x64 Version of HB

[Stinkbirdcat]

lol then your pc is irrevocably broken. I wont even get into what your possible problem(s) could be. Google some. 64bit gives almost everyone a framerate improvement. If not that than a lateral movement. I have never ever heard of running a 64 bit client affecting performance in a negative fashion, unless you have subpar memory and your pc is page filing like mad or something. anyhow - that has no bearing on the conversation or its outcome tbh.

have you looked at how much of the system 64 bit uses vs 32 bit? the 64 bit does not seem to be more efficient and takes a sizable chuck of memory more than the 32 bit (1 vs 1.5 GB I've seen in the past using Process Lasso). this doesn't prevent my system from running it, but I could see someone running into problems on a smaller system.
look at multiboxers. blizzard has said that it's not an offense to be reported (ignoring the whole follow thing in bg's they did "against bots"), but it seems crazy that you could limit yourself to fewer clients because 64 bit wants to use 50% more RAM during higher stress events.

 

[klepp0906]

have you looked at how much of the system 64 bit uses vs 32 bit? the 64 bit does not seem to be more efficient and takes a sizable chuck of memory more than the 32 bit (1 vs 1.5 GB I've seen in the past using Process Lasso). this doesn't prevent my system from running it, but I could see someone running into problems on a smaller system.
look at multiboxers. blizzard has said that it's not an offense to be reported (ignoring the whole follow thing in bg's they did "against bots"), but it seems crazy that you could limit yourself to fewer clients because 64 bit wants to use 50% more RAM during higher stress events.

hence the portion about sub-par memory (I guess I should have wrote sub-par quantity of memory? but the page-file sentence following should have given that away) Either way. The difference memorywise to run x64 vs x86 is VERY VERY minimal. As in a few hundred mb minimal AT MOST. irrelevant on all but the most old and cheap of pc's. Even then, unless it was sold with an unreasonably low amount, these folks would regain that by simply closing the plethora of junk running in their system tray's and stopping a resource hogging anti V or two =P

Now that I think of it, x86 systems cant even use 4gb of memory which is nearly the standard today. Therefore, theyre getting access to about 3.5gb of that on an x86 setup. By switching to x64 they regain more than they lose . . . .

 

[klepp0906]

but it seems crazy that you could limit yourself to fewer clients because 64 bit wants to use 50% more RAM during higher stress events.

source pls? 50% is ludicrous AT BEST lol. Not trying to be a dick, as im sure you are speaking loosely/making a point, just want to prevent people from being misinformed =)

P.S. Lets not derail this thread. This is an important issue!

 

[foam_follower]

Very important.

 

[Weridoz]

So it's resource problem? I and quite a few of us are willing to pay extra for the x64 client. If everyone throws in 10-20 bucks should make you change your mind.

 

[wearloga]

Sounds like a plan, paying extra for a 64 bit client. I'd be willing to pay up to 30 for it.

 

[buzzerbeater]

yea, its not like they haven't earned millions in revenue from the sales of their product! where could they find the time to do that >.<

Yeah, accurate numbers, since they never spend any money and do not have 4 lawsuits running atm.



OT:

The point made by Hawker in an old thread was the amount of time needed to support TWO Versions of HB was or would be the problem.

If wow goes 64only, HB will too.
But as long as there are real 32bit Users and wow supports 32bit, there isn't much of a chance, which is understandable.
If they really take 32Bit accounts into their "Ban-Window", the HB will step up, but for now, there is not a chance for 64bit since there is no need for it.

 

[killerchick24]

Pretty sure a point was made earlier though that if we continue to run in 32 while WoW is switching to 64 then the 32-bit users will be flagged

I feel 64 might be a bit safer considering it would be 'with the crowd', so to speak.

 

[AtomX]

My question is this, what would the down time be if WoW switched to x64 tomorrow? A week? I doubt it, look at how long it was down for MoP, I would say well over a month, and by that point another bot would step in and take HB's place, I would hate to see that happen.

 

[Weridoz]

I just know that I rather be safe than sorry. If I had to pay alot for it, I certainly would. Like Killerchick24 said, I'd like to be with the "crowd".

 

[s3eedals]

they did the new update!!?

need help please
cuz it doesnt work with me

 

[killerchick24]

they did the new update!!?

need help please
cuz it doesnt work with me

Nope, they are still working on it...

 

[yajinni]

There is no other bot as good as HB in my opinion. But it would give alot of plays anguish over it.
But bliz will NEVER just switch to 64 bit suddenly. They will announce it well in advance and the team will probably have all the time they need to update it to 64 bit.

My question is this, what would the down time be if WoW switched to x64 tomorrow? A week? I doubt it, look at how long it was down for MoP, I would say well over a month, and by that point another bot would step in and take HB's place, I would hate to see that happen.

 

[Zvon]

Yeah, accurate numbers, since they never spend any money and do not have 4 lawsuits running atm.



OT:

The point made by Hawker in an old thread was the amount of time needed to support TWO Versions of HB was or would be the problem.

If wow goes 64only, HB will too.
But as long as there are real 32bit Users and wow supports 32bit, there isn't much of a chance, which is understandable.
If they really take 32Bit accounts into their "Ban-Window", the HB will step up, but for now, there is not a chance for 64bit since there is no need for it.

Why do you think it's still NO NEED on it since Blizzard began to force every 64-bit user to use 64 instead of 32-bit? This is the change to bring up ppl's attention, there MUST be some reasons that Blizzard technical department spent time and money adding these codes and files into the program--banning bot is probably one of them. If HB still just stands there and wait for the real banning coming, it will be too late! There will be tons of botters gets banned and these users might never use HB again. HB just has to be prepared for the 64-bit. It seemed like right now ppl just put hope on "WoW will die when the majority players use 64-bit OS." As for me, I stopped using bot after Blizzard force me to use 64-bit, I can't take the risk for the ban, and I believe there are many people won't either

Also, tbh, why don't just make 2 versions HB, one is for 32-bit, another for 64-bit?

