Ban Theories and Ban Waves

[Messiuh]

You're right, it's not 0.0025%. Using your numbers lets do the math;

300 000 / 5 000 000 000 = 0.00006

0.006% of their gross income.

Robert Kotick, president and CEO of Activision-Blizzard makes that much money in a week. This is not very much money to them.

Yes, ok, I understand botters in diablo 3 can bring millions of dollars in for blizzard. They are not a million dollar company, they are a BILLION dollar company. Yes millions may seem like a lot, but it is not that much to them, If everyone looks at blizzard and says "Everyone bots, and cheats in their games I'm not going to play or buy them." All of a sudden, their big cash cow of a company goes bye-bye. People who play the game, which outnumber botters substantially, no longer give blizzard money. They end up risking and loosing billions for millions. You understand? Not worth it.

You're thinking one-dimensionally.

It isn't just about how much money they make off each box sold -- it's about numbers reported to wall street. The amount of CD Keys sold in a month where botters is banned is significant enough to be controlled, for sure. I'm not typically a tin-foil hat kinda guy, but I'd say that much is obvious.

Their shareholders want growth, and executive management will use any tools necessary to get it.

Rest assured, with a modest amount of effort a "one button push" for banning botters is overtly plausible (The SQL necessary takes less typing than this post). Either they refuse to dedicate resources to this (which doesn't seem very plausible), or they police the situation with a reasonable level of control to gain what efficiencies they can from it (ie. more new copies registered = new players = growth = wall street happy = higher stock price).

 

[treckin]

Im sure the Activision bigwigs are sitting on a new Gulfstream today wondering what the demonbuddy crew is up to and how many more invisible monsters we all have to kill before they will come back from the Cayman Islands to ban us!

 

[Nam3]

You're thinking one-dimensionally.

It isn't just about how much money they make off each box sold -- it's about numbers reported to wall street. The amount of CD Keys sold in a month where botters is banned is significant enough to be controlled, for sure. I'm not typically a tin-foil hat kinda guy, but I'd say that much is obvious.

Their shareholders want growth, and executive management will use any tools necessary to get it.

Rest assured, with a modest amount of effort a "one button push" for banning botters is overtly plausible (The SQL necessary takes less typing than this post). Either they refuse to dedicate resources to this (which doesn't seem very plausible), or they police the situation with a reasonable level of control to gain what efficiencies they can from it (ie. more new copies registered = new players = growth = wall street happy = higher stock price).

One dimensionally? That made me lol
If they want monthly numbers and growth they run an ad campaign for WoW. Monthly subscriptions looks better on the books then one time gains.
Wall street chumps and people who want to make money off stocks will want the company to increase equity, by laying off employees (isn't there like only 1 d3 programmer? lol) or obtaining more assets. Not by letting people bot so they can get a couple hundred thousand a month off of it.
Yes maybe Jay Wilson and his cronies could think "Let's ban botters periodically so they keep buying diablo3 to look more successful trollolol derp." Eventually senior management will realize "Oh, we've sold 100million copies but don't even have 1 million people playing daily? Watdafuq? Why don't people like our games? If they don't like our game, they won't buy our xpac, or any other games we make. If we can't sell anything, our monthly numbers go down. If our monthly numbers go down our net worth goes down, then our stock, then our investors, et cetera etc etc..."
You're entitled to your own opinion, that's your privilege. However, take a step back, disassociate yourself from the botting community, pretend your a gamer again, and think about it.

 

[treckin]

If they sold 100 million copies, they definitely wouldnt give a shit about us. I suggest making a hat with that foil. Whatever you do, stop freebasing Ritalin out of it!

 

[Messiuh]

One dimensionally? That made me lol
If they want monthly numbers and growth they run an ad campaign for WoW. Monthly subscriptions looks better on the books then one time gains.
Wall street chumps and people who want to make money off stocks will want the company to increase equity, by laying off employees (isn't there like only 1 d3 programmer? lol) or obtaining more assets. Not by letting people bot so they can get a couple hundred thousand a month off of it.

Still one dimensional thinking. Do you have any concept of how corporate America works? Do you think if Microsoft is failing at selling Microsoft Office, they just run an ad campaign for Microsoft Windows? They want growth in all their product sectors, as much as possible, always.

Liquidating assets and cutting staff is the option no one wants to take.

Yes maybe Jay Wilson and his cronies could think "Let's ban botters periodically so they keep buying diablo3 to look more successful trollolol derp." Eventually senior management will realize "Oh, we've sold 100million copies but don't even have 1 million people playing daily? Watdafuq? Why don't people like our games?

