Developer Rules Update

[theatristformallyknownasG]

Yes, agree with znuffle, a lot of .cc programmers seem to have "real life issues" (can't do much about earthquakes though) and disappear for months at a time, or are simply unstable human beings to start with, I can remember on huge dummy spit that was extremely childish by one developer. This is the hardest part when a programmers goes AWOL the end users who have loved their work suddenly are faced with problems when HB suddenly decides to change the rules and the .cc no longer works. There is no real alternative currently provided by HB in singular, (yes I use it now and then but it is simply horrible for some classes) so the end user of HB has no way to operate their bot, they get very frustrated and jump on the boards to vent their anger.

A lot of programmers I work with have the same problem as some of the .cc developers too, it's my way or the highway, no-one else could possibly know a better way to program than me, so how can my code be improved upon, arrogance at it's best. Everyone has their own idea on how to accomplish a task and has to take onboard someone else may have a better twist on an idea than them, not just rule it out completely.

What to do though, thats the hard part. I can't see HB only supporting one .cc that is contributed too by many people, too many egos spoil the .cc. Individual .cc's developed by programmers that go awol isn;'t helpful either. Will be interested as to the outcome of all this.

G

 

[Kronz]

Why, it's their work, G, it's their original idea, and quite understandably they will stand for their ideas. You are talking here about volunteer developers who volunteer their time, efforts and intellectual work towards the improvement of HB, not about a team of paid developers who are working as one towards achieving an objective set by Bossland.

Most developers here are very open-minded. Really. They take ideas and proposals and feedback into consideration, but just taking their work and releasing a spin-off of it obviously enrages them. I don't know why people expect this to pass without consequences, as the volunteer developers can do perfectly fine without HB and find another cause to contribute to, but the community will suffer at the end, when we are left with no community developers and just the official overworked team.

 

[Inrego]

It's like evey single nay-sayer think that ppl will release code where they only changed a few lines. That's most likely not gonna happen, and they'll be filtered out rly fast by the community.

 

[Maxasy]

It's like evey single nay-sayer think that ppl will release code where they only changed a few lines. That's most likely not gonna happen, and they'll be filtered out rly fast by the community.

Exactly.


Do all those CC coders really do it for the fact that 100% of the code is yours? Do you do it for recognition? Or do you do it because you want to help the community?

How much is it really affecting you to have someone use your code - in most cases likely changing more than a line or two (or if it is just a line or two, most likely because the original CC owners are too busy, or don't care to get to it themselves) - is it going to change your lives, are you going to lose future jobs or careers as someone wont believe it's your work? Really?? You should be doing it for the community I feel... we know who wrote the original code - and it's going to be obvious which CC makers in the future simply edit a line or two, compared to those who put in serious work to get things up to par. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as many are making it. We know the original is your work, and always will be. But you need to understand many of you are so busy that things rarely get updated on time, or sometimes even accurately. This is not to have someone steal your work, it's to allow more people to get into making these things, learning, and helping out our community here at honorbuddy...

I really hope you developers reconsider your stance on this matter and understand the ones who are suffering are those of us in the community, and those who want to help projects move forward. Those who truly want to steal code, will just do it anyway.

 

[buzzerbeater]

I am a little bit confused:

If you release your 'product' as 'free to use and abuse', you may not change your mind later when it suits you to. If you wish to change the 'license' on it, please create a new release thread.

This is a rule stated in the new Rules, so why just Venus and FPSWare etc do this and be safe because you are not under a "BSD" license?

Little confused, maybe someone can clear this up for me.

 

[paperc07]

Yes, there is a point talking about it. We, as end users lose if the developers feel like leaving. What are we going to be stuck with ? Singular, which is barely capable of properly handling leveling and grinding.

AutoAngler ? Forget it.
Glue ? Yeah, right.
PVPRogue ? Lol nice one.
FPSWare ? What the hell is that.
Numerous plugins, which make our lives better ? Gone down the drain.

While abandoned projects is OK to be tweaked and fixed and supported by copy-pasters, until a real coder offers a suitable replacement, if developers of active projects don't want to work under the new license terms, perhaps it would be better if Bossland talked to the developers and ironed out the license policy to satisfy them.

Whoever said there is no community here earlier in the thread was correct. There is just us, a bunch of customers, who paid for the bot and use whatever materials are posted on the forums, and then there are developers who post new stuff for all of us to use.

I don't know what exactly has lead to the downfall of HB, but I see a very sharp difference from where it used to be in Wrath and now, at the end of Cata, and things are much worse. Let me summarize the present state of this so called community for those of you, who think it's too complicated and deep. Protip - it's not.

