[Store] Does FREE really mean FREE?

[hazard]

Please can main DEVS take a look at some of the so called FREE products on the store. You will find some (I will not mention names) are never updated or have so many features locked it is pointless. It is very clear that the free products are merrily there to divert sales to a third party website and avoid the HB charges.

Edit: This topic was not created to name and shame developers. It is a mature discussion regarding the usage of the Store. As Studio60 states the free products are using resources (memory/bandwidth) from the Store server which is possibly the reason why the charge is moving up to 40%. These free products in turn produce a number of sales in which the developer is using resources and keeping 100%? HB is a business at the end of the day and this should be looked at from a business point of view. Hopefully with less load on the server we might see the fee drop to 35% however this is for another day and another discussion.

 

[Studio60]

It is very well known that a few sellers use free products on the store to generate sales off-shop. I am personally not a big fan of this procedure and frankly not even sure why this is allowed. Especially with some community developer's products I can't see the gain Bossland has by placing free products on the store that are basically only anchor products and generate no additional revenue. I might be missing a point here, but right now this is my impression.

Apart from that I am open for discussion. There are products on the store that come in multiple versions. I use the free compendium from BrodieMan and even though it could be considered a demo of the full product, I get use out of it at times. Otherwise I would not have added it to my collection. Then there are different paid editions like with Garrisonbutler Lite and Ice. It is hard to find a place where to draw the line.

Maybe there even is a bit jealousy involved that people hook customers with free products and then convert them to paying customers without having to pay 30%/40% to Bossland. Personally In some cases it is pretty obvious what's happening and if it were my store, I would simply cancel my agreement if there is no gain for me as shop owner. That is just good business.

 

[tolraucion]

I don't personally understand the pull of "free" or "lite" versions of products. Using a free product to evaluate and then upgrade to a paid version just sounds like an extended trial to me. I know that, as a user, purchasing a lite version of something only to be unable to upgrade to the full version gives me a huge amount of buyer's remorse. This in-turn makes me apprehensive to purchase in the future. Along with this, as a developer, I adhere very strictly to the "no advertising" policy. This puts me at a disadvantage to those that can use free products to advertise their paid ones, or even those that are third party.

My opinion of what to do is this: If we plan to maintain the buddystore as a developer community, then all free products that are meant to push people to third party sales should be removed. Likewise, giving out free versions as trials doesn't make much sense to me, and I'd rather see that functionality moved into a better trial system (maybe hours used or something like that).

The store is very bloated and I'd love to see this change to a much smaller number of products that are higher quality.

 

[Inrego]

I think Bossland said the raise of fee to 40% is because "we're now also part of the legal battle" and therefore have to support it with more money.

EDIT: I misunderstood his posts in the skype channel. The reason(s) are clearly stated in the letter we all received. Basicly, due to lots of chargebacks and refunds.

 

[Aion]

Since this topic is getting derailed from the direction, followed by the OP, lets get on topic.

It is regarding these FREE products, which do obviously advertise 3rd party PAID products, not present on the BuddyStore within themselves, including but not limited to:

- Advertizing Out-Of-BuddyStore 3rd party web pages, which are direct portals for selling the PAID products.

- Redirecting the customers of the FREE products for support and installation instructuions on the 3rd party web pages above.

Peace out!

 

[bossland]

Free really means FREE, i do not want to see any FREE products with In App additions, if there are any, report them to us.

It is very well known that a few sellers use free products on the store to generate sales off-shop.

Not to me, i will have a talk with the approval staff about that.

 

[SnowCrash]

Hi all,

The way I look at developing a "Free" version compared to a "Paid" version is this: The free version should work without locking necessary behavior out to only the paid version. The paid versions should be the icing on the cake, the extra pizazz or special functionality that is either unique or special. Those who want to support me, will, and that premium version is there for them. Furthermore, I treat support equally for free or paid products.

Again, completely my opinion and just my particular approach at the moment.

Best,
Snow

 

[frosticus]

im watching and reading. ive purchased free, trial and paid versions of a couple different items.

it would be nice to have a better definition of what constitutes free, trial, and paid. along with stricter policing of the advertising and linking in free items.

one example of what i would suggest to developers to help separate the categories is to remove visual cues of paid products from free versions.
if i buy a free version of something, i want it to work as a stand alone version of the paid. not a half grayed out version with half the features showing but not usable. it takes up space and i suppose bandwidth streaming all that extra code if its not being used. just take it out, give us a stand alone 'hey, this just works' version for free.

correct me on the difficulty, let me know if its just not doable, but...
take your trial, put a timer on it, say hours used, like suggested above. and when the timer is used up, it reverts to the crappy half grayed out version that we are offered for free.

im rambling now but even if you take just one tiny suggestion and add it to others suggestions, we might be able to reach a solution both developers and staff can agree upon.

