So what... no bans yet after the Warden update?

[wajke]

wajke....what are you saying? Do you actually believe Blizz would warn Bossland of a Warden change? To what end? What game plan?

Tripwire does not directly detect that Warden is scanning part of Honorbuddy. Tripwire looks for new scans or changes within Warden period. When it finds it, it shuts the system down in an effort to protect botters and allow HB time to review the matter.

This part is an assumption by me but I say this in seeing how things have happened in the pass. Tripwire activated and HB did a short analysist and determine this is not a out and out detection and botters could move forward, however there is something new being done that bothers them and increases the chances of someone being caught and hence the warning. The 30 days they speak of I believe is for them to properly analyze the problem and determine the way forward. This could mean a partial or even major rewrite of bot to avoid detection because they can see where Blizz is going with the recent update and maybe this has been a fear they have had now realised.

I make this assumption based on previous HB experiences. Normally when there is a decent change to the Warden or Blizz coding there is downtime of about 4 to 7 days depending on how serious the matter is. Them saying 30 days means this could be major. Them opening the servers back up tells me its not out and out detection but something that makes it easier for them to detect bot in general.

Generally when Blizz attacks they target basically a specific bot but it also can catch other bots also. This update seems to be tagetting HB but we may hear of other bots being hit also.

But NO. Blizz would in my opinion NEVER EVER tell HB what's coming. That would defeat the purpose of doing it as their goal is to hit as many accounts as possible. And doing it before WoD is brilliant because many more will rejoin because they want to get WoD and have to buy all their expansions again. So the way they see it is 50/50. Yes they will loose some botters who will pack up and not come back but this maybe offset by others rebuying all those previous expansions along with new people joining up.

By all means explain to me why there's a post then from Honorbuddy staff (announcements section) saying they can't give away the changed info or talk about what has changed for the next upcoming 30 days when that post was made and that they know this was a HB-targeted editing in Warden? Blizzard might not have told them, but what keeps Honorbuddy Staff from talking about the Warden changes then, hmm? I mean, warn us more than they have, maybe not down to the code-detail but more hints. Yes, Blizzard will probably read that, blizzard will adapt - again, the thesis of virus versus antivirus, honorbuddy will always be one step ahead of Warden - unless you run into a brickwall and codes an already detected client where Warden already scans.

 

[GK2014]

Bottom line.. if (and I stress IF) warden can detect HB, Blizzard will wait until either just before or just after WoD to do mass bannings. We're no safer now than we were before the tripwire event. You bot - you run the risk of getting caught. Period. The end of discussion.

Until HB devs can figure out everything that changed and how to circumvent it as necessary, pure speculation will do nothing but spread mass hysteria and misinformation. So just chill. Let the HB devs figure it out. They'll keep us informed as they know more. There's no conspiracy here - so don't make it out to be one; they need time to reverse engineer the changes. They're in this to make a profit, and it would serve no purpose to with-hold information and drive everyone off by angering them.

I would also like to know where exactly they said that they couldn't talk about said changes. Last official post that I see states that it will take them roughly 30 days to analyze; fix if necessary; and then test "safety".

 

[DMan]

While I do agree that Blizzard would never intentionally reveal an update specifically targeting Honorbuddy, I would like to add that we've had no update as to the result of the court date on July 17th which was less than a week ago. For all we know, Bossland had the upperhand and the case was dismissed, and the tripwire event is a precautionary event in anticipation of a potential reprisal. Blizz could very well have the mindset that "Well now that we cannot take the money he's earning, we need to target the bot and make it insecure as to stop future income."

 

[1101011]

- Jan 2012 - Mass ban Pirox botters

this list isn't usefull because this ban was based on a stupid thing, so blizzard had to take their chance

By all means explain to me why there's a post then from Honorbuddy staff (announcements section) saying they can't give away the changed info or talk about what has changed for the next upcoming 30 days when that post was made and that they know this was a HB-targeted editing in Warden? Blizzard might not have told them, but what keeps Honorbuddy Staff from talking about the Warden changes then, hmm? I mean, warn us more than they have, maybe not down to the code-detail but more hints. Yes, Blizzard will probably read that, blizzard will adapt - again, the thesis of virus versus antivirus, honorbuddy will always be one step ahead of Warden - unless you run into a brickwall and codes an already detected client where Warden already scans.

Do you have any idea how much time you need to analize machine code? They don't have the quellcode they have to read either the machine code or a decompiler result.
Both aren't easy to read and beside this you need time so see how you are affected by a change.
take a look to the past. If i remember correct they have target the diablo3 bot buy checking if you opend the map before using a teleport. Maybe the teleport function was still safe but not opening the map was the thing which enabled blizzard to detect the bot.
Maybe my rembers aren't correct, it should just be an example how difficult suchs thins can be.

