then don't pay..
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Project: The Store
- Thread starter bossland
- Start date
then don't pay..
The only thing that worries me is if a person creates a good profile that many people use and puts it up on the buddy store for free, he will realize many people are downloading it and then convert it to a paid profile. Honestly I feel like any good, popular profile will go paid from this.
Vulture051
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2013
- Messages
- 105
This is pretty messed up and I have a hard time believing the boys upstairs are naive enough to not see what will happen.
Hell, a couple of the plugins I use have already suddenly aquired "Premium" versions.
Hell, a couple of the plugins I use have already suddenly aquired "Premium" versions.
Gleeky
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2013
- Messages
- 173
Yep, and once they see the cash start rolling in, they'll have little incentive to keep up the quality of the non-premium versions unfortunately.
Obliv
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2011
- Messages
- 636
While I agree many devs will start to focus on their paid versions, I don't really see that as a bad thing. We will get more people interested in making higher quality profiles, plug-ins, and CCs because they can actually make some money. I'm sure you'll still see many devs releasing free versions that might be missing a feature so you'll be tempted to buy the paid version (like what happens now).
Now, I do see a problem with the 30 day rating system. IMO that's too long, and you won't see nearly enough reviews. An idea would be to have two separate categories for the reviewers, trial and full. Trial reviews (within refund period) don't count towards the rating, but they do show up as feedback. Full reviews are for those who have had the product longer than 7 days (no more refund) and do count towards the product's rating. Just an idea.
Now, I do see a problem with the 30 day rating system. IMO that's too long, and you won't see nearly enough reviews. An idea would be to have two separate categories for the reviewers, trial and full. Trial reviews (within refund period) don't count towards the rating, but they do show up as feedback. Full reviews are for those who have had the product longer than 7 days (no more refund) and do count towards the product's rating. Just an idea.
Gleeky
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2013
- Messages
- 173
I certainly hope you are right on your 1st point, and I wholeheartedly agree with your 2nd one.
Is there a FAQ or someting for the Store?
Can somebody explain to me what "Streaming" means in my profile page (The resource cannot be found.
Can somebody explain to me what "Streaming" means in my profile page (The resource cannot be found.
The 30 day rating system was just an example how it could look, this is nothing planned yet or released yet. What i had in mind is, to prevent abusing the rankings, and you prevent the abuse when you allow users to rate a bit later, so it does not matter if it is 7,14,30 days. What matters is, to think about the mechanics before we release them.
BotOperator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 5,648
I do not see a problem here. Most of the free routines became a premium version months ago in addition. Only difference is that you had to search for it on the web, where you can now find it in the store.
Second issue you should not forget is:
I a dev starts coding a new product features are limited and time spend on coding and supporting it is low and on a best effort basis.
After hundreds of hours a product grows and also the amount of people using it so it can be a full time job sometimes.
I do not see an issue now that people ask for money to cover time the dev spends on the product.
On point I want to bring up:
For a lot of free versions or profiles on the board I see users raising a demand on the dev to change things, fix things and they blame the dev if stuff does not work or work takes to long.
This does not encourage a dev to speed things up or work on new stuff. It's like always, the amount of people complaining is bigger than the hidden amount of people who are satisfied with what they got but who did not post.
It's a question of mentality. People want everything for free and DEVs to do work for them all the time also for nothing.
Now people CAN start selling their work but this also means they need to sign a contract with HB to support it. It's a win/win for dev and user in my opinion.
If I would be a dev I would instantly go to the store and use it for my products to get money for my work and also to reduce the flame from free user not giving anything back in return.
I as user like the idea to buy a product and then can request support instead of using a free version and need to hope for support.
If you do not like the shop - DON'T USE IT. No one forces you to do so.
If you want extras for your bot where a devs spend hundreds of hours in development you are free to pay for it.
If you buy a car, you get a car. If you want extras you pay for it. It's up to you if you need and want it or not.
The store is up and running a couple of days now. Give us and the DEVs a chance to work with it.
I am sure it will get some updates soon based on user and dev feedback but don't judge about it without giving it a chance.
Joker76
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2010
- Messages
- 835
Can you provide some more detail on the contract? What if a developer stops supporting a product after 30 days, 60 days, even a year? Will Honorbuddy step in and issue a refund if it's within x amount of time?
