Do we need another all in one CC, do we need Fpsware Unity?

[fpsware]

As some of you may already be aware I've been working on my new base CC template for a couple of weeks now. It is a complete rewrite of my 'core' system I use with all my CCs.

As part of the rewrite I've been developing it with generic reuseability in mind, to put it in laymans terms, it is as generic as possible and all class specific logic/code is segregated. This has resulted in an unexpected bonus for me, it lends itself very well to being implemented as a single CC or imbeded into a multi CC project.

Thus brings me to my question, do we need another all in one CC, do we need Fpsware Unity?

Regardless of how my new range of CCs are implemented they will look exactly the same, the UI will be no different if you are using a single CC or Unity. Maintaining this actually becomes much easier than if it were individual CCs, the core/common features exist as a single project and is used by all class specific CCs, the class specific files (3 logic files + Settings XMLs) are the only things that differ between them. Each class will still have the same "Fpsware CC" look and feel about it.

For those of you who have been around since the very early days this is a project I have undertaken before. The results at the time were .... mixed to say the least. The only thing that has changed now is knowledge and there are a lot more developers to spunge ideas from

Will this allow users to create logic files such as Singular does?
No.

Will this make development of CCs quicker?
YES! Utilizing the Unity framework I have been able to create a raid DPS capable Warlock for all THREE trees in about 2 hours - including testing. It does not have a UI, it does not have any customiseability its a straight out DPS machine.

 

[mspazz]

I would love to see this.

 

[wownerds]

First of all, fpsware, thank you for all the effort you've put in your CCs!

Since you've been gone, Singular has developed quite a bit. At first, I really loved using FPSware CCs for all my leveling processes. When they were outdated, I switched to Singular, which, in terms of leveling, still had some flaws. Luckily enough, those flaws have all been taken care of and Singular is an easy to set up and easy to use CC for leveling and basic BGs and can be left AFK without regret.

For other purposes, such as rated BGs or raiding/dungeons, I've always preferred either complete LazyRaider CCs or special, frequently updated Raid/PvP CCs.

I, personally, do not see the need for another AiO CC, though the idea sounds great. It is a lot of work for you to initially create CCs for every class and every specc. But even more time-consuming and effortful is the task to keep all of these up to date. Please do not get me wrong here, the majority of people loved your CCs, because they were perfect for leveling and such, but when they became outdated, people seemed to have only little interest in your work. As Singular's development has gone really far, I'd rather see you join their dev-team or make one or too amazing CCs, suited for both, leveling and end-game content.

Regards,

wownerds

 

[alexhoover]

Will this make development of CCs quicker?
YES! Utilizing the Unity framework I have been able to create a raid DPS capable Warlock for all THREE trees in about 2 hours - including testing. It does not have a UI, it does not have any customiseability its a straight out DPS machine.

It's funny that you mentioned this. With the release of the RaidBot bot base I think we need to start seeing more CCs like this: simple CCs that focus on the best DPS output rather than customizability and other features.

 

[Obliv]

I'd like to see you help out with Singular, or make specific CCs.

I feel like Singular should be the all-in-one CC... and more "open" in terms of people like yourself being able to expand and enhance it. If that's not possible, I'd like to see class specific CCs that are better than what we have. Easy to configure and "smart" CCs are what I think we need more of.

 

[Toney001]

It's nice to have you back man, you've been missed.

As to your question, whatever makes it easier for you. It certainly doesn't hurt to have options, and you're probably the most experienced of the CC devs so I think we'd all benefit.

Ultimately it's up to you. Thanks for sharing your time with us!

 

[fpsware]

First of all, fpsware, thank you for all the effort you've put in your CCs!

Since you've been gone, Singular has developed quite a bit. At first, I really loved using FPSware CCs for all my leveling processes. When they were outdated, I switched to Singular, which, in terms of leveling, still had some flaws. Luckily enough, those flaws have all been taken care of and Singular is an easy to set up and easy to use CC for leveling and basic BGs and can be left AFK without regret.

For other purposes, such as rated BGs or raiding/dungeons, I've always preferred either complete LazyRaider CCs or special, frequently updated Raid/PvP CCs.

I, personally, do not see the need for another AiO CC, though the idea sounds great. It is a lot of work for you to initially create CCs for every class and every specc. But even more time-consuming and effortful is the task to keep all of these up to date. Please do not get me wrong here, the majority of people loved your CCs, because they were perfect for leveling and such, but when they became outdated, people seemed to have only little interest in your work. As Singular's development has gone really far, I'd rather see you join their dev-team or make one or too amazing CCs, suited for both, leveling and end-game content.