 

[Aion]

im watching and reading. ive purchased free, trial and paid versions of a couple different items.

it would be nice to have a better definition of what constitutes free, trial, and paid. along with stricter policing of the advertising and linking in free items.

one example of what i would suggest to developers to help separate the categories is to remove visual cues of paid products from free versions.
if i buy a free version of something, i want it to work as a stand alone version of the paid. not a half grayed out version with half the features showing but not usable. it takes up space and i suppose bandwidth streaming all that extra code if its not being used. just take it out, give us a stand alone 'hey, this just works' version for free.

correct me on the difficulty, let me know if its just not doable, but...
take your trial, put a timer on it, say hours used, like suggested above. and when the timer is used up, it reverts to the crappy half grayed out version that we are offered for free.

im rambling now but even if you take just one tiny suggestion and add it to others suggestions, we might be able to reach a solution both developers and staff can agree upon.

Yea, the Free/Trial/Paid definitions is good to have some more love, but the topic here is regarding FREE products on the store, which obvious purpose is to tank the PAID products outside BuddyStore!

 

[hazard]

Yea, the Free/Trial/Paid definitions is good to have some more love, but the topic here is regarding FREE products on the store, which obvious purpose is to tank the PAID products outside BuddyStore!

Agreed. Some people are missing the point that FREE products should be 100% FREE with no locked features. Loading a FREE routine just to find it has a tone of locked features forcing you to purchase and upgrade should not be aloud in my opinion.

 

[jimmy06]

You may not impose a limitation system in to a product so your suggestion is not feasible.

 

[hazard]

You may not impose a limitation system in to a product so your suggestion is not feasible.

This is our point jimmy06, the fact that there are some FREE rotations with limitation system in place forcing users to purchase the unlocked version.

 

[chinajade]

Hi, all,

We've added to the Wiki with respect to Bossland's wishes by adding the following section:

Products that abuse the Customer​

If any wording needs further sharpening, please let us know.

cheers,
chinajade

 

[Aion]

• Products soliciting or facilitating 'donations' will not be accepted.

Does that means the donation links in FREE (or PAID) products are not allowed anymore?

• 'Useless' products will not be accepted.

The Buddy Store Management is the sole arbiter of whether or not a product is useful.

Is it possible to name examples of "Useless" products from your POV? If we have such on the Buddy Store currently?

 

[Giwin]

Does that means the donation links in FREE (or PAID) products are not allowed anymore?

Donations are not allowed in paid products, it was never explained why but I think it's connected to multiple things such as donations from paid products would still require to be taxed and a lot of people wouldn't declare it and the price of products would be lowered because of generous donations none of which goes to the store which means less revenue for them.

Is it possible to name examples of "Useless" products from your POV? If we have such on the Buddy Store currently?

I think this will be a decision based on common sense, I think it's just a way to stop the store being flood with low value products due to the recent changes to the buddy store which would devalue the store.

 

[hazard]

Thank you Chinajade, however after updating the rules regarding so called FREE products with loads of features locked a version of Paws (Druid) routine was approved on the store with... a tone of features locked on the free version? How are these being approved?

• No free editions of paid products are allowed.

"Free means Free"[SUP][1][/SUP]—it can not be limited. Neither should a free product show you the limitations it has, and solicit purchase of a feature-enabled version.

 

[SnowCrash]

Thank you Chinajade, however after updating the rules regarding so called FREE products with loads of features locked a version of Paws (Druid) routine was approved on the store with... a tone of features locked on the free version? How are these being approved?

I'm actually curious about this, myself (although, I wouldn't say that there are a TON of features - just one, actually).

For example, the "Free" version of Paws does not show anything that the paid version would have unlocked, it is a complete CR "without limitation", it does not have anything grayed out (the premium features are simply just not there in the free version), nor does it advertise anywhere that a certain feature can be accessed if you buy the "Premium" version.

I'd like to know where the line is drawn, or how the decision is made? If this is a matter of simply changing the names of the two products to keep one free for the community to distinguish the difference of products - is that all that needs to be done?

Honestly, from a product maintenance standpoint, I'd probably just extend the trial of the paid version and remove the free one - but there are many users of the "free" one now, and that would impact them.

Snow

 

[hazard]

Honestly, from a product maintenance standpoint, I'd probably just extend the trial of the paid version and remove the free one - but there are many users of the "free" one now, and that would impact them.

Agreed. A free version is just a trial version in which we already have a system for that.

 

[SnowCrash]

I see your point, but I disagree that some free versions are just trials for the paid simply for the fact that good free versions can be used indefinitely without forcing to buy nor being reminded that the version they use is just a crappy afterthought to get users. From a marketing stance, it sparks a great base of trust with your users and, more importantly, your brand. Personally, I went out of my way to ensure that there were good features and plenty of functionality that existed in the free version. The paid version was more of an attempt to cater to users that desired more advanced or dynamic functionality that is not required for general play at all.

So the real question is, how do we determine the functionality and understand the (subjective) rules?

 

[bossland]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Aion - Asking for donations, you can do on your forum thread. I am not sure that you will get enough to even buy a beer. And besides, there is nothing like donations except you are a registered charity, which i assume you are not.


[/FONT]