If you want to remain credible, how about using real numbers? 100 million copies? Why not just say "HUHUHH BRO DIABLO 3 SOLD LIKE 2 TRILLION COPIES WE DONT MATTER LMAO"

You seem pretty closed minded. I didn't insinuate that this is a major strategy for them -- but when executive management asks the Jay Wilson team "WTF NO ONE IS PLAYING?!?!?!" they can point to metrics, such as "New boxes sold", as a positive metric.

You're entitled to your own opinion, that's your privilege. However, take a step back, disassociate yourself from the botting community, pretend your a gamer again, and think about it.

I won't sit here and list my qualifications, but you can probably assume I know something about business.

If they sold 100 million copies, they definitely wouldnt give a shit about us. I suggest making a hat with that foil. Whatever you do, stop freebasing Ritalin out of it!

You probably shouldn't exaggerate metrics to prove your point. They've sold over 12 million copies, not 100 million. 3.5 million of those were in the first day ..

So when you now argue "well still, 1 million copies per month ... see? they don't care about 10,000 copies"

I'd say ... go out and find a Sales Manager who wouldn't go New Age Christian for a button to push for an extra 1% sales boost when he is at 99% of goal.



The scenario is very plausible, whether or not you think its too paranoid conspiracy theory for you. The simple fact of the matter is, it is NOT hard to find botters. You could get a daily short-list of 24/7 botters with almost literally zero effort... "Average Time Online per Day" "Average Time In Game Per Day" "Average Games Per Day" ... Even with conservative thresholds you can ban hammer every day.

The question remains, why don't they?

Before you say :

1. Because they can't?
2. Because they have "1 programmer"

Note everything you've said to me as a reason you're wrong "Because blizzard is like a huge organization bro... billions of dollars" (billion dollar organizations don't have 1 developer teams on their major IP) ... they also have DBA's that are at least competent enough to run queries to find illegal in-game activity.

Kinda makes the other scenarios plausible, no?

Botters are a necessary evil? They stimulate the economy?
Banning botters = more sales?
Blizzard is the most incompetent organization in the history of the universe?
Blizzard doesnt give a fuck?
Diablo's database is a 1987 version of Lotus and they can't run queries

Pick one ... none are less tinfoil hat than the others.

 

[willc86]

It's an answer no one will ever know for sure; just pure theory. Does Blizzard really care? Does the mass ban of botters provide more income and stimulate regular players to come back thinking "botters are banned" doubling the income?

In my opinion, I think Blizzard does surprise bans for that reason; more bans = resale of more diablo 3 accounts. A corporation will never turn down a penny from income. A billion dollars started from a dollar. $300,000 is enough to pay a few peoples salary for free, in an illegitimate way. Plus, they brag about it in the forums mentioning they sent a massive ban wave to botters so people can still play and make money off of real money auction house.

 

[treckin]

 

[ElPaintero]

Hey bro, do that to a conventional television set and tell me what happens when you touch it after a few hours. Maybe don't because you'll get electrocuted and probably die.

 

[treckin]

 

[anoriolko]

I've been watching my bot closely lately and I do notice that every so often she attacks something invisible, even when no enemies at all she would use the primary attack on something that I can't see. And its always my primary spirit-builder attack: never a spender-attack.

I am starting to believe the hidden barricades theory that Blizzard uses to see bots. I will try to record with FRAPS to show you guys.

 

[Messiuh]

View attachment 81036

Stop spam trolling the forum .. you offer little insight and even less intelligence to the discussion.

 

[treckin]

Oh because there is SOOOO much intelligence going around here anyhow! Yeah!

 

[Oink]

once they have your mules paypal it would be incredibly easy to ban every account that supplies gold/items to it over a longer period of time. no checks needed whatsoever

 

[Messiuh]

once they have your mules paypal it would be incredibly easy to ban every account that supplies gold/items to it over a longer period of time. no checks needed whatsoever

What does Paypal have to do with it?

 

[treckin]

Invisible monsters are a problem with the camera and terrain, not some tinfoil hat shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PpLH2xLu2f8#t=75s

 

[silkysamson]

Stop spam trolling the forum .. you offer little insight and even less intelligence to the discussion.

Ffs lighten up dude... It's a joke.

On a serious note they have changed something with report blizz.. It seems to refresh every time you login and even unblocks in the firewall. Anyone else noticed?

 

[nahil]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
date Reporting Error.


every errror toi have.

 

[Nam3]

Still one dimensional thinking. Do you have any concept of how corporate America works? Do you think if Microsoft is failing at selling Microsoft Office, they just run an ad campaign for Microsoft Windows? They want growth in all their product sectors, as much as possible, always.