Regards,

wownerds

Thank you for such a well formed reply. To a point, I agree with almost everything you raised, again, to a point.

When I left, approximately 5 to 6 months ago, Singular was in need of a great deal of polishing. But as with any good product time only makes things better, as is evident by Singular in its current state and given the current developers working on this project it will only continue to do so.

Life is all about choice. Even if there was a perfect mousetrap I would still try to come up with another mousetrap just so you have a choice. Not saying my mousetrap will be better than anyone else's mousetrap but at least you have a choice.

I have used Singular on many occasions and I have to admit it is impressive and for the most part does the job well. But, I would still like the choice of another CC as capable or more capable. Can you imagine a world where you only had Apple computers? Sure, everything would probably "just work", lol, but wouldn't you always feel there was something missing? (EDIT: Emmm...maybe Apple was not a good anology, they do make good phones ) For a while I had thought about doing something with Singular but I always come back to my own thing.

If all goes well and my development continues as originally designed my CCs should offer the user a greater range of choice and also expand to fill the more niche requirements such as high DPS output raiding.

Regards
Mike / Fpsware

 

[pbettell]

My thoughts are you should do it.

The reasoning behind this is the lack of appropriate development for singular as a leveling CC. It works, but not as well as it could, and the larger issue is that there are so many developers for it now, updates come thick and fast, therefore if you forget to do an SVN checkout before you start your session, the frustration could build quickly.

The other issue I have with singular is the large variablility of config options. Some classes are very good, but others seem to be nothing short of pathetic. An all in one CC which has the usual very high levels of customisability (is that even a word??) that we have seen in your prior cc's would be brilliant. The other big difference between your cc's and singular (basing this on the new priest you had up a week or so ago) is the custom rotation right from the config.

So to sum up, do it man, I love your work.

 

[wownerds]

Thank you for such a well formed reply. To a point, I agree with almost everything you raised, again, to a point.

When I left, approximately 5 to 6 months ago, Singular was in need of a great deal of polishing. But as with any good product time only makes things better, as is evident by Singular in its current state and given the current developers working on this project it will only continue to do so.

Life is all about choice. Even if there was a perfect mousetrap I would still try to come up with another mousetrap just so you have a choice. Not saying my mousetrap will be better than anyone else's mousetrap but at least you have a choice.

I have used Singular on many occasions and I have to admit it is impressive and for the most part does the job well. But, I would still like the choice of another CC as capable or more capable. Can you imagine a world where you only had Apple computers? Sure, everything would probably "just work", lol, but wouldn't you always feel there was something missing? (EDIT: Emmm...maybe Apple was not a good anology, they do make good phones ) For a while I had thought about doing something with Singular but I always come back to my own thing.

If all goes well and my development continues as originally designed my CCs should offer the user a greater range of choice and also expand to fill the more niche requirements such as high DPS output raiding.

Regards
Mike / Fpsware

You raise a valid point there. If it's about variety, you should definitely do it. But then again, the question is does the "casual" botter really need this. Regard recent support issues, some people do not even seem to manage setting up Singular. I am certain that those people are not neccessarily in your scope, but still, they exist in great numbers.

One of the questions that came to my mind while thinking about your post was the following: If you chose to create an AiO CC, would this one be included in the download verison of HonorBuddy as well, or would it be an optional forum download? For most people, this question may not seem that important, but in terms of the simplicity of the bot it is.

An other, more obvious question was this one: Are you back for good? If so, and if you can keep your AiO CC updated, this would be a great plus. I just don't want to see your code vanish into oblivion once again.

Regards,

wownerds

 

[fpsware]

My thoughts are you should do it.

The reasoning behind this is the lack of appropriate development for singular as a leveling CC. It works, but not as well as it could, and the larger issue is that there are so many developers for it now, updates come thick and fast, therefore if you forget to do an SVN checkout before you start your session, the frustration could build quickly.

The other issue I have with singular is the large variablility of config options. Some classes are very good, but others seem to be nothing short of pathetic. An all in one CC which has the usual very high levels of customisability (is that even a word??) that we have seen in your prior cc's would be brilliant. The other big difference between your cc's and singular (basing this on the new priest you had up a week or so ago) is the custom rotation right from the config.

So to sum up, do it man, I love your work.

