Coding a Thankless Job (Donations)

[Hi on Helium]

So much butt kissing and brown nosing, love it. First and foremost, we already paid for the product. Do you tip windows developers each patch? Do you donate to Blizzard each hotfix? I mean really, this thread wasnt about a "thanks for the work", but more of kissy kissy, sucky sucky.

You are missing the point of this thread completely. Windows and Blizzard are companies who sell you software and in turn upgrade them free to keep you as a member. That's what the HB/GB Dev.s do, you pay them and in turn they upgrade the BOT for free.

In this post we're talking about the CC devs, plug in devs, and profile creaters. none of which(other than maybe Apoc but I dunno if he's really a dev. or just a nice guy ) get paid to make these additions to the bot directly from your payment to HB/GB. they spend hours and hours developing additional code to help out the community.

just trying to clarify,
-HoHv2

 

[lickalime]

Sorry to say, but the quality of most contributions here is below any standard that I would regard as deserving and kind of recompense, especially when I constantly see stuff being posted that has either not been tested, not been tested enough, and in some sad cases stuff that does not even pass compilation/validation. Effort, or the display thereof is not, in my opinion, enough.

If you (na?vely) think that donating is going to improve the quality of contributions made, fine. But in a place where talent does not necessarily command respect I'd be very careful.

in b4 flames

Maybe they should come to your house cook dinner for you and hold your hand well you login as well?

But i understand what you guys are saying so i take back what i said to a certain extent. But im 100% for paid plugins. i think coders deserve to be compensated foe the time they spend on there releases that isnt recognized

 

[duhlink]

Forum Statistics:
Members38,706Active Members10,298Lets say 10,298 x $50 (probably the low side)
$514,900 - Software Income

The developer who collects payment could pay freelancers per class, per template developed.
The entire forum could be full of every single thing you could possibly think of and would generate more subscribers because it would be '1 click to X' for everything.

OVERALL - HB/GB = Excellent for the price

I agree donations should be given, I plan to donate to those profiles/classes that do the best for me over the next 30-60 days. I just started using hb/gb this month.
So far who I've benefited most from (in no particular order) are:
fpsware
kickazz
ensemble
tony


So far I've had to be pretty hands on every 4-6 hours.
Main issues =
1. Stuck (After dying, when traveling)
2. Loops of death - continually dying (Mainly traveling through badlands early on because a flight path wasn't picked up)
3. Talking to NPC who provides nothing (Especially in EPL - Just gets stuck)
4. Gatherbuddy -> can't combat like honorbuddy (poor logic = more deaths) - Looks like a bot too when diving for minerals

Love it for the price... but I wish it had OBJECT DETECTION - no more running in to mountains, trees or walls. The ability to intelligently navigate around them.

 

[CodenameG]

What are donations? I get a lot of PMs from people asking to buy private profiles from me, but Im lucky if I get a +rep for the stuff ive released here.

if people are asking you for to buy private profiles you need to report them, as its against forum rules to do any buying or selling though the site.

So much butt kissing and brown nosing, love it. First and foremost, we already paid for the product. Do you tip windows developers each patch? Do you donate to Blizzard each hotfix? I mean really, this thread wasnt about a "thanks for the work", but more of kissy kissy, sucky sucky.

well lets see. windows developers are paid to develop windows, and make patches for said versions of windows, they already get paid by microsoft or whatever company they work for. CC, and Plugin develops are normal people who took the time and program plugins or CC's for the bot and took time out of their own lives to code something for the community.

Sorry to say, but the quality of most contributions here is below any standard that I would regard as deserving and kind of recompense, especially when I constantly see stuff being posted that has either not been tested, not been tested enough, and in some sad cases stuff that does not even pass compilation/validation. Effort, or the display thereof is not, in my opinion, enough.

If you (na?vely) think that donating is going to improve the quality of contributions made, fine. But in a place where talent does not necessarily command respect I'd be very careful.

in b4 flames

sorry you feel that way, next time you decide to take time out of your life to code or make something for the community please let us know so we can all tell you how substandard your work is, and how you wasted your time making it.

And I suppose you posted bug reports in the threads in question??

