TuanHA Death Knight- The Ultimate Experience

[mellome]

Haggy...

A log file is an actual file attachment, not an excerpt of what the problem may be. You may wish to consider actually posting a log file in order to receive the adequate support desired.

 

[Haggy223]

Mellome....

we let TuanHA decide. He's knows that I'm pretty accurate with me descriptions. At least with all the other reports it worked out fine.
But nevertheless, thanks for your recommendation.

Haggy

 

[mellome]

No worries mate, no insult was intended. Good luck.

 

[Reflex11]

Spoke with 2 multi glad DKs (learning the class myself still, didn't have this feedback before) today and recorded 30 games on recount, noticed way too few Icy Touchs (15). With glyph (which everyone uses because its amazing), Icy Touch becomes a core spell as it also dispels. Moreso, it can be used to turn frost runes into death runes which = more necrotics which = more pressure in pvp. So, typically you want to open Plague Strike (ebon plaguebringer passive buff makes this strong in 5.2), dump blood runes into Blood Boils (roiling blood makes this amazing now) and dump frost runes into Icy Touchs (dmg+dispell+frost fever) - so, out of the gate, you've dispelled your target, stacked diseases hard, and will proc 4 death runes when they recharge. By then, your runic power will be looking good, so you can then immediately dump 4 necrotics, spam death coils and cast Outbreak (during necrotics/coils disease stacks will come off and we've saved Outbreak, which uses no runes, to reapply diseases).

Yes it takes fester off the table, but necrotics really are THAT good in PvP - you'd think we lose some single target pressure by ignoring Festers but necrotics are so strong that death runes are much more important and we've just spammed our diseases everywhere. So, what I would suggest is a fairly simple rotation logic:

1+ Frost runes = Icy Touch (1+ target in range, can add logic where we cast this on someone else besides target not only to dispel but to add frost fever to someone who doesnt have it but they main point is to turn frost runes into deaths. also, if there's nothing to dispell, casting icy veins would be better in general as it applies snare or root as well as frost fever - would be ideal but also frankly 'extra')

Edit: Just want to make the frost rune bit more clear: I believe you're already using dispel logic and reading auras, I think. So by removing fester, we should easily get the cr to use frost runes for more dispels. Added perhaps should be: if theres nothing to dispel, then cast icy veins (though veins does less damage, the snare or root + frost fever is more useful in PvP unless target has dispellable buff)

1+ Blood runes = Blood Boil (Roiling Blood) (if 1+ target in range with 1+ disease - Icy Touch spam with frost runes should ensure this)
4+ Death Runes = dump necrotics/spam coil/outbreak (huge amount of single target pressure, necrotics have no CD!)

1+ Unholy Runes = if target has no disease, then Plague Strike
if target has disease, then Scourge Strike

So, In a perfect world our use of runes looks like, from the gate: Scourge on first in range (applies plague and frost fever to melee target) + Icy Touch on other + Icy Touch on other (prioritize spreading disease but if all enemies in range have Frost Fever then use it to dispel) + Blood Boil spam (we've spread frost fever everywhere nearby and put both on our target with scourge, now we spam Roiling Blood and it procs Pestilence+Blood Boil damage). Reaping passive will cause each Icy Touch and Blood Boil to proc Death Runes -> Dump death runes at 4+ with necrotic strikes, peppering in coils and using Outbreak to keep diseases up while spamming necrotics. By the time Outbreak wears off, we will have regained frost and blood runes and rinse/repeat. 100% uptime of diseases on our target + dispels/frost fever on others + Roiling Blood procing Pestilence + unreal pressure with chaining 4+ necrotics. Still using Coils when we have too much Runic Power

- May have to give Icy Touch similar targeting logic as interrupts, where it casts to focus and on our target - so user sets focus as ranged, bot uses our 2 frost runes to Icy Touch target and Icy Touch Focus (most likely the best way to code this)

This is essentially the thought processes for high rated arena DKs at the moment; just do everything you can to get death runes for necrotics while keeping diseases up. Played this manually a few times, and though obviously I sucked much more at interrupts/dark sim/cc I could definitely tell my pressure was much higher (not only does necrotic absorb incoming heals on your target but it also slows cast speed of players, it really is humongous for pvp).