"Customisability" is a word I made up while having a blonde moment, but you get the general idea LOL

All of my CCs will continue to have the same level of user customization you have come to expect from my CCs. And all of my new 'complete' CCs will have full spell rotation customization.

 

[Obliv]

"Customisability" is a word I made up while having a blonde moment, but you get the general idea LOL

All of my CCs will continue to have the same level of user customization you have come to expect from my CCs. And all of my new 'complete' CCs will have full spell rotation customization.

If it's the normal customization you have in others... do an all-in-one! I don't really think advanced rotation customization (ARC... I coined the term just now ) will be nearly as nice as having CCs that have the right rotation and some basic customization.

 

[fpsware]

You raise a valid point there. If it's about variety, you should definitely do it. But then again, the question is does the "casual" botter really need this. Regard recent support issues, some people do not even seem to manage setting up Singular. I am certain that those people are not neccessarily in your scope, but still, they exist in great numbers.

One of the questions that came to my mind while thinking about your post was the following: If you chose to create an AiO CC, would this one be included in the download verison of HonorBuddy as well, or would it be an optional forum download? For most people, this question may not seem that important, but in terms of the simplicity of the bot it is.

An other, more obvious question was this one: Are you back for good? If so, and if you can keep your AiO CC updated, this would be a great plus. I just don't want to see your code vanish into oblivion once again.

Regards,

wownerds

Both good points. No, I don't see this being bundled with the HB distribution. Hawker is very specific about 'default' CCs not requiring any configuration and just working 'out of the box'. As for how long I'll be around (this time) all I can say is I don't have any plans to leave soon, but then, nor did I last time. Unfortunately my job at the time turned into 12 hour days, 6-7 days a week and as you can imagine, not leaving time for anything else. This time I have a [new] job that affords me the ability to where and to a greater degree when I want.

 

[CodenameG]

what i would like to see, if maybe

public override WoWClass Class { get { return Me.Class; } }

tied to some easy to edit file, so for people who run something like arelog or don't wanna deal with selecting a CC all the time can turn it off for certain classes.

 

[Ama]

Yeah, I think Fpsware CCs could really use some all-in-one packaging. Although, "Unity" is the name of the ubuntu desktop environment that I really hate. Now when you get ubuntu, you have to get unity. No more gnome.

Idk, maybe you are a big ubuntu fan and hate gnomes.

 

[fpsware]

Yeah, I think Fpsware CCs could really use some all-in-one packaging. Although, "Unity" is the name of the ubuntu desktop environment that I really hate. Now when you get ubuntu, you have to get unity. No more gnome.

Idk, maybe you are a big ubuntu fan and hate gnomes.

Actually the name Unity came from "... emmm... what the hell do I call this thing?... well if I'm uniting all my CCs into one then it could be 'unity' right?". And thus was Fpsware Unity If you have a better name I may use it

 

[Phog]

I don't think there is really a question. But considering it was raised, the answer is "yes". Singular is pretty good, and works well in most cases. I've used Singular to level all my toons, except for a mage I am currently leveling with Amplify just to try something different. But I've often wanted to change something, or just tweak it a bit. I like FPSware's menu system and the ability to easily customize it with that menu.

It is all about choices. Build it and let us choose. That would be wonderful.

 

[shinavaka]

Think it should be named Fpsware Pwnsyourface......All in one? nah serious Fpsware Unity is nice, disregarding the fact that this is more of a thread about the idea of a new and fully customizable AIO cc. i Think it would be great as long as you had customizable templates that were pre-configured for non-advanced users, also i agree with codenameg's post about having a realtime selection process for character talent tree/class selection, unfortunately all i see with that is problems though due to having multiple character setting files. But who knows, food for thought?

 

[weischbier]

I would love to see something like this.
Maybe you can put something decent or even evolved Aio like Singular.
Singular is great and IS by now the greatest tool for customization.
I would love to see something similar from you.
Singular got some problems here and there but all in all its solid but let's be honest some kind of inflexible
(in terms of range for melees (Ultraxion or Madness) and Aoe code, you always need to put in your own Aoe code to make it work).
I would even go further and say: just build a core. People will use it and people with some decent knowledge of CCs know how to edit something like this will be happy.

Just my 2 cents.

greetz

Weischbier

 

[stevebythesea]

FPSWARE > SINGULAR

FPSWARE has more choices/custimization which = more control

/thread

 

[primo]

bring this cc on unity

love to see this