Bossland GmbH v. Blizzard, the never ending story

[Aion]

Here's the footer...in English:

Felix Hilgert is an IT lawyer at Osborne Clarke, advising companies from the start-up to the market leader in IT and e-commerce law, software contracts and all aspects of interactive entertainment.

Can you show me exactly where it says he's a student? Can you show me exactly where it says he's not working for an actual lawfirm? BTW, here's the LAW FIRM he works for:

Osborne Clarke Legal Services | Osborne Clarke

Here's the SENIOR ASSOCIATE'S page on said website:

Search Results Felix Hilgert | Osborne Clarke

Again, your utter bias is showing through very clear here and the more you keep trying to discredit the author of the article, it's making your stance on this matter more ridiculous.

Absolutely nothing about the article should lead anyone here to believe that this SENIOR LAWYER FOR A LEGITIMATE LAW FIRM is "trolling" anyone.

Here's the article in question again in case anyone missed the previous link:

Bossland vs. Blizzard: Verhandlung gegen Bot-Anbieter am BGH (1/2)

Go ahead and read it yourselves and come to your own conclusions. Again, keep in mind that this guy has no reason to want HB to lose...HB losing is potentially negative for him and his law firm. There's no reason he'd be biased towards the courts.

Discussion entered deep offtopic, would repeat myself and stop the further discussion, since doesn't matter who exactly this guy is.

Anything me, you or others (including random IT lawyer (ok, he is not student, my apologizes to the guy)) write on the topic is pure speculation, cornering with trolling ... Only the supreme judges have the whole picture (Thats why they are promoted after all).

Peace out and happy botting

 

[blewsclewsnews]

Discussion entered deep offtopic, would repeat myself and stop the further discussion, since doesn't matter who exactly this guy is.

Anything me, you or others (including random IT lawyer (ok, he is not student, my apologizes to the guy)) write on the topic is pure speculation, cornering with trolling ... Only the supreme judges have the whole picture (Thats why they are promoted after all).

Peace out and happy botting

Entering deep off-topic? Looks like the discussion is right on topic to me...

And again, you calling speculation based on observing the trial itself trolling is trolling in and of itself. You're correct that the judges have the final say, but your continued discussion makes it seem like you know more than this lawyer does, which you most definitely don't...I bet you didn't spend even 1 second in the court room, whereas this guy, a veteran lawyer, spent time observing THE ENTIRE TRIAL...And he also has knowledge of how the courts have acted on other cases similar to this...I'd dare say that this guy has all the knowledge in the world to give a fair assessment of how things look for Bossland, which he very clearly did in the article.

Just because you don't agree with the outcome he came to based on previous experience, it doesn't mean he's trolling anyone.

 

[cody1d]

The Buddy Bots and the Overwatch Cheat (collectively, the “Bossland Hacks”) have caused, and are continuing to cause, massive and irreparable harm to Blizzard. Blizzard’s business depends upon its games being enjoyable and fair for players of all skill levels, and Blizzard expends an enormous amount of time and money to ensure that this is the case. The Bossland Hacks destroy the integrity of the Blizzard Games, thereby alienating and frustrating legitimate players and diverting revenue from Blizzard to Defendants. "Defendants’ sale and distribution of the Bossland Hacks in the United States has caused Blizzard to lose millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue,"

I lol'd because of the fact that that is completely false and if anyone is to blame for the decrease in revenue it is Blizzard themselves. And also lets not forget that banning someone for "hacking" or "cheating" and then that same person buying your product again and also paying a subscription fee of $15 ontop of paying for the game itself is apparently bad when its more money in YOUR pocket. And lets also not forget the spyware you run on each and every persons computer that plays your game. I couldn't guess how many botters are on WoW but I am sure it makes up a certain % of the subscriber base

 

[blewsclewsnews]

... And lets also not forget the spyware you run on each and every persons computer that plays your game.

You lost all credibility with that statement.

Not a single person has ever been able to prove that they do this. If anyone could, Blizzard would have a MASSIVE lawsuit against them, as that would be illegal in almost any developed country in the world.

You're mistaking Blizzard scanning within their own memory space while you're running their products with spyware. One is illegal, one is a completely acceptable behavior.

This continued talk that Blizz is doing something illegal because they are detecting the bot is just asinine.

 

[Mew2]

How can an American company, sue a Germany company in England? I'm no legal expert, but how could Blizzard assume England could have jurisdiction over Germany? I'm British so I'm not trying to be racially funny, it just makes no sense. Surely everything needs to be done in Germany, with an appeal to the EU courts if necessary.