Anyways, I believe the bot is already attempting to read rune counts - should hopefully be a pretty straightforward way to make Arena and BG rotation logic more similar to how top DKs play the class. So for pvp it should really be following this logic all of the time and for Burst mode (i've mentioned this before) to just recognize trinket/buff procs and cast self buffs/use gloves/use trinket and then summon gargoyle OR simply read enemy hp and do the same but without waiting for procs - though honestly, stacking everything with your strength procs really makes your Gargoyle ridiculous).

Just some feedback that I think would really make the CR an absolute monster in PvP - I tried fiddling with it myself but just wound up breaking it haha

Edit: Just remembered - also logic for Icy Veins peels similar to death grip - i.e. if friendly player below X HP, icy veins melee enemy would be huge for PvP as it's also a very useful way to peel for your teammates when getting trained by melees.

Edit: A bit more behind the suggestion: I found myself in fairly high arenas constantly spamming my Necrotic Strike key because I didn't want the bot to use death runes for anything else. If it were to camp deaths and spam necros at 4+, it also affords me the ability to use runes for peels or something else (because its not using deaths for stuff like plagues/scourge/festers. It's also totally fine to use logic where even if 1+ death rune then necrotic strike but saving up and then dumping multiple necros in a row is really brutal for opposing healers/casters so - if its easier to code for ONLY using deaths for necrotics rather then waiting to pool them up to 4+ that would also be useful, but slightly less optimal for PvP. Optimally, the Necrotic Stack logic would include recognizing 4+ death runes, turning on Necrotic Stack mode where we are going Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil (as many coils as runic permits) + Outbreak on our target when diseases are gone - now we're stacking necros, spamming coil damage, and keeping diseases on our target with Outbreak until blood/frost runes regen so we can then again reapply diseases with bb/touch/vein and reproc deaths)

- It may prove better to wait for a target health trigger and then dump as many necros as it can while never using death runes otherwise (that way its not waiting forever for 4 if we wind up with 2 or 3 death runes and we can freely use death runes for peels (icy veins on demand or emergency blood boils - say suddenly their whole team is near us and some targets dont have diseases). Hard to say which will be better while botting but probably best to employ whichever sounds easier to code. This idea would be essentially similar to something I've alluded to earlier in regards to Burst Mode, where I currently attempt to force it on pretty much all the time by setting it to recognize enemy hp under 100%, so an option to select what procs Necrotic Dump may also be useful, but I'd personally have it going constantly (you really don't want to be using death runes for anything besides necros unless you really need to).

Okay, going to attempt a TL;DR and summarize things:

Suggestions:

1) Burst Mode = SelfBuffs/Trinkets/Gloves then Summon Gargoyle

2) Necrotic/Coil/Outbreak dump

When enabled, triggers Necrotic Strike/Coil spam (coils while necrotic on cd) + Outbreak when diseases wear off when 4+ Death Runes available (disallows use of Death Runes by other strikes/spells unless cast by user or special cases: Cast Icy Veins when Friendly under X HP on Melee Enemy, Cast Blood Boil when 2+ Enemies nearby with 1 disease, Soul Reaper, Dark Transformation

When less than 4 Death Runes - Use Unholy/Frost/Blood runes as detailed above

Promotes a lot more death runes (Using Icy Touch more often, save Icy Veins for peels or user cast since it doesnt proc a Death Rune), thus adding a lot of single target pressure in PvP and keeps diseases up constantly on our target by saving Outbreak for during necrotic spam. Roiling Blood makes spamming Blood Boil optimal even on 1 target (Pestilence is garbage now unless you're running something other than Roiling Blood) and Blood Tap will get you 4+ Death Runes more often than you may think.

- Yes, it would make more sense to Festering Strike when you having no reason to add diseases and nothing to dispel. It would make sense to add this logic for festers, but having these 2 conditions occur at the same time really doesn't happen all that often in PvP, I can promise you wouldn't even miss it. Spamming Necros all at once is insane because its 4+x 150% weap dmg strikes w/ no CD + absorbs 100%*AP incoming heals + slows cast speed by 25% - picture yourself training a healer, chaining necrotics and coils (for extra damage) all while absorbing the heals hes putting on himself + slower cast speed during entirety of the burst + 100% uptime on diseases. It looks worse over 5 minutes on a dummie, but its significantly harder to deal with in actual PvP (practicing necrotic spam on dummy spikes real time DPS to 80-100k and then of course slows in between each necrotic dump, but the real kicker is the dummie isn't counting for the damage done in absorbed heals

 

[tuanha]

Let me consume this slowly into code Reflex11,

Big thank

 

[sogenius]