I'm with Apoc, it's not about donations for me, I don't even have a method for people to donate. What it is about is when someone just says thanks for your work, and funnily enough, you get a lot more people complaining about something they want your plugin/cc to do than just saying thanks.

and thats mainly the problem with being a developer of any kind in this community, we have more people who think you owe them something by releasing work, and complain about it, instead of giving constructive criticism or quite simply not posting.

Wow you are here less than a month and your already insulting the people that built the application and the bots that the honorbuddy memebers have not only taken the time to develop but also share with hopes that people will appreciate their work. I encourage you that if you think the work is so poor to develop a bot/application that will benefit the community here and let us have access to it so we can show how much we value your hard work.

Until then don't insult peoples work and the energy that they put forth to help this community thrive.

Yes, I am a total random who bought HonorBuddy one month ago and signed up to the forums to badmouth people. Give me a break.

Maybe they should come to your house cook dinner for you and hold your hand well you login as well?

But i understand what you guys are saying so i take back what i said to a certain extent. But im 100% for paid plugins. i think coders deserve to be compensated foe the time they spend on there releases that isnt recognized

Girls, your both pretty. now cut the trolling.

 

[mopysworld]

There has maybe been like 1 or 2 things given on this site that I would of considered donating money too but now have become apart of HB/GB defaults. First one was the original Auto-angler with flying but was nerfed a couple of days later. Second possibly the archaeology plugin but still haven't tested/toyed with it yet(To be honest I thought this was going to be the first paid plugin after all the controversy). If money is a driving factor for people to develop either a plugin or CC then the makers of those products should ban together and get the paid feature finally implemented. The box for paid key has been on the last couple of builds so I am expecting to see that soon?

As for most of the other stuff I have tried I haven't been too impressed with the quality lately. Back when it was HB1 I saw alot less errors and untested products put out. Since going to HB2 I don't know if its just a lack of quality control on the CC/Plugin side or and underlying issue with HB itself. I am leaning toward the latter because I know of the CC's that I created myself for my specific needs since I mainly use HB for a rotation spammer works one release breaks another. And I am not going to get started on the whole debacle of Tags for profile or the questing system.

To sum it all up I think they just need to finally implement the paid feature parts and just have the devs charge what they think there time is worth working on there project. It would solve all this debate on money vs. gratitude. Both sides would then win.... those that wish to continue developing for free can still release as they have been and those that feel they need some extra cash to help offset there time developing or if something comes up they could use the money.

I think the quality of Plugins/CC's would go up for all the products being payed for or It could just back fire and the same old bug ridden crap gets put out but then the community would then know who and what not to buy.

 

[Phenotype]

You know, if I were the devs of any plugin/profile out there, I would not post it for free download. Instead, i would perhaps ask them to personally send you a PM and depending on how the PM is written and if it includes anything thanking you, then I would email that person the profile.
Other than that, no profile/plugin to anyone.

Its a shame some people dont apreciate their work, but as with anyone: different people, different education.

I hope one day I can give back to the people who made the plugins and profiles we see here.

A big thank you to you all, your effort has not been unnoticed!

 

[Deathsenemy]

So much butt kissing and brown nosing, love it. First and foremost, we already paid for the product. Do you tip windows developers each patch? Do you donate to Blizzard each hotfix? I mean really, this thread wasnt about a "thanks for the work", but more of kissy kissy, sucky sucky.

When I made this comment I took it as a donate to the original creators. Muh bad. I missread it.

Still though, I admire what the Dev of CC and plugins do, however, they dont have to and I dont feel obliged to give any money for something Thats the bot should do anyway (CC side of things). The other stuff is like "Fluff", I dont NEED it to bot. Yeah I use them, but if I had to pay, I wouldnt. Its like Onstar or Sirus/XM, nice to have till I have to pay for it.

 

[CodenameG]

There has maybe been like 1 or 2 things given on this site that I would of considered donating money too but now have become apart of HB/GB defaults. First one was the original Auto-angler with flying but was nerfed a couple of days later. Second possibly the archaeology plugin but still haven't tested/toyed with it yet(To be honest I thought this was going to be the first paid plugin after all the controversy). If money is a driving factor for people to develop either a plugin or CC then the makers of those products should ban together and get the paid feature finally implemented. The box for paid key has been on the last couple of builds so I am expecting to see that soon?