The question is, DO YOU? Market Capitalization. You understand? A few million in sales to botters will not even make the shareholders meeting minutes. A few extra crusty bread crumbs in the profit pie is not what concerns them. Where the pie ends up to make more pie does. This is called investing in equity and assets to increase share value.
Microsoft Office sales are bad. Microsoft R&D interviews the targeted demographic on how to improve it. Diablo sales down, they do the same thing and interview people. They say "We hate chinese gold farmers." Get it?
This example does not apply well to what I said at all. You're asking for monthly growth on a one time payment option. Where's the upsale? Where's the subscription fee? Where's the extras one can buy after purchase? N/A here. WoW has 9.6 active monthly subscritpions. That's where the can grow montly and will try to. Thats my point.

Liquidating assets and cutting staff is the option no one wants to take.

Who said anything about liquidation?

If you want to remain credible, how about using real numbers? 100 million copies? Why not just say "HUHUHH BRO DIABLO 3 SOLD LIKE 2 TRILLION COPIES WE DONT MATTER LMAO"

Was under the assumption you would realize 100:1 was figurative as I was trying to stress a point. It was placed to over emphasize the scenario. It even contained a 'Wadafuq' to show I wasn't expected to be acruate with those numbers. Next time incase someone takes obviously extreme over exagerations literally like a moron, I'll include a bibliography with all my sources and not make jokes. Maybe you're mad my other numbers are real and make sense? Don't answer I won't reply.

You seem pretty closed minded.

Says the guy who only brings up only corporate america about an internationl company. Before you cry all NASDAQ and California HQ crap I know this already. Just saying that if it wasn't for sales outside of your country Blizzard would fail. Corporate america isn't all that matters. We're talking about international product on international forums. Closed minded was the america remark.
Oh, and how many of those 12 million sales are actually in US? Don't know? Don't answer.

I didn't insinuate that this is a major strategy for them

People on this board seemed to. Those are who I was talking to before you decided to troll in.

but when executive management asks the Jay Wilson team "WTF NO ONE IS PLAYING?!?!?!" they can point to metrics, such as "New boxes sold", as a positive metric.

Actually I'm pretty sure they will see new boxes sold as new boxes sold. Customer satisfaction is and loyalty is what comes immediately after, which Diablo 3 sorely lacks.

Originally Posted by Nam3
You're entitled to your own opinion, that's your privilege. However, take a step back, disassociate yourself from the botting community, pretend your a gamer again, and think about it.
I won't sit here and list my qualifications, but you can probably assume I know something about business.

Oh don't worry about that. You've already proven what you know. Secondly, no one would care if you even have any at this point.
This was just stating anyone from Tesla to an illiterate baffoon has the right to their own opinion. I'm sure you fit in that scale. That is all.

Originally Posted by treckin
If they sold 100 million copies, they definitely wouldnt give a shit about us. I suggest making a hat with that foil. Whatever you do, stop freebasing Ritalin out of it!
You probably shouldn't exaggerate metrics to prove your point. They've sold over 12 million copies, not 100 million. 3.5 million of those were in the first day ..

lol not me? Either way, you need to know when someones joking around or not.

I'd say ... go out and find a Sales Manager who wouldn't go New Age Christian for a button to push for an extra 1% sales boost when he is at 99% of goal

So when sales managers get a hold of this button we're in trouble.

The scenario is very plausible, whether or not you think its too paranoid conspiracy theory for you.

It was stated it's possible.

"Average Time Online per Day" "Average Time In Game Per Day" "Average Games Per Day" ... Even with conservative thresholds you can ban hammer every day.

The question remains, why don't they?

Some people play a lot more than you think. Also, if this were the case, people who cycle 3 accounts 8 hours a day botting would not get hit, but they do.

Note everything you've said to me as a reason you're wrong "Because blizzard is like a huge organization bro... billions of dollars"

Closed minds could even understand one of the major points I was making. BRAND RECOGNITION. BRAND RECOGNITION. BRAND RECOGNITION.

billion dollar organizations don't have 1 developer teams on their major IP

No, the don't. They have multiple devs. Not every dev is a programmer. Do you even understand how to make a video game? Btw, this was another sort of joke that flew way over your head. In the virtual tour of diablo offices, Jay Wilson walks by a door "This is our programmer, as you can see he's very busy so I'm going to close his door." But whatever, I thought you knew something about their operation and offices. You can youtube that video too btw. True story.

Botters are a necessary evil? They stimulate the economy?

Did you even read up on the lawsuit against HB and DB devs? "Damage to In-Game economy" is there, a major claim, word for word.

Banning botters = more sales?

Short term yes. Long term efff no.

Blizzard is the most incompetent organization in the history of the universe?
Blizzard doesnt give a fuck?

If they banned botters for more sales, the give a fuck. Incompetence part, we agree on something.