 

[rcadams]

Really your making this more of an issue then it needs to be. 64bit HB isn't needed. Don't try and convince those who are clueless that it is. Scaring them into thinking they will get banned if they don't run 64bit wow is complete garbage.. Geez

 

[chinajade]

Also, tbh, why don't just make 2 versions HB, one is for 32-bit, another for 64-bit?

Hi, Zvon,

This is a fair question, and the answer is not obvious to non-developers.

Making a 32-bit and 64-bit version of Honorbuddy would literally double the resources needed to make repairs to Honorbuddy, and double the length of time we are down on 'patch days'. This happens because:

• Offsets for 32-bit and 64-bit versions will never be the same.
  
  
• It would be quite easy for Bliz to slip anti-bot code into one version, but not the other one.
  Thus, we need to reverse engineer and conduct full analysis for anti-bot machinery in both executables, and all their associated DLLs.
  
  
• The compiler configurations will be different, so two sets of pattern catalogues would need to be maintained
  
  
• Structure of 32-bit and 64-bit data may be different.
  With a larger scalar data structure, alternative and much more efficient algorithms may be employed. This was proven by the Plan9 operating system almost 25 years ago. So, its possible the 32-bit and 64-bit WoWclients could be significantly different structurally.
  
  
• Its possible Honorbuddy would need different implementations for one function.
  This again is due to differences between 32-bit and 64-bit implementations.
  
  
• etc.

Probably the most devastating thing in supporting 32-bit and 64-bit versions...
it doubles the amount of testing.

To "do it right", a 32-bit and 64-bit version of Honorbuddy would effectively need to be treated as two separate bots. BosslandGmbH is a small company, and development staff resources are very limited. Supporting both versions would stretch the already heavily-loaded staff.

This would also explain Bliz's push to move to 64-bit. They want the more efficient algorithms, and would like to dismiss some of their development staff when maintenance of two versions is no longer necessary. The push to 64-bit is an economic decision, trying to increase the 'bottom line' in a tight economy. Recall, that they have lost several million players from their revenue stream in the last year.

cheers,
chinajade

 

[HB4107H29]

Well it seems that now we can expect some bans, since they are forcing 64 bit version and only the ones botting will use 32 bit.

 

[Zvon]

Really your making this more of an issue then it needs to be. 64bit HB isn't needed. Don't try and convince those who are clueless that it is. Scaring them into thinking they will get banned if they don't run 64bit wow is complete garbage.. Geez

I never say "they will get banned if they don't run 64bit wow", but I said if I were u, I won't even take the risk for the ban when Blizzard just find a better way to distinguish the botters and regular players

 

[subrand0m]

Hi, Zvon,

This is a fair question, and the answer is not obvious to non-developers.

Making a 32-bit and 64-bit version of Honorbuddy would literally double the resources needed to make repairs to Honorbuddy, and double the length of time we are down on 'patch days'. This happens because:

• Offsets for 32-bit and 64-bit versions will never be the same.
  
  
• It would be quite easy for Bliz to slip anti-bot code into one version, but not the other one.
  Thus, we need to reverse engineer and conduct full analysis for anti-bot machinery in both executables, and all their associated DLLs.
  
  
• The compiler configurations will be different, so two sets of pattern catalogues would need to be maintained
  
  
• Structure of 32-bit and 64-bit data may be different.
  With a larger scalar data structure, alternative and much more efficient algorithms may be employed. This was proven by the Plan9 operating system almost 25 years ago. So, its possible the 32-bit and 64-bit WoWclients could be significantly different structurally.
  
  
• Its possible Honorbuddy would need different implementations for one function.
  This again is due to differences between 32-bit and 64-bit implementations.
  
  
• etc.

Probably the most devastating thing in supporting 32-bit and 64-bit versions...
it doubles the amount of testing.

To "do it right", a 32-bit and 64-bit version of Honorbuddy would effectively need to be treated as two separate bots. BosslandGmbH is a small company, and development staff resources are very limited. Supporting both versions would stretch the already heavily-loaded staff.

This would also explain Bliz's push to move to 64-bit. They want the more efficient algorithms, and would like to dismiss some of their development staff when maintenance of two versions is no longer necessary. The push to 64-bit is an economic decision, trying to increase the 'bottom line' in a tight economy. Recall, that they have lost several million players from their revenue stream in the last year.

cheers,
chinajade

Now I understand that the company is not huge, but at the same time why do you care so much about 32bit?

Honestly I am willing to bet 90% of the users here are 64bit users or have the means to use the 64bit option. ( If you are still on windows XP I feel sorry for you son, but I you got 99 problems, and your CPU be one ) Honestly I never got why a " Bot " would force 32 bit.

 

[chinajade]

Well it seems that now we can expect some bans, since they are forcing 64 bit version and only the ones botting will use 32 bit.

This is utter nonsense. Considering Windows XP is still 33% of the market (as of Aug-2013), and practically speaking it is ONLY 32-bit.

• Yes, we know of the 64-bit version of Windoze XP.
  But its usage statistics are insigificant.
  
  
• Yes, we know the 'general' number probably does not accurately represent the 'gaming community'.
  But its gives a solid indication that the 32-bit market is far far from dead.

Please stop such nonsensical fear mongering. Consider this a warning.

but at the same time why do you care so much about 32bit?

Its very simple... 32-bit works on all Windoze platforms, 64-bit does not. If we only have the staff to support one distribution, its going to be the one with the largest audience.


cheers,
chinajade