other people made was not being implemented in the original project.

Yeah, that'd be great except it's being expanded to include projects actively being worked on (again, like Kick's profiles).

 

[Dagradt]

I agree with Tony001,

If the Thread(CC) is dead then it should be archived and deemed open source. This is to say if a thread(CC) has been "Abandoned" or "Is without DL's, posts, etc." then archive it and deem it available to the public for shredding as they see fit.

If the thread(CC) is still being maintained, leave well alone, the system works... Need we change it?

 

[kayes]

Im happy that this have been brought up and discussed.

TBH im abit frustrated that the CC's don't have a permanent developer working for HB. The rotations and playstyle for each and every build and situations change all the time. The only problem as in many other sides of HB are the "community based developement" which in my eyes is a huge drawback when you look at HB as a whole. There is only a handfull of the developers who sustain their development of their code, and I strongly mean that a pat on the back and some click on their stars to give rep is not enough.

I see several good developers who make something very good. I also see that if they worked more togheter as a team it would not stop there. The developement would progress and we would see a faster developement of the CC's and all the situations they should be able to handle.

I, as a user find it tedious to keep myself updated on all the CC's out there. As a paladin I need one CC for tanking, one for dps and one for healing. I would love to load Singular which have movement, and work well with all bots instead of loading 3 different ones. Also, new users load non movement CC's ment for lazyrider when useing GB2, and can't for the love of god understand why "that stupid bot is broken when the toon wont face the mob that attacks."

I know I went abit off topic here, but my point is as I have said many times before: Award the devs that do a good job maintaining their code. Developing a versatile CC is almost as important as spending huge amount of manhours figuring out why a toon won't move up the tower in AV (movement), or why the latest version of HB crash on some systems (stability)

 

[Hawker]

Im happy that this have been brought up and discussed.

TBH im abit frustrated that the CC's don't have a permanent developer working for HB.

...snip...

We have hired HighVoltz to maintain Singular. As far as I can see, it works great now.

 

[Toney001]

We have hired HighVoltz to maintain Singular. As far as I can see, it works great now.

HV is amazing. I'm really glad you guys did this.

 

[kayes]

We have hired HighVoltz to maintain Singular. As far as I can see, it works great now.

Sounds good. I hope we can keep HV forever and ever

Right now I overwrote Phelon's new PVP firemage update for singular, and it broke my Singular disc priest.

Could not compile CC from C:\Users\ratata\Desktop\HB - Charname\CustomClasses\Singular!

It is stuff like this that frustrates me.

EDIT: Would you guys maybe consider spliting up Singular now, forumwise. One for each class. Would be much easier to report back for the members when changes are done.

 

[Croga]

Right now I overwrote Phelon's new PVP firemage update for singular, and it broke my Singular disc priest.
It is stuff like this that frustrates me.

yeah.... people publishing a partial update to a fully working CC should be.... well..... okay, let's just say that I don't like it. At all.

I personally support this decision wholeheartedly. It won't change the fact that I ask for permission whenever I reuse someone's code (and I have. My dailies profile is 90% kick, 2% katzerle and 8% my own stuff. Katz was, unfortunately, MIA when I started this) but it will allow me to go on working when and if I don't get a reply. Common courtesy should still be used of course.

In the end, as Isaac said: "There is a single light of Science and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere". For the good of the community it is best if everyone can learn from anyone.

 

[Ama]

What was wrong with the previous set of rules? If you want more CCs in the community, why not release some helper classes for people to use? or update the tutorial?

My main concern with the rule changes is that it encourages beginners to take shortcuts. People are going to be releasing CCs without gaining an understanding of how CCs work or really understanding what is happening in the CC they release. When this happens, they won't know how to maintain it. Yes natural selection will allow good CCs to survive and poor one's to be archived, but a lot of user's will be really frustrated in the process.

I'm sure the CCs that will be copied the most will be the BT ones. These are the ones few people really understand and a lot of people want to make. You guys have said you don't want to make a tutorial or support beginners making BT CCs.

Since this is happening, you guys should at least make a forum section for featured CCs. CCs like Fpsware and CLU don't deserve to be placed in the same location as a bunch of copy and pasted CCs.

 

[Croga]

My main concern with the rule changes is that it encourages beginners to take shortcuts.

It also encourages beginners to..... actually begin. Since they won't have to understand every aspect of a CC to be able to write one, it will be a lot easier to actually start CC development.

If no new people start writing CCs you will never have great new CCs.
If a lot of new people start writing CCs you will have some crap but there will also be great new CCs.
In case 1 the pool will soon dry up and we'll all be useing more of the same.
In case 2 the bad CCs will be dropped soon enough whilst the good ones will surface and create a greater pool, thus increasing overall quality.

 

[wownerds]

From the comments posted, I see a tendency towards active CC developers, who invest days, weeks and even months of their own free time into the development of awesome features, getting really pissed and, maybe, stopping their work.

Imo, this is not the right way to go.

In addition, jasf10 got a point concerning the upcoming of a lot of "low-standart" CCs, which might frustrate users and annoy other developers.

 

[raphus]

The main point here is to help improving the community releases. Personally, I've spent a lot of time on volunteered projects before i got in the dev team. My sole purpose was to help community and that was what i was enjoying while doing so.

Singular is the perfect example for the current rules. Apoc and me have spent more time on Singular then we do for HB's core. It turned into a great project, because we never rejected any edit or whatsoever. I feel glad, when someone posts a modified version of any rotation. If it was just 2 of us, singular would have never been in it's current state.