1. We have like 5 developers here who contribute.
2. We have a user base of people who mainly lurk, try to fight with the worthless search engine, or to dig up through tons of outdated guides and advice, which is no longer applicable at best.
3. We have users who constantly beg for help and advice, only there are too few knowledgeable posters outside of the official dev team, who can provide it.
4. We have an overworked dev team, which now tries to support not just WoW, but SWTOR, too. Their numbers are little and their efforts are too stretched out to be of much help, even though they try very hard.
5. We have a giant section of "archived" materials, which can no longer be of any real use to end users, but they are still there to remind us "where we were".

What comes out of all of this ? Here is what.
1. We get like a total of 7 working CC's, most of them useful only for leveling, existing because Singular failed at some stage of its life at some class mechanic and it was annoying enough for someone to issue a fix in the form a different CC. We have, in fact, more "Custom Classes" forum subsections than there are CC's for, as most CC's in these sub-forums are dead and the remaining can barely fill a single forum.
2. We get a ton of reposts of user questions, all of which can be safely pruned and instead summarized into a single manual. Such a manual will make 99% of the "user-generated content" on this forum obsolete, and also relieve the staff of constantly having to answer the same questions over and over.
3. We get bug reports, which again, after taken into careful consideration, can be summarized into a single sticky in a dedicated forum of their own, with advice for customers how to work around the bugs while a fix is released.

Really, this forum looks big at first sight, but after browsing for a bit it becomes clear very fast how dead it actually is. I would suggest, for the sake of everyone involved that Bossland sit down, talk to the community developers and come up with a satisfactory solution for all sides, as people who contribute volunteer work can very easily leave if they don't like something and currently we have almost no real developers outside of the official dev team. Only the exceptional work of the official dev team keeps this bot going now.

I am just saying they don't care if people bitch, I wish they did but they will just end up banning you like they did Swiny

 

[Croga]

I am just saying they don't care if people bitch, I wish they did but they will just end up banning you like they did Swiny

Just to put you straight:
Swiny had been bitching, namecalling, complaining, harassing and pretty much being a *bleep* for a very long time. Eventually he literally said "So ban me!" and they obliged him.
But this topic isn't about him. No topic should ever be about him again to be honest.

 

[paperc07]

Just to put you straight:
Swiny had been bitching, namecalling, complaining, harassing and pretty much being a *bleep* for a very long time. Eventually he literally said "So ban me!" and they obliged him.
But this topic isn't about him. No topic should ever be about him again to be honest.

ok so exactly what im saying bitching, namecalling, complaining and all that is pointless and in turn will just get you banned

 

[Croga]

ok so exactly what im saying bitching, namecalling, complaining and all that is pointless and in turn will just get you banned

You may want to reread my post again. Specifically the part where Swiny asked for a ban.
Bitching and complaining won't get you banned. Harassing and namecalling will get you a warning. Doing all that and then asking for a ban will, indeed, get you banned.

 

[CodenameG]

You may want to reread my post again. Specifically the part where Swiny asked for a ban.
Bitching and complaining won't get you banned. Harassing and namecalling will get you a warning. Doing all that and then asking for a ban will, indeed, get you banned.

exactly, we dont ban people unless we have a reason. if you dont break any rules and dont go around trolling for 3 months, then we have no reason to ban you.

 

[fiftypence]

This is a rule stated in the new Rules, so why just Venus and FPSWare etc do this and be safe because you are not under a "BSD" license?

Little confused, maybe someone can clear this up for me.

Previously a developer could release his or her work under whichever licence they preferred on the Honorbuddy forums, which is where your quote originates from. The policy change means that the HB team will only accept code licensed under the BSD licence to be posted here.

 

[Kronz]

My thoughts on the code sharing is this. You are either anal retentive or trying to make a buck on the code if you do not like the change. The whole idea of making code for the bot is that is under the pretense it will be shared. Yes, we all like to get paid, but in this regard it has always been a community driven thing. This is why HB got so big. It was community driven and people prospered as they shared. I whole heartedly agree that if someone just copies your code and sticks a donate this sign on it is just plain plagiarism with a money grab attached. In this instance I believe there is warrant to remove them from the boards. But if people are using your code and sharing.. why not use theirs and make better products? If you make better products, people will be more than happy to donate. Sure it isn't going to make you a mint.. but hey some beer funds is better than none and it was all gotten for something you were going to do anyways.

This change benefits the community a lot more than the old way. If you can not see it then there is something blinding you. Your job is to find out what is causing the short shortsightedness and fix it.

Phelon, your argument is compelling, but is lacking in only one regard.

I have never ever seen you develop anything of your own for HB and post it here. Can't you see, as an end-user that if all developers leave this community, there will be no one left to write new code for script kiddies to toy with and in the end, the bot will go to hell, because the default stuff that ships with it is barely adequate to cover grinding and questing ?