As for most of the other stuff I have tried I haven't been too impressed with the quality lately. Back when it was HB1 I saw alot less errors and untested products put out. Since going to HB2 I don't know if its just a lack of quality control on the CC/Plugin side or and underlying issue with HB itself. I am leaning toward the latter because I know of the CC's that I created myself for my specific needs since I mainly use HB for a rotation spammer works one release breaks another. And I am not going to get started on the whole debacle of Tags for profile or the questing system.

To sum it all up I think they just need to finally implement the paid feature parts and just have the devs charge what they think there time is worth working on there project. It would solve all this debate on money vs. gratitude. Both sides would then win.... those that wish to continue developing for free can still release as they have been and those that feel they need some extra cash to help offset there time developing or if something comes up they could use the money.

I think the quality of Plugins/CC's would go up for all the products being payed for or It could just back fire and the same old bug ridden crap gets put out but then the community would then know who and what not to buy.

the problem with the paid plugin system, and its been a problem since the idea popped into someones head, is that if ANY plugin can be sold then why would anyone put up anything for the community? instead, you'll end up with people making things for free to use the community as beta testers before cashing it in and making people pay.
paid plugins = death of free plugins.

not that people are going to buy plugins for a lot, im sure that once its finally rolled out there will be people complaining about how they have to pay now, and it will be the same people who voted no up on the top.

as for the lack of quality. questing had a complete overhaul done to it, its going to take a while to generate content, and the community is trying. but CC's and Plugin's are more advanced now and doing things that where just not capable of doing back in hb1. so i think the problem when people complain about the "decline in quality" is that, the new car smell, is gone, and take my work for example, i had 1 CC when i started, with a framework that wasnt even mine, coding in notepad, and even back then people loved it, it was a step in the right direction for where mage botting is going. now look at amplify, a complete re-write from the ground up, without the same bottleneck issues the old CC's had, more human like then its ever been, and some of the best survivability that's ever come out of botting that class. so it makes me wonder why when everyone is advancing as they learn to code and innovating, people say there's no quality. im sure its the same people who listen to music today and say the same thing "wheres the quality?" or go to the movies and say the exact same thing. nostalgia is a really pain in the ass idea, because you remember something being so good or great, nothing can get any better, when in fact it does and your just living in the past.

the paid plugin system is coming its only a matter of time. now once its here, are you going to be one of those people who goes, "wheres the bot i remember?".

 

[Meatyfrog]

Maybe I am taking the "paid-plugin" system at face value and equating it to only plugins, but I don't see myself paying for plugins as much as CCs(except maybe an AH plugin). CCs are truly a work of art, and if they are good enough I think they should be paid for. That being said CodenameG could very well be correct about it being the death of a free community.

 

[w00ty]

if people are asking you for to buy private profiles you need to report them, as its against forum rules to do any buying or selling though the site.

You funny man CnG, you funny. If anything ill ask them to tell their friends where to find me. Thats if I sold profiles.

 

[bjsaust]

There are a fair few people (devs would be too strong a word) who put out untested, substandard work that gets minimal if any maintenance, but there are also plenty who test their work well and actively maintain it. You'll get that in a community based project like this. Thats one reason the threads have ratings, so you can see how other people have felt about said piece of work. That said, inevitably anything thats freshly posted should be considered 'beta' until it becomes more mature. Theres only so much testing one dev can do compared to getting it out there and getting feedback.

Donations are good. Thanks are good. Constructive (useful) feedback is priceless. Take time to explain any issues you're having with someones work, attach logs (as requested) and make it easy for them to fix. A note of appreciation or comments about the good parts of said piece of work would also be appreciated by most devs I'd imagine while you're submitting your issue.

 

[mopysworld]

Ban Hammer incomming

Are you trolling me or just trying to pick a fight?

the problem with the paid plugin system, and its been a problem since the idea popped into someones head, is that if ANY plugin can be sold then why would anyone put up anything for the community? instead, you'll end up with people making things for free to use the community as beta testers before cashing it in and making people pay.
paid plugins = death of free plugins.

So I quess the rest of the people that make software/games have been doing it wrong by not releasing open betas to the public to get attention to it and see some of the features before making it Pay to Play or Micro Transaction.