My last words is that, if you are creating/working on a project for Honorbuddy, your only purpose should be helping the community. If someone else uses your code, or even takes your whole project and changes a single line of it, you should be happy to have better projects that everyone can use.

As a side note, the buddy team has always been supportive to third party volunteered developers to encourage their work. There are several examples on the boards.

 

[wulf]

In regards to CC's I think most of these were derived from some form of Core.
Some Cores I consider: Felmaster, Fpsware, Singular, CnG's CC tutorial (where I first developed Deathstrike).

Maybe it would be prudent to perform a quick audit on each CC and create an Area on the forum for Core CC's (That are more than 2000-3000 lines of code, well structured, Supported, subject to peer approval)
then Sub forums for Forks of these Core CC's with the proviso that you state in your original post what core is powering your CC.

Of course there will be some point in time when the Fork of the Core CC has as much if not more functionality (subject to moderator approval) than the original Core and would be appened to the list of Core CC's.

This way Cores may become abandonware and archived but the developers will maintain there credit. (at least until there core is superseded)

There are many benefits of this;-

1. Easier on moderators to resolve disputes
2. Developers that spend every other hour developing there core are rewarded
3. Developers of cores can easily see their Forks
4. Fork developers gain satisfaction that they are contributing to the community
5. The sharing of code in an "Open Source Community" is encouraged therfore no disputes about copy/pasting
6. Tinkerers "I want to make small changes" can Fork the core without the wrath of the core developer (possibly comming up with good changes/additions)
7. Hobbyists "I want to build and maintain something" can fork the core and make and support there improvements, with the possiblility of creating a core themselves.
8. Code Bounty Hunters "I want to code something a user requests/needs for profit" can well...I dont know I think these are also classed as donation hunters
9. End Users "I just want it to work" can contribute by providing feedback to the core and fork developers strengthening the community. They are also able to gain support that the fork developer is unable to provide by checking with the core developer.

Maybe a structure like;

Classes
======> Deathknight
======> Mage
---------------->Core
------------------------[C]ArcanBlaster
------------------------[C]MagePowerextreme
......................>Forks
................................[F]Arcanblaster_surpreme
................................[F]Arcanblaster_ultimate
................................[F]MagePowerextreme_ultimatedition
======> Warlock


And finally I would have assumed when you release source code your generaly hoping that other people will build on it and improve it

 

[mastahg]

Here's the deal with my CC's, none of my code is hosted anywhere on any of your severs, so it would be illegal for you to force a different licence on any of the work that I deploy. If anyone were to take my CC, modify and rehost I hope that you respect my wishes and have it removed as you had in the past (powerfrost).

 

[swiny]

Wait so let me get this right?

people spend endless nights coding, for some 1 to come and take it, give tiny credits and b lyke yeah i g0t teh ub3r coding skills...??
yet the people who stay up

This is the dumbest thing i have ever herd hands down..

 

[mastahg]

Wait so let me get this right?

people spend endless nights coding, for some 1 to come and take it, give tiny credits and b lyke yeah i g0t teh ub3r coding skills...??
yet the people who stay up

This is the dumbest thing i have ever herd hands down..

This.

 

[Natfoth]

I totally understand their reasoning behind it and wanting to develop the community, but it was doing just fine when it was under the "honesty" you ask for permission to use parts or fork it to something and most of the time developers are very open. But I believe it should be left to the developers to decide that. At least put exceptions so people just cant take work, I dont mind if people take parts out of code at all it is how it works. I just don't like taking a whole project and modify it without permission.

 

[swiny]

this is just going to drive the developer community who do help out and create stuff and spend ENDLESS nights coding,
to just stop coding, im sure people are deffently thinking about it, i myself wont be doing anything more publicly.

in the end, honorbuddy will be losing out, you will have people who REALLY cannot code, who just copy paste code, then there will be issues with it.
then there will be more stupid CC's, more questions like 'why my cc not doing this', 'how do i make it cast a spell....' then when the expansion comes out,
all there really will be is singular, because all the GOOD coders left.
and lets face it, majority of the CC's are Copy Pasted by people who dont have the slightest clue. theres only a handfull who actually still take the time,
and some of them are posting in this forum....

like look i came from no where, started coding for honorbuddy 3 months ago.
now im #6th on the rep... WHY

because i actually gave a shit about honorbuddy 3 months ago?
started making stuff that was needed....

but now look where its heading.. its just dieing due to shit like this.
ive had my shit removed, ive had my ban's protesting things that NEEDED to be done,
just to keep this thing alive...

 

[wulf]

Wait so let me get this right?

people spend endless nights coding, for some 1 to come and take it, give tiny credits and b lyke yeah i g0t teh ub3r coding skills...??
yet the people who stay up

This is the dumbest thing i have ever herd hands down..

I didn't know this was all about how big someone's epeen was, it seems to me certain HB members/developers are more concerned about being the master of the own universe as far as programming goes than helping a community...quite sad really.

I think if people are developing code for praise, admiration or profit then they should create there own website and not post "source code" on a public forum.

 

[swiny]

I didn't know this was all about how big someone's epeen was, it seems to me certain HB members/developers are more concerned about being the master of the own universe as far as programming goes than helping a community...quite sad really.

I think if people are developing code for praise, admiration or profit then they should create there own website and not post "source code" on a public forum.

No but coding something that takes weeks to do, for some one to come and take it, and give the slightest credit.
is just wrong

 

[mastahg]

No but coding something that takes weeks to do, for some one to come and take it, and give the slightest credit.
is just wrong

Once again this.

Simply put, its my work, my time,and its me who gets to say what can be done with it.