Spoke with 2 multi glad DKs (learning the class myself still, didn't have this feedback before) today and recorded 30 games on recount, noticed way too few Icy Touchs (15). With glyph (which everyone uses because its amazing), Icy Touch becomes a core spell as it also dispels. Moreso, it can be used to turn frost runes into death runes which = more necrotics which = more pressure in pvp. So, typically you want to open Plague Strike (ebon plaguebringer passive buff makes this strong in 5.2), dump blood runes into Blood Boils (roiling blood makes this amazing now) and dump frost runes into Icy Touchs (dmg+dispell+frost fever) - so, out of the gate, you've dispelled your target, stacked diseases hard, and will proc 4 death runes when they recharge. By then, your runic power will be looking good, so you can then immediately dump 4 necrotics, spam death coils and cast Outbreak (during necrotics/coils disease stacks will come off and we've saved Outbreak, which uses no runes, to reapply diseases).

Yes it takes fester off the table, but necrotics really are THAT good in PvP - you'd think we lose some single target pressure by ignoring Festers but necrotics are so strong that death runes are much more important and we've just spammed our diseases everywhere. So, what I would suggest is a fairly simple rotation logic:

1+ Frost runes = Icy Touch (1+ target in range, can add logic where we cast this on someone else besides target not only to dispel but to add frost fever to someone who doesnt have it but they main point is to turn frost runes into deaths. also, if there's nothing to dispell, casting icy veins would be better in general as it applies snare or root as well as frost fever - would be ideal but also frankly 'extra')

Edit: Just want to make the frost rune bit more clear: I believe you're already using dispel logic and reading auras, I think. So by removing fester, we should easily get the cr to use frost runes for more dispels. Added perhaps should be: if theres nothing to dispel, then cast icy veins (though veins does less damage, the snare or root + frost fever is more useful in PvP unless target has dispellable buff)

1+ Blood runes = Blood Boil (Roiling Blood) (if 1+ target in range with 1+ disease - Icy Touch spam with frost runes should ensure this)
4+ Death Runes = dump necrotics/spam coil/outbreak (huge amount of single target pressure, necrotics have no CD!)

1+ Unholy Runes = if target has no disease, then Plague Strike
if target has disease, then Scourge Strike

So, In a perfect world our use of runes looks like, from the gate: Scourge on first in range (applies plague and frost fever to melee target) + Icy Touch on other + Icy Touch on other (prioritize spreading disease but if all enemies in range have Frost Fever then use it to dispel) + Blood Boil spam (we've spread frost fever everywhere nearby and put both on our target with scourge, now we spam Roiling Blood and it procs Pestilence+Blood Boil damage). Reaping passive will cause each Icy Touch and Blood Boil to proc Death Runes -> Dump death runes at 4+ with necrotic strikes, peppering in coils and using Outbreak to keep diseases up while spamming necrotics. By the time Outbreak wears off, we will have regained frost and blood runes and rinse/repeat. 100% uptime of diseases on our target + dispels/frost fever on others + Roiling Blood procing Pestilence + unreal pressure with chaining 4+ necrotics. Still using Coils when we have too much Runic Power

- May have to give Icy Touch similar targeting logic as interrupts, where it casts to focus and on our target - so user sets focus as ranged, bot uses our 2 frost runes to Icy Touch target and Icy Touch Focus (most likely the best way to code this)

This is essentially the thought processes for high rated arena DKs at the moment; just do everything you can to get death runes for necrotics while keeping diseases up. Played this manually a few times, and though obviously I sucked much more at interrupts/dark sim/cc I could definitely tell my pressure was much higher (not only does necrotic absorb incoming heals on your target but it also slows cast speed of players, it really is humongous for pvp).

Anyways, I believe the bot is already attempting to read rune counts - should hopefully be a pretty straightforward way to make Arena and BG rotation logic more similar to how top DKs play the class. So for pvp it should really be following this logic all of the time and for Burst mode (i've mentioned this before) to just recognize trinket/buff procs and cast self buffs/use gloves/use trinket and then summon gargoyle OR simply read enemy hp and do the same but without waiting for procs - though honestly, stacking everything with your strength procs really makes your Gargoyle ridiculous).

Just some feedback that I think would really make the CR an absolute monster in PvP - I tried fiddling with it myself but just wound up breaking it haha

Edit: Just remembered - also logic for Icy Veins peels similar to death grip - i.e. if friendly player below X HP, icy veins melee enemy would be huge for PvP as it's also a very useful way to peel for your teammates when getting trained by melees.