I've been here long enough to see A LOT of developers come and go, leaving work unfinished/unsupported. Even projects that I donated to, the developer lost interest or stopped playing WoW, or had real life commitments, or whatever. I'm all for people being paid for their work but I can see this turning into a mess if it isn't regulated properly.
Why it is unrealistic? It is support time of 18months for paid product imho it should be longer.
Anyway, problem what I see now, is that bought products from store can´t be modified.
If you don´t want mail greens, but sell them, you can´t do it with buddystore profiles
If profile have some bugs, you can´t fix them by yourself (even if you know how) and must wait to new release
If you want change rotation or something else in buddystore CC (that is not changeable in options) , you can´t do it
More If can be here...
It is like moving from open source (or pay to get source code) to closed source.
Anyway, problem what I see now, is that bought products from store can´t be modified.
If you don´t want mail greens, but sell them, you can´t do it with buddystore profiles
If profile have some bugs, you can´t fix them by yourself (even if you know how) and must wait to new release
If you want change rotation or something else in buddystore CC (that is not changeable in options) , you can´t do it
More If can be here...
It is like moving from open source (or pay to get source code) to closed source.
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since it's free you can always ask the dev to make it open source.
Xcesius
Community Developer
- Joined
- May 1, 2011
- Messages
- 2,050
While I agree with what you are trying to say. I want to say my example :
I've been here since 2011, I started doing simple modifications of certain routines (hello Shadder). Started to learn on how to go from Lua to C#.. As time went on Wulf started CLU (Before that it was Felmaster made Cowdude), I started helping Wulf with Shaman Enhancement (good times), I started learning more and more, until CLU v2 was born. We had many devs working on certain classes, we were not pleased about the speed anymore. As I recall it Storm and Wulf started to-do PureRotation V1, Ama was helping Wulf and Storm with Healing Rotations, Mirabis joined for Druid Healing etc..
During PureRotation V2, We were many devs.. I think it was Weisch,Dagradt,Weisch,Deathshiver,Logic,Lao,Mirabis,Millz,Handnavi,Storm,TreeK,Wulf and Me. (I can't remember them all!)
Some decided to split up and do their own routines based from PR V2's Core, some decided to re-write and add more things for healing etc.
Me and Nomnomnom have been talking since 2012? I started helping Nomnomnom with his first core used for YourBuddy-MoP-BT! (Warrior) I helped him finetune some of the Warrior Rotations..
I decided to make my own Routines so it would be easier to transfer them over to PR V2.. But as time went on, I started doing more and more classes..
Waldo,Bubbleman,Bullseye,Shammy,Xiaolin and Death Vader.. As months went by, Nomnomnom had made a new core..
As such, I decided to convert all my routines into one (Was a really messy job to-do), so YourRaidingBuddy V1 was born to support DeathKnight,Monk,Hunter,Rogue,Shaman and Paladin.
More months went by and Nomnomnom had made a even better core! (Using hooks) -- I was sort of against it to begin with but I managed to pull through with YourRaidingBuddy V2 was born!
I remade the GUI from scratch, I remade most of the class functions to work with hooks etc etc, was a really massive job
As such!
I'm pretty confident we will still be here after years go by, at least for me. Since I have CFS(ME) and cannot work or go to school. So i'm mostly here to Support my Product and help others with theirs.
The thing is most coders learned by using other people's routines etc. as a reference. They were looking how the other coder solved a certain problem or did specific stuff code wise. For example if an open-source CR got a new very good caching system other coders learned about it and were able to enhance their own CR's as well (This is just an example).
The general quality of all CR's was growing because most of the stuff was open source.
With the new store I don't think coders will release their sourcecode anymore. Also because most of the time their Paid / Free project is in the same codebase.
This will make it harder for new coders that plan on writing CR's and not-so-experienced coders can't edit free CR's anymore because there's no way to get the source.
Also what Xcesius explained I don't see this happening in the future anymore due to the store. Like he said there was a codebase (core) released by person X in his CombatRoutine Y, that people were using as a base to build their own CR on. I think people won't even release their core's of the CR's anymore in the future.
Some people already removed the SVN repositories of their free work that was once open-source. So stuff that was once open-source and very good as a reference for new coders is already vanishing from the forums.
I also think the competition between the coders will raise due to the shop.
Same thing goes for plugin / profile / botbase makers.
I think we will see less free / open-source stuff and more paid / closed-source stuff in the future. Well time will tell in which direction this is going.
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