[Apoc - Nesox] Question

[xsol]

This is a simple question, and for those who will want to flame go ahead.

Way back in time, as far back as I can remember, people have theorized that game companies log and detect movement and other actions; which they then analyze and use to ban botters. People have been encouraged to add random sleeps to AitoIt, to randomize x,y,z waypoints where they can or use other AI systems to create behavior that is not exactly the same every time.

One of my personal choices for this is using AI logic that selects from sets of "farms" and uses them for x random runs etc and that is great and will help a robot look less like a robot; that is something I can reliably do given enough capabilities and or investment of my own time.

A lot of people think they are being caught by logs; I personally do not believe they log my every action and run it though the IsBOT algorithm, but I do not think it is pointless to have extra protection from exact patterns.

I believe it was Harko years ago that said he used internal random wait timers (Thread.Sleep) in the bot REQUIEM (GW1) to increase it's random behavior or the appearance of it. That is great but, I don't think it is enough to have a major effect.

Here finally is my question:

Other than the obvious issues of getting stuck, is there any reason you guys could not automatically adjust waypoints to vary by n1+X, n2+Y? Perhaps make a setting in DB that each user can adjust; this allows the user to be responsible for getting stuck if they to chose to use this variance feature.

I know to some this will just sound retarded and to some it will sound great; I'm just curious what the "pros" have to say, and I'm interested in what users think as well.

 

[Kickazz006]

in HB there's a random function for hotspots (you have to add it to profiles)

i'm sure we could make a random dice roll and have it pick 1 out of X user defined points

			<!-- Deploy to a random place inside Stormwind -->
			<If Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Elder's mailbox" X="-8859.798" Y="640.8622" Z="96.28608" />
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Backgate Bank" X="-8360.063" Y="620.2231" Z="95.35557" />
				</ElseIf>
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Cathedral Square mailbox" X="-8657.595" Y="775.6388" Z="96.99747" />
				</ElseIf>
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Fishing pier mailbox"  X="-8826.954" Y="729.8922" Z="98.42244" />
				</ElseIf>
			<Else Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Canal mailbox" X="-8752.236" Y="561.497" Z="97.43406" />
				</Else>
			</If>

 

[xsol]

in HB there's a random function for hotspots (you have to add it to profiles)

i'm sure we could make a random dice roll and have it pick 1 out of X user defined points

			<!-- Deploy to a random place inside Stormwind -->
			<If Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Elder's mailbox" X="-8859.798" Y="640.8622" Z="96.28608" />
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Backgate Bank" X="-8360.063" Y="620.2231" Z="95.35557" />
				</ElseIf>
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Cathedral Square mailbox" X="-8657.595" Y="775.6388" Z="96.99747" />
				</ElseIf>
			<ElseIf Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Fishing pier mailbox"  X="-8826.954" Y="729.8922" Z="98.42244" />
				</ElseIf>
			<Else Condition="Chance(20.0)">
				<CustomBehavior File="FlyTo" DestName="Canal mailbox" X="-8752.236" Y="561.497" Z="97.43406" />
				</Else>
			</If>

Is Chance an internal function?

 

[Kickazz006]

I dunno, i don't fiddle with the bot

 

[mephuser1000]

This is a simple question, and for those who will want to flame go ahead.

Way back in time, as far back as I can remember, people have theorized that game companies log and detect movement and other actions; which they then analyze and use to ban botters. People have been encouraged to add random sleeps to AitoIt, to randomize x,y,z waypoints where they can or use other AI systems to create behavior that is not exactly the same every time.

One of my personal choices for this is using AI logic that selects from sets of "farms" and uses them for x random runs etc and that is great and will help a robot look less like a robot; that is something I can reliably do given enough capabilities and or investment of my own time.

A lot of people think they are being caught by logs; I personally do not believe they log my every action and run it though the IsBOT algorithm, but I do not think it is pointless to have extra protection from exact patterns.

I believe it was Harko years ago that said he used internal random wait timers (Thread.Sleep) in the bot REQUIEM (GW1) to increase it's random behavior or the appearance of it. That is great but, I don't think it is enough to have a major effect.

Here finally is my question:

Other than the obvious issues of getting stuck, is there any reason you guys could not automatically adjust waypoints to vary by n1+X, n2+Y? Perhaps make a setting in DB that each user can adjust; this allows the user to be responsible for getting stuck if they to chose to use this variance feature.

I know to some this will just sound retarded and to some it will sound great; I'm just curious what the "pros" have to say, and I'm interested in what users think as well.

Finally someone agrees with on my theory that Blizzard datamines all of our movement coordinates and then feeds it into their Inference Machine/Neural Network to decide the bans.

Before Wrath, Blizzard needed to schedule this task during maintenance. Somewhere, during Wrath, Blizzard was able to run this task every 2 days.

 

[zippysticks]

Why not create the same profile 4 times with different paths like for sark, make it go in a zig zag every other profile. There's a plugin to switch profiles each time. Only thing I can think of for randomizing a little.

 

[xsol]

I was also trying to consider things like AGB, but eventually things like AGB may not be needed or popular I suppose.

 

[jimjohnson]

I was also trying to consider things like AGB, but eventually things like AGB may not be needed or popular I suppose.

If the core DB runs how it is suppose to you should not need plugins like AGB. Your scripts should do everything with Plugins adding functionality not control.