Edit: A bit more behind the suggestion: I found myself in fairly high arenas constantly spamming my Necrotic Strike key because I didn't want the bot to use death runes for anything else. If it were to camp deaths and spam necros at 4+, it also affords me the ability to use runes for peels or something else (because its not using deaths for stuff like plagues/scourge/festers. It's also totally fine to use logic where even if 1+ death rune then necrotic strike but saving up and then dumping multiple necros in a row is really brutal for opposing healers/casters so - if its easier to code for ONLY using deaths for necrotics rather then waiting to pool them up to 4+ that would also be useful, but slightly less optimal for PvP. Optimally, the Necrotic Stack logic would include recognizing 4+ death runes, turning on Necrotic Stack mode where we are going Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil, Necro, Coil (as many coils as runic permits) + Outbreak on our target when diseases are gone - now we're stacking necros, spamming coil damage, and keeping diseases on our target with Outbreak until blood/frost runes regen so we can then again reapply diseases with bb/touch/vein and reproc deaths)

- It may prove better to wait for a target health trigger and then dump as many necros as it can while never using death runes otherwise (that way its not waiting forever for 4 if we wind up with 2 or 3 death runes and we can freely use death runes for peels (icy veins on demand or emergency blood boils - say suddenly their whole team is near us and some targets dont have diseases). Hard to say which will be better while botting but probably best to employ whichever sounds easier to code. This idea would be essentially similar to something I've alluded to earlier in regards to Burst Mode, where I currently attempt to force it on pretty much all the time by setting it to recognize enemy hp under 100%, so an option to select what procs Necrotic Dump may also be useful, but I'd personally have it going constantly (you really don't want to be using death runes for anything besides necros unless you really need to).

Okay, going to attempt a TL;DR and summarize things:

Suggestions:

1) Burst Mode = SelfBuffs/Trinkets/Gloves then Summon Gargoyle

2) Necrotic/Coil/Outbreak dump

When enabled, triggers Necrotic Strike/Coil spam (coils while necrotic on cd) + Outbreak when diseases wear off when 4+ Death Runes available (disallows use of Death Runes by other strikes/spells unless cast by user or special cases: Cast Icy Veins when Friendly under X HP on Melee Enemy, Cast Blood Boil when 2+ Enemies nearby with 1 disease, Soul Reaper, Dark Transformation

When less than 4 Death Runes - Use Unholy/Frost/Blood runes as detailed above

Promotes a lot more death runes (Using Icy Touch more often, save Icy Veins for peels or user cast since it doesnt proc a Death Rune), thus adding a lot of single target pressure in PvP and keeps diseases up constantly on our target by saving Outbreak for during necrotic spam. Roiling Blood makes spamming Blood Boil optimal even on 1 target (Pestilence is garbage now unless you're running something other than Roiling Blood) and Blood Tap will get you 4+ Death Runes more often than you may think.

- Yes, it would make more sense to Festering Strike when you having no reason to add diseases and nothing to dispel. It would make sense to add this logic for festers, but having these 2 conditions occur at the same time really doesn't happen all that often in PvP, I can promise you wouldn't even miss it. Spamming Necros all at once is insane because its 4+x 150% weap dmg strikes w/ no CD + absorbs 100%*AP incoming heals + slows cast speed by 25% - picture yourself training a healer, chaining necrotics and coils (for extra damage) all while absorbing the heals hes putting on himself + slower cast speed during entirety of the burst + 100% uptime on diseases. It looks worse over 5 minutes on a dummie, but its significantly harder to deal with in actual PvP (practicing necrotic spam on dummy spikes real time DPS to 80-100k and then of course slows in between each necrotic dump, but the real kicker is the dummie isn't counting for the damage done in absorbed heals

I approve this message.

2.2k Rated DK

I find myself manually having to put more necro strikes than the bot can do for me and with the glyph as well (for icy touch) dispelling manually.

Icy Touch is OP now
Necro Strike needs to be #1 Priority.

Why?
- Double DPS teams will LOL DIE from pressure inability to heal.
- Healer on healing comps will fold under pressure as blood boil is spreading everything to everyone and their mothers.

And If I noticed correctly, the bot is also casting unholy frenzy on my Gargoyal without me having to do it manually sometimes
This is good!