 

[Xarian]

How can an American company, sue a Germany company in England? I'm no legal expert, but how could Blizzard assume England could have jurisdiction over Germany? I'm British so I'm not trying to be racially funny, it just makes no sense. Surely everything needs to be done in Germany, with an appeal to the EU courts if necessary.

Bossland gmbh most likely have companies registered in England, considering the co-owner is from there.

However, Bossland is providing services to people in england, for that reason you could launch a lawsuit in any country that Bossland is providing services for, and have him banned from providing services in this country

England, still being in the EU, also means that a win in a european country could pose as an example to other european courts, and thus help Blizzard in winning this lawsuit in germany.

 

[blewsclewsnews]

Bossland gmbh most likely have companies registered in England, considering the co-owner is from there.

However, Bossland is providing services to people in england, for that reason you could launch a lawsuit in any country that Bossland is providing services for, and have him banned from providing services in this country

England, still being in the EU, also means that a win in a european country could pose as an example to other european courts, and thus help Blizzard in winning this lawsuit in germany.

HB operates in the US as well, all lawsuits filed against them in the US have failed, which is why Blizz went after Bossland in DE instead.

This has long been viewed as the only reason that HB has been able to survive for so long.

 

[Xarian]

HB operates in the US as well, all lawsuits filed against them in the US have failed, which is why Blizz went after Bossland in DE instead.

This has long been viewed as the only reason that HB has been able to survive for so long.

They only recently launched a lawsuit in the US against HB, and im pretty sure thats still on-going.

However, the US is not a part of EU, it would be quite difficult for a US court to uphold a ban of sales to US customers from Bossland gmbh, seeing as the US have no juristiction over Bossland operations.

The UK is still a part of EU, and thus a ruling in the UK would need to be uphelt to avoid any sanctions on Bossland

 

[blewsclewsnews]

They only recently launched a lawsuit in the US against HB, and im pretty sure thats still on-going.

However, the US is not a part of EU, it would be quite difficult for a US court to uphold a ban of sales to US customers from Bossland gmbh, seeing as the US have no juristiction over Bossland operations.

The UK is still a part of EU, and thus a ruling in the UK would need to be uphelt to avoid any sanctions on Bossland

No, Blizz originally went after Bossland in the US. You can go review his earliest blog posts and see exactly where Bossland said the only protections they have against Blizzard is that they aren't in the US. The post is from years ago, probably in 2011.

 

[EleGiggle]

Today is that really important court/trial decision right? I hope everything goes well

 

[blewsclewsnews]

Today is that really important court/trial decision right? I hope everything goes well

Yes, and if you don't see Bossland here claiming that they were triumphant in defeating big, bad Blizzard, you can probably expect the worst.

Bossland is quick to mention anything positive that comes from their lawsuits, yet fails to mention every time blizz sticks it to him.

 

[Phelon]

They only recently launched a lawsuit in the US against HB, and im pretty sure thats still on-going.

However, the US is not a part of EU, it would be quite difficult for a US court to uphold a ban of sales to US customers from Bossland gmbh, seeing as the US have no juristiction over Bossland operations.


The UK is still a part of EU, and thus a ruling in the UK would need to be uphelt to avoid any sanctions on Bossland

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I could be completely wrong on how I understand this.

Blizzard recently opened up a case against Bossland in the US. The US case is to shut down sales in the US based on the Germany decision (which I believe happens today). Blizzard made the US case to make sure they were ready for the Germany decision to set precedent. Once precedent is set in Germany, they can use the German verdict and the Glider verdict to hit Bossland in the junk in the US.

Edit: And the ruling is in: https://www.thebuddyforum.com/forum...bgh-urteil-wurde-am-12-01-2017-verk-ndet.html HB Can no longer be sold or used in Germany. There is your precedent. Expect something filed in the states. My guess is that it is already written and someone is probably delivering it to the 9th district court as we speak.

 

[blewsclewsnews]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I could be completely wrong on how I understand this.

Blizzard recently opened up a case against Bossland in the US. The US case is to shut down sales in the US based on the Germany decision (which I believe happens today). Blizzard made the US case to make sure they were ready for the Germany decision to set precedent. Once precedent is set in Germany, they can use the German verdict and the Glider verdict to hit Bossland in the junk in the US.