 

[xsol]

If the core DB runs how it is suppose to you should not need plugins like AGB. Your scripts should do everything with Plugins adding functionality not control.

GPH for that matter is totally pointless but it is so cool a trendy :0

 

[xsol]

ouch! after rereading http://www.thebuddyforum.com/buddy-...rbuddy-honorbuddy-forum-rules-guidelines.html I do apologize for rule breaking, thanks for not c r a c k i n g down on me kick

 

[swolbyn]

Thats interesting that HB has a random type function. Hmm. i still think it would make more sense to build it as an option into the pathPrecision property itself. seems cleaner, and doesn't make the xml get enormous. But whatever we can get I'd be happy with

 

[BabySuperman]

no.

there is no way they are wasting time and storing so much info, when you could track one or two metrics to bag people.

that's suchan outlandish idea, ask anyone who designs huge infrastructures, not going to happen.

 

[swolbyn]

no.

there is no way they are wasting time and storing so much info, when you could track one or two metrics to bag people.

that's suchan outlandish idea, ask anyone who designs huge infrastructures, not going to happen.

They may not be storing them per say. They may be spot checking manually and watching you for a few games. some decent consistent variation would at least make it not quite so obvious.

 

[BabySuperman]

They may not be storing them per say. They may be spot checking manually and watching you for a few games. some decent consistent variation would at least make it not quite so obvious.

I'm telling you, that's a huge waste of time, they aren't tracking it.

 

[swolbyn]

I'm telling you, that's a huge waste of time, they aren't tracking it.

K mr expert. Then explain all the inconsistencies in the ban reports. There is no real pattern. All signs point to manually checking and banning. But then again I can't prove it. nobody can. you can tell people all day long that they aren't but that does not make it true.

 

[no1knowsy]

Lets do some bullshit math here.

In NA alone there are 200+ servers, so 200 just as a reference.
They are probably anywhere between 750-7500 user logged into these servers.
So a bunch are full, others are medium, others are next to empty. So lets go with 2500 users per server at any one time (I reference the term bullshit, but it makes sense.)

2500 x 200 = 500,000 online during low-medium playing times for NA.

Say 1/4 are running dungeons, 1/4 are PvPing, 1/4 are out botting/farming/questing, and the other 1/4 are just being lazy sitting in the main city.
so .75 (or 3/4) of that are actively moving and interacting. .75 x 500,000 = 375,000

I'll make up another bullshit number of say a minimum of 100 interactions a minute. If we included where a character moves to/stops/right-clicks/etc it would be well over 1k. (think of how much you move when you don't have to. Or how many times you spam your key-binds.)

So in 1 minute we have: 100 x 375,000 = 37,500,000 potentially "logged" actions.
To furthermore enforce the idea, there are 1440 minutes in a day.
Take the above 37.5mil x 1440 and you have 54,000,000,000 potential log entries every day!


Even with the MASSIVE storage drives available today that's a SHIT TON of log entries.

They don't log your every move.
They are pretty much confirmed of at least keeping temp logs of (X number of kills of X in X time/X harvests in X time/etc)

The most likely cause of bans these days is player reports. Those who take the time to actually report someone they see, which has become much easier for the clients, but has given a much higher workload for those who work for Activision Blizzard who have to sift through all the reports and decide if they are legitimate or not.

Also, Blizzard doesn't really deploy GMs into the server to check for bots anymore. You'll rarely ever actually "see" one. When you are chatting with them they aren't normally even logged into a character, but are interacting with the server through special software they have deployed at their workplace.


Blizzard doesn't log everything. They do log a lot, and for good reason. Character/gear retrieval. Chat logs. Achievements. Statistics. Et Cetera...



Just my 20 cents,
P4nda.


Edit: I just realized how long this post got, and how fast I was typing while creating it. Please refrain from pointing out grammatical/spelling/bullshit errors.

 

[BabySuperman]

K mr expert. Then explain all the inconsistencies in the ban reports. There is no real pattern. All signs point to manually checking and banning. But then again I can't prove it. nobody can. you can tell people all day long that they aren't but that does not make it true.

post above me is right.

those could easily be bans based on usage statistics..........blizz hates false positives

 

[xsol]

I believe I said early on; server side statistics are your worst enemy, I started this thread to put the option out there to diversify because it would make a lot of *PARANOID* people feel safe.

And, end of the day, every safety measure taken within reason is a plus if you value your account at all, want to protect your investment, or you are just poor.

 

[Inrego]

I call bullshit on this thread. I have been botting wow for about 6 years, and Diablo since DB release, and I have NEVER experienced a ban. Back in the glider days there weren't even navigation, only moving from hotspot to hotshot. There was no such thing as anti stuck, so if there was a tree between 2 hotspots, it would get stuck on that tree every time.

 

[xsol]

I call bullshit on this thread. I have been botting wow for about 6 years, and Diablo since DB release, and I have NEVER experienced a ban. Back in the glider days there weren't even navigation, only moving from hotspot to hotshot. There was no such thing as anti stuck, so if there was a tree between 2 hotspots, it would get stuck on that tree every time.

You're right, that is why even in my OP I say that I personally do not think they log everything and run through the IsBOT algorithm but some people seem to really believe blizzard has god like powers and omniscience.

The more dev/programmers who point this fact out the better, but I still say:


End of the day, every safety measure taken within reason is a plus if you value your account at all, want to protect your investment, or you are just poor.