Also some of the Devs/Contributors has already posted they don't want money they do it for personal accomplishment and knowledge of ones ability to overcome a problem. Paid Plugin helps those coders that could use extra money and have a skill that can make it a possiblity. Sure there will be those paid plugin that are just garbage just to make a quick buck but usually those don't last long as word mouth is very much active in this forum. Heres a tip that the site/product is in need of "Standardization"

not that people are going to buy plugins for a lot, im sure that once its finally rolled out there will be people complaining about how they have to pay now, and it will be the same people who voted no up on the top.

If you make stuff that interest them or fill a need (That ****WORKS AS DESCRIBED**** and NOT with major bugs... the occasional bugs happens but that the cost of developing something as a person can't foresee everything and sometime shit happens) for a reasonable price sure they will... If not the makers of HB/GB would not be in business.

As to the bot I remember line.... it has been practically the same since I first bought HB/GB when they first rolled it out with some good thing implement as a bonus and somethings they tried to implement but are still working out the bugs. Like I said I use HB mainly for a rotation spammer when i'm out questing or resource harvesting by hand. I have no illusion expecting anything else from this bot or community. I purchased it for that exact reason and the day it stops having that functionality is they day I will say goodbye and thanks for all the memories.

Would I use this bot to AFK grind or do BG's hell no and not even during HB1 as so called described as a selling point. That is a personal preference as I see it as just asking to get your account banned... bots tend to act funny when you don't want them too.

The devs has given the users the tools to make the bot do what ever they what or need it to do as they could not forsee everything (Smart move in my eyes). Not my fault some people are too lazy to take a couple of hours to read/experiment/ or exchange ideas to get the bot to do what they want. People expect this bot to be a 1 button smash "I WIN" purples or real life currency ATM. Sure it can do that but it takes effort on the user part and the current community seems to me to expect pay x amount of money for this bot and win. Its convoluted to think that and the current post of refunds/ban proves my point.

I chose this over the other bots mainly because of the Security and that Nesox(if I spelled his name wrong I'm sorry),Main,Apoc are on the dev team I trust them not just on blind faith but from there quality of work on this and other projects they have been apart of here and other places. Nesox just because of his Mr. Fishit program I used till it finally got implemented here, Main... since he was added and the Nav system put in place this bot was generations ahead of the other bots, Apoc his knowledge and since joining the team more robust features have been finally added. Don't know if Natforth is on the team or not but his Questing tag addition helped further the old questing system to something semi usuable now. There are a few others out there that I have been impressed with and I have thanked them in there posts.

If you want me to go into detail what exactly do I mean by "Lack of Quality" I can but I know the ban-hammer is going to drop after that post if this reply doesn't earn me one. As to you CodenameG yes your bot has improved and continues to improve as your skill improves and that is to be commended. Do I sympathize with some of the CC devs... yes. In all honesty I think you all (not every asshat that post a CC but the ones that stay and pretty much are the standard goto CC's outside of the default ones.... you all took the bot from its infancy with non robust CC's and made them what they are today) should be paid from tony/bossland or who ever owns the IP of this software. You all have a thankless job and I don't envy you all.

I could all day take pop-shots and tell the contributers where their releases have failed/errors but then I would be a hypocrite in my eyes as I have not given back to the community outside of the bug ridden update to erenions profile maker that he abandon to make it fit my needs in a effort to teach me how to make plugins/profile/CC's/bots for this product and a couple of profiles for a few plugins. I am no professional coder I am interested in learning but I personally don't have the patience to do it for money nor the time. Hence why I PAYED to have someone else do it. And if I am too cheap to want to pay for something then I take the time to figure how to do it myself or ask.

Since this post is off-topic to what the OP intended I am sorry but some people don't take critisim too well apparently on this forum as proven by some of the recent bannings.

 

[Narayan]

Personally even though the only thing i've developed so far is a BM Hunter CC, I wouldn't want to charge or receive any kind of payment. I made my Hunter CC because I felt the default was poor and I needed something better, simple as. As it was made I figured i might as well share it. I don't personally see any need to receive payment.

 

[ski]

Personally even though the only thing i've developed so far is a BM Hunter CC, I wouldn't want to charge or receive any kind of payment. I made my Hunter CC because I felt the default was poor and I needed something better, simple as. As it was made I figured i might as well share it. I don't personally see any need to receive payment.

I feel the same way about the warlock CC. I made it for my own personal gain because I wanted a better one and just happened to share it

Whenever anyone asks to donate I forward them to the nearest charitable organization.