We had CLU, UNITY, PVPRogue and other excellent, remarkable CC's which would help us achieve actually something in the game, now development on these has ceased and the developers will not return, because they are doing it for fun, in their spare time, not for beer money. These people wrote remarkable, excellent stuff and never asked for a penny, so your argument about "greed" is void, and as for the "anally retentive" part, I would rather not comment on it, as no serious, grown up, mature person is supposed to answer such comments.

Obviously, the developers don't think allowing people to simply "borrow" their code with no permission is OK with them and this needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Urgent amends and changes need to be made to this new policy, or this community will die.

Yes, perhaps they want some recognition for their hard, FREE for us to use work.

 

[wulf]

Hi Kronz, CLU is still active. I haven't gone anywhere, I will be here supporting the community for quite a while

 

[romantic179]

phelon, your argument is compelling, but is lacking in only one regard.

I have never ever seen you develop anything of your own for hb and post it here. Can't you see, as an end-user that if all developers leave this community, there will be no one left to write new code for script kiddies to toy with and in the end, the bot will go to hell, because the default stuff that ships with it is barely adequate to cover grinding and questing ?

We had clu, unity, pvprogue and other excellent, remarkable cc's which would help us achieve actually something in the game, now development on these has ceased and the developers will not return, because they are doing it for fun, in their spare time, not for beer money. These people wrote remarkable, excellent stuff and never asked for a penny, so your argument about "greed" is void, and as for the "anally retentive" part, i would rather not comment on it, as no serious, grown up, mature person is supposed to answer such comments.

Obviously, the developers don't think allowing people to simply "borrow" their code with no permission is ok with them and this needs to be rectified as soon as possible. Urgent amends and changes need to be made to this new policy, or this community will die.

Yes, perhaps they want some recognition for their hard, free for us to use work.

true!

 

[ShortRound]

Hi Kronz, CLU is still active. I haven't gone anywhere, I will be here supporting the community for quite a while

And this is why we love you wulf.

Methinks the key issues here are respect and support. Respect original code writers to credit their offerings (or, if they request no changes, like for ShamWOW, then oblige), and in turn, if you release a CC or plugin, then support it. Non-supported submissions should get relegated to the archive (which has always been the case), and the original writer (who still supports their work) remains in the primary thread.

 

[HB0916H38]

Nice


I had some problems in the past for posting improvements in two CC 'ILoveAnimals from handnavi' and `Paladin Tank from handnavi` .... Codenameg almost got me ban..


Now I see that I can post the CC `s better .. and I could not publish because of the arrogance Dev `s.


Very good initiative to change the rules.


I have several customized to CC`s End Game. I'll be uploading them in sequence.


Thank Honorbuddy team


apologies my english


Brazil ^^

 

[handnavi]

Nice


I had some problems in the past for posting improvements in two CC 'ILoveAnimals from handnavi' and `Paladin Tank from handnavi` .... Codenameg almost got me ban..


Now I see that I can post the CC `s better .. and I could not publish because of the arrogance Dev `s.


Very good initiative to change the rules.


I have several customized to CC`s End Game. I'll be uploading them in sequence.


Thank Honorbuddy team


apologies my english


Brazil ^^

Arrogant devs. Aha. Are you serious? You wont release my stuff. I am still here.

 

[HB0916H38]

i`m your fan ^^


great job on ILoveAnimals and anothers CC...
I learned a lot watching your CC.

 

[SpigotStyle]

I have never ever seen you develop anything of your own for HB and post it here. Can't you see, as an end-user that if all developers leave this community, there will be no one left to write new code for script kiddies to toy with and in the end, the bot will go to hell, because the default stuff that ships with it is barely adequate to cover grinding and questing ?

You really haven't looked very hard then

http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorb...er-intelligent-boomkin-class-lazy-raider.html
http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorb...ngular-fire-mage-pvp-includes-spellsteal.html
http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorb.../51190-plugin-bgbuddy-ultimate-pvp-suite.html

Just because he isn't in your personal known developer circlejerk doesn't mean that he doesn't develop. Additionally, your passive agressive attempt at trying to come off as more mature is moot. By stating "

as no serious, grown up, mature person is supposed to answer such comments", you are implying that he is neither serious, grown up, or mature and are equally at fault for playing the name calling game.

​

 

[kayes]

Nice


I had some problems in the past for posting improvements in two CC 'ILoveAnimals from handnavi' and `Paladin Tank from handnavi` .... Codenameg almost got me ban..


Now I see that I can post the CC `s better .. and I could not publish because of the arrogance Dev `s.


Very good initiative to change the rules.


I have several customized to CC`s End Game. I'll be uploading them in sequence.


Thank Honorbuddy team


apologies my english


Brazil ^^

Sorry mr. But I think ill stick with Handnavi's releases however awesome "your" releases is. Thank you.