Edit: And the ruling is in: https://www.thebuddyforum.com/forum...bgh-urteil-wurde-am-12-01-2017-verk-ndet.html HB Can no longer be sold or used in Germany. There is your precedent. Expect something filed in the states. My guess is that it is already written and someone is probably delivering it to the 9th district court as we speak.

Yeah, I was incorrect in my previous post. The US lawsuit was filed back in August and has been pending since. Here's the court documents:

https://torrentfreak.com/images/blizzard-bossland.pdf

I find it funny that Bossland hasn't come to the LEGAL section to talk about their defeat in DE. If they had've won, there would've been posts from him immediately about their triumphs. Instead we have to go to the German section to read about the decision.

 

[Xarian]

Yeah, I was incorrect in my previous post. The US lawsuit was filed back in August and has been pending since. Here's the court documents:

https://torrentfreak.com/images/blizzard-bossland.pdf

I find it funny that Bossland hasn't come to the LEGAL section to talk about their defeat in DE. If they had've won, there would've been posts from him immediately about their triumphs. Instead we have to go to the German section to read about the decision.

Having spoken to Bossland quite a few times, also regarding these legal issues, it is apparent that his german to english translation skills aren't very good, it is also very evident when looking at previous legal posts in the english section, some are quite difficult to understand, i can understand writing in the german section first.

However, as to be expected it was a loss, and i am sure we will begin to see several more countries banned in the coming year

 

[Hatdred]

Win or Lose was the conclusion? For the cases

 

[laria]

HBDE in its current form can't be offered. Login, Download and Sale are disabled.
If you haven't used it before you are fine.
HB will be updated in the future, but just the international version.
If the full reasoning from the court arrives they will have a look at it to see if they can bring it back for german customers somehow.

 

[EleGiggle]

HBDE in its current form can't be offered. Login, Download and Sale are disabled.
If you haven't used it before you are fine.
HB will be updated in the future, but just the international version.
If the full reasoning from the court arrives they will have a look at it to see if they can bring it back for german customers somehow.

What do you mean ''if you haven't used it before you are fine''?
Are German authorities going to ''chase'' the users down or something? I'm not from Germany, just curious.

 

[blewsclewsnews]

Having spoken to Bossland quite a few times, also regarding these legal issues, it is apparent that his german to english translation skills aren't very good, it is also very evident when looking at previous legal posts in the english section, some are quite difficult to understand, i can understand writing in the german section first.

However, as to be expected it was a loss, and i am sure we will begin to see several more countries banned in the coming year

Still no post from Bossland in the legal section.

Would be awesome to hear from him and his thoughts how this will affect the pending lawsuits that have been filed in the US and the UK.

Does this ruling set a precedence now for the other outstanding lawsuits?

The language barrier is not an excuse, He's had no problems posting before, and he should have no problem posting again.

 

[HatchingEgg]

Still no post from Bossland in the legal section.

Would be awesome to hear from him and his thoughts how this will affect the pending lawsuits that have been filed in the US and the UK.

Does this ruling set a precedence now for the other outstanding lawsuits?

The language barrier is not an excuse, He's had no problems posting before, and he should have no problem posting again.

As Bossland already wrote in the German section.

Bossland won the most important thing so far. RE'ing is so far allowed (with specific requirements that are given in Bossland's case). That other lawsuit is lost so far - Bossland has to stop selling Honorbuddy in Germany. The reason behind this is still pending and that's why you don't see any news. But this doesn't affect anyone outside from Germany so there are no global news yet.

 

[blewsclewsnews]

As Bossland already wrote in the German section.

Bossland won the most important thing so far. RE'ing is so far allowed (with specific requirements that are given in Bossland's case). That other lawsuit is lost so far - Bossland has to stop selling Honorbuddy in Germany. The reason behind this is still pending and that's why you don't see any news. But this doesn't affect anyone outside from Germany so there are no global news yet.

Did you even read a single thing I wrote? Maybe go back and read it again...

Bossland didn't win anything. If he did, feel free to point it out here. As me and many others in this thread have pointed out, the second Bossland had made even the smallest of victory, he was right her claiming how triumphant they have been.

And there's nothing to report? So the fact that the courts have disallowed the sale of the bot in Germany is nothing to report? Yeah, ok...

Since you're a moderator here, how about you give us your thoughts on the matter. Do you not think that Bossland very clearly losing this case will not set a precedence for other countries? What are your thoughts on the outstanding cases in the UK and US? Do you think that the courts in those countries won't look at this ruling when they start reviewing the pending lawsuits in those countries?