Like always amazing CR, Amazing Coder

 

[jyoung1985]

@Tuanha - Amazing custom Class...thank you so much for all of your hard work here.

@Reflex11 - Great post man. Thanks for the input. Hopefully we can get it into the custom class. I actually learned alot for my own playing.

 

[Impunity]

I gotta say I like Unholy more then Frost now! I just stay Blood presence most of the time and rape face lol. I've been hearing they are planning to nerf unholy using blood presence on PTR though

Anyways amazing CC! between this one and the Holy pally one you are really making me love pvping again. thanks Tuanha

 

[Reflex11]

I gotta say I like Unholy more then Frost now! I just stay Blood presence most of the time and rape face lol. I've been hearing they are planning to nerf unholy using blood presence on PTR though

Anyways amazing CC! between this one and the Holy pally one you are really making me love pvping again. thanks Tuanha

Haha yep - the change is to your free death coil procs, you can no longer get them in blood pres (on PTR). Honestly, it's a pretty appropriate change; not over the top and its not going to nerf dks into the ground. Likely, presence glyph (lets you retain 70% runic power when switching presence) and allowing auto presence as something like 50% hp will be the way to go next patch

 

[kfect]

hey dude, any reason why the cc is not dumping RP with frost strike while raid spec is active ?

 

[Hardcano]

I'm really impressed by this CR. Tuanha great job! Will we ever see a rogue CR?

 

[tuanha]

New update, increase performance, well HUGE INCREASE PERFORMANCE thank Worklifebalance.

I got a new priest and we on killing rampage 10-0 right now crush all 1800 rating team in 2v2

You guy should try out new rev. it definitively lovely.

Final score before priest G2G, we got 14-3, last win vs a RDruid and Rogue team at 1815 rating. Damn, my gear level only 478 and I badly need a weapon which only available next 2 week

 

[bulroth]

Hi Tuanha,

the DK CC works great, great work! Thank you!

Last version is Revision 175?

 

[jggaall99]

thanks for the unholy dk tuanha I'm digging it. can you post what set up you are using in 2v2 as far as talent and glyph's goes

 

[tuanha]

Hi Tuanha,

the DK CC works great, great work! Thank you!

Last version is Revision 175?

This is my armory: Anonymous Level 90 Human Death Knight Profile | MaskedArmory.com

Proud to be one of the worst gear to get to 1800 2v2 bracket

Newest revision of public release is 175
Newest revision of special edition is 157

Setting: TuanHA Death Knight Unholy PvP.xml in User Settings Folder. (Everything is on Auto, except the Auto Presence)

Talent:
[Roiling Blood] [Lichborne] [Asphyxiate] [Conversion] [Blood Tap] [Remorseless Winter]
----------------------------------
Glyph:
[Glyph of the Geist - 58640] [Glyph of Dark Simulacrum - 63331] [Glyph of Resilient Grip - 59309] [Glyph of Death and Decay - 58629] [Glyph of Death's Embrace - 58677] [Glyph of Icy Touch - 58631]

I change talent depend on enemy team as explained a few page back. But this is what I use the most.

 

[kreljo555]

is there a way as unholy in pvp that it uses deathcoils above 50 RP automatically, i think its above 80 RP atm



tried this in a rbg just now and it was not keeping the dots up or spreading them RP was capping all the time at 100 and i dunno if its supposed to raise my pet after it dies or not but it didnt

 

[thatwouldbestealing]

Obliterate not being cast

Dear DKs, TuanHA

Does this CC (Special Edition) intentionally not cast Obliterate ?

• 10 Minutes test: Raiders Dummy, 2H Frost
• Combat Bot (63,021), Raid Bot (67,578) and Tyrael (64,882) each tested
• Masked Armoury
• TuanHA DK (Special Edition), Revision 155
• 'Raid Settings' and 'Full AFK' were each tested
• In all parses Obliterate was not cast even once

I have a concern that the rotation is not complete without Obliterate and is causing significantly lower DPS as a result (item level 481). Can someone please confirm this or comment ?

Thanks in advance

PS -I understand that there is a newer Revision (157), and I will edit the post if #157 provides any different findings.

 

[tuanha]

Without a log, I can't say what wrong.

My guess is CR use all available rune for Necrotic Strike that the main reason there's not enough rune for Obliterate.

 

[Reflex11]

Definitely running a lot smoother by the way - I can't wait for the combat update

 

[cameronmc88]

Definitely running a lot smoother by the way - I can't wait for the combat update

Which update man?