This one floored me

Diablo's database is a 1987 version of Lotus and they can't run queries

Then why say this?

they also have DBA's that are at least competent enough to run queries to find illegal in-game activity.

You could get a daily short-list of 24/7 botters with almost literally zero effort...

So here I'm going to say, clearly we're on a different level. You know I disagree with you, great. Done here.

p.s. Next time, if you want to remain credible, read the things you're replying to carefully as to understand them, and read what you're quoting.

 

[Messiuh]

The question is, DO YOU? Market Capitalization. You understand? A few million in sales to botters will not even make the shareholders meeting minutes. A few extra crusty bread crumbs in the profit pie is not what concerns them. Where the pie ends up to make more pie does. This is called investing in equity and assets to increase share value.
Microsoft Office sales are bad. Microsoft R&D interviews the targeted demographic on how to improve it. Diablo sales down, they do the same thing and interview people. They say "We hate chinese gold farmers." Get it?
This example does not apply well to what I said at all. You're asking for monthly growth on a one time payment option. Where's the upsale? Where's the subscription fee? Where's the extras one can buy after purchase? N/A here. WoW has 9.6 active monthly subscritpions. That's where the can grow montly and will try to. Thats my point.

Uh? What? You seem to have replied trying your very best -- but you have once again shown complete lack of comprehension. Are you throwing around big words hoping they will aid your credibility? 90% of your fragmented sentences have no relevance to the conversation (market capitalization? lol?)

Your point was (and seemingly still is) that since Diablo 3 is failing, they will just run ad campaigns for World of Warcraft and thus do not care about botters. Your homework is to explain why this logic is flawed.

Microsoft Research and Development has nothing to do with targeting demographics. That falls on their marketing department. That Google'd business degree you have is doing wonders for you.

Was under the assumption you would realize 100:1 was figurative as I was trying to stress a point. It was placed to over emphasize the scenario. It even contained a 'Wadafuq' to show I wasn't expected to be acruate with those numbers. Next time incase someone takes obviously extreme over exagerations literally like a moron, I'll include a bibliography with all my sources and not make jokes. Maybe you're mad my other numbers are real and make sense? Don't answer I won't reply.

Can you point me to the context clues that would allow me to deduce which parts of your ramblings is subjective nonsense. Hint: The point is everything you say is ex facie, hence this `argument`.

Says the guy who only brings up only corporate america about an internationl company. Before you cry all NASDAQ and California HQ crap I know this already. Just saying that if it wasn't for sales outside of your country Blizzard would fail. Corporate america isn't all that matters. We're talking about international product on international forums. Closed minded was the america remark.
Oh, and how many of those 12 million sales are actually in US? Don't know? Don't answer.

Uh haha. I like how you correct yourself but still feel the need to type more words.

"Why are you bringing up US corporate culture for a US founded, Headquartered, and run company"

Actually I'm pretty sure they will see new boxes sold as new boxes sold. Customer satisfaction is and loyalty is what comes immediately after, which Diablo 3 sorely lacks.

You're impressively dull. Have you ever been in a meeting before?

Perhaps if I turn my point into a screenplay ...

Boss: It seems average play time has been way down. (You can look at this as -5 points for Mr. Peon)
Peon: We are aware and are working diligently to correct this via upcoming content patches. The good news is that our playerbase is steadily rising, netting positive sales and slightly skewing the Playtime/Playerbase metric. (You can look at this as +2 points for Mr. Peon)

Oh don't worry about that. You've already proven what you know. Secondly, no one would care if you even have any at this point.
This was just stating anyone from Tesla to an illiterate baffoon has the right to their own opinion. I'm sure you fit in that scale. That is all.

Buffoon*

It was stated it's possible.

Your entire argument that it is implausible and that we require the demeanor of the most eccentric conspiracy theorists to believe such an outlandish idea. Stop backtracking, hold your ground.

Some people play a lot more than you think. Also, if this were the case, people who cycle 3 accounts 8 hours a day botting would not get hit, but they do.

Sigh... you are exhausting.

#1. No one plays 24/7 for weeks straight.

#2. If you were half as intelligent as you pretend to be, you'd see that I was clearly stating even with conservative thresholds, you could ban the most obvious ones. Not that you could catch & ban all of them.

No, the don't. They have multiple devs. Not every dev is a programmer. Do you even understand how to make a video game?

You are so cute arguing semantics as a last ditch effort. Unfortunately, you are (once again) wrong.

In the industry, when describing an individual, a game "developer" is typically synonymous with "software developer" / "programmer"

So here I'm going to say, clearly we're on a different level. You know I disagree with you, great. Done here.

Tedious.

 

[treckin]