 

[lambo]

My biggest concern is simply, another oppertunity for my card to get hacked or taken advantage of. I would gladly give money to a programmer. The problem is simply, can you provide a secure place I can type in my card number, and send you the money?
This is honestly the biggest concern for me. I am paranoid beyond Paranoid. If a programmer can hack into a game what else can he or she hack into? I think If any one of these guys I see on here every day making changes, caring for their babies ( the profiles ) that says to me... "These guys give a shit about their name and their work... they love what they do " This is someone I want to help kept fed and funded. You do the hard work and we simply click a button or two and pray we don't get banned.

So I think you hear what Im saying. This goes to Bossland too. If you can provide these people with a way that we as a community can pay these guys that would be awesome. The other problem is just like the one i faced when trying to get the buddy to work ... I am in the US and I had to call my bank, get them to o.k. the payment. then it still didnt take... I finally used my credit card and I believe it got through... the bottom line is... security, take visa... no hastle and I will give you what I think your worth, until you tell me what you are worth.

Thank you for your hard work guys. All of you. $$$

 

[Narayan]

^^^ Paypal?

 

[greaterdeath]

My 2 cents as a new user...I've come to believe the best CC's should be in those "Default XX" folders. A good CC is absolutely necessary in order for HB to function as a leveling bot and should be supplied by HB. Since they are not, CC devs are #1 on my list of people whose work I would like to donate to.
Profiles...can be made by most people with some time and effort. If I can't be arsed to make one for my self and find there are one or two people whose work I use most often, then donating seems appropriate to me.
Plug-ins...can only begin to imagine whats out there in terms of what people have created & kept private for their own use lol, and is indeed a double-edge sword in regards to charging people for the right to use such goodies. Same as profiles tho, if I have it on by "default" then its worth donating.

As stated before in this thread tho, cash money isn't the only way to support a dev - they do deserve users' support one way or another if you are benefiting from their talents, imo.

 

[CodenameG]

My 2 cents as a new user...I've come to believe the best CC's should be in those "Default XX" folders. A good CC is absolutely necessary in order for HB to function as a leveling bot and should be supplied by HB. Since they are not, CC devs are #1 on my list of people whose work I would like to donate to.
Profiles...can be made by most people with some time and effort. If I can't be arsed to make one for my self and find there are one or two people whose work I use most often, then donating seems appropriate to me.
Plug-ins...can only begin to imagine whats out there in terms of what people have created & kept private for their own use lol, and is indeed a double-edge sword in regards to charging people for the right to use such goodies. Same as profiles tho, if I have it on by "default" then its worth donating.

As stated before in this thread tho, cash money isn't the only way to support a dev - they do deserve users' support one way or another if you are benefiting from their talents, imo.

the critera for a default cc, had to be, (at least when i wrote the default mage) was 1 spec, no configuration, and it needs to work from 1-85 without issues. so by that definition we cant really pack a CC like amplify without making major modifications to it. they have to be made for doing one specific task. if we just bundled in user made CC's support would be a nightmare. at least this way the default set is something that we know works, works without configuration (so no extra how do i configure X Class Guides) and wont be abandoned 5 months from now.

 

[greaterdeath]

the critera for a default cc, had to be, (at least when i wrote the default mage) was 1 spec, no configuration, and it needs to work from 1-85 without issues. so by that definition we cant really pack a CC like amplify without making major modifications to it. they have to be made for doing one specific task. if we just bundled in user made CC's support would be a nightmare. at least this way the default set is something that we know works, works without configuration (so no extra how do i configure X Class Guides) and wont be abandoned 5 months from now.

Oh no I wasn't suggesting HB take & integrate users CC's - I intended to mean that HB should upgrade/develop their own default CC's to be at least as good as what a user can provide. HB automatically provides upgrades in many areas of functionality & I just think CC's should be also bc they do SO much for performance.

 

[CodenameG]

Oh no I wasn't suggesting HB take & integrate users CC's - I intended to mean that HB should upgrade/develop their own default CC's to be at least as good as what a user can provide. HB automatically provides upgrades in many areas of functionality & I just think CC's should be also bc they do SO much for performance.

the problem comes with the trade off of, how do i make it more advanced without the user having to tell me any information? its balancing game.