 

[TehMorbid]

Blizzard has over 130 modules within Warden. Warden scans every 4.5 hours. It will take around 30 days for the buddyteam to watch the scans and figure out if any new modules were added, and then that won't even say for sure, as there is the possibility they won't push each and every one.

Either bot or don't bot, simple as that. We won't know anything for awhile.

 

[loyoladude]

We wont know for a long time if HB's targeted or not.
Blizzard wont 'ban' anyone IF they have detected them for a while.

Stop all this needless posting.

 

[wajke]

Do you have any idea how much time you need to analize machine code? They don't have the quellcode they have to read either the machine code or a decompiler result.
Both aren't easy to read and beside this you need time so see how you are affected by a change.
take a look to the past. If i remember correct they have target the diablo3 bot buy checking if you opend the map before using a teleport. Maybe the teleport function was still safe but not opening the map was the thing which enabled blizzard to detect the bot.
Maybe my rembers aren't correct, it should just be an example how difficult suchs thins can be.

Yes, as I posted earlier in this thread I said I was a developer, I knew in particular a guy who'd stood firm against Warden's multiple tries to scan just for his software. He monitored Warden, often times, to his surprise, Warden was actually offline, shut off, but that was a very long while ago.

Blizzard has over 130 modules within Warden. Warden scans every 4.5 hours. It will take around 30 days for the buddyteam to watch the scans and figure out if any new modules were added, and then that won't even say for sure, as there is the possibility they won't push each and every one.

Either bot or don't bot, simple as that. We won't know anything for awhile.

Warden doesn't scan every 4.5 hours, the whole module itself is even OFFLINE some days, at one period we're talking about a week's offline time for Warden, probably maintenance (although that week-long thing was 2 years ago), but don't pull numbers out of your ass unless you have sources. "It will take around 30 days for the buddyteam to watch the scans" that's certainly not the reason. If Warden scans ever 4.5 hour like the number you pulled out of nowhere, it wouldn't take 30 days to see what memories it's scanning against HB. I'm smelling an NDA-contract obligation here, the "30 days" part of the announcement is what messes me up.

 

[wh420]

If its an NDA the 30 day disclosure could be in the contract to prevent the team from exposing them before they snagged the "big players"...that said I really don't think its an NDA...I wouldn't want to disclose the info publicly right off because a quick change to warden puts the whole team at square one again. Why would anyone want to jeopardize that? And 30 days isn't an unreasonable time to get a grasp of something you're reversing. Wouldnt want to say you knew what changed for sure and then be completely wrong...there goes the customer base and the trust they had in your team. They're just playing it safe.

 

[Giwin]

If its an NDA the 30 day disclosure could be in the contract to prevent the team from exposing them before they snagged the "big players"...that said I really don't think its an NDA...I wouldn't want to disclose the info publicly right off because a quick change to warden puts the whole team at square one again. Why would anyone want to jeopardize that? And 30 days isn't an unreasonable time to get a grasp of something you're reversing. Wouldnt want to say you knew what changed for sure and then be completely wrong...there goes the customer base and the trust they had in your team. They're just playing it safe.

the problem there is that the big players never stop.

 

[GK2014]

@Whatsmacroing - +10 karma if I could!

 

[amputations]

I just used TheBrodieMan plugin on my farms because YOLO

Whatsmacroing you should relax more, you seem way tense.

 

[wajke]

More like script kiddie, and no s""¤! Sherlock.. of course HB has an NDA with Blizzard, in addition to multitudes of lawsuits. Do your homework.



For god's sake fuck off with your script kiddie nonsense. You just sound like a jackass 14 year old who's just wikipedia'd 'hacking'. No one gains anything from your bullshit and there are no brownie points to earn here.

The Warden and Friends isn't just some sort of stupid shallow memory API. If there ever even so much was a connection to one of Blizzard's WoW servers, without a matching hook of Warden actively monitoring it. You'd either get an instant ban or you wouldn't be even able to connect. Every single connection to the game has to have a subsequent process of Warden monitoring it. You can't just reroute the process to look at some 'innocent' client. You're such a typical unimaginative lying tool. The Warden and Friends don't just scan the .exe processes memory it checks for all manner of Macro/Spammy bullshit in game, during gameplay, and every process has a separate Warden&Friends hook.

You think if this 'idiot' hacker can think of something like that, that Blizzard hasn't thought of that years ago? Now fuck off with your lying bullshit. Seriously pricks like you who contribute nothing relevant or truthful to anything get so much on my nerves.



Umm.. NDA maybe dumbass? Too-soon theory? Or they don't want Blizz to know immediately that Bossland/HB knows that they know what Blizz has done to update The Warden and Friends.
Please just stop breathing forever...



I want to punch you so hard for your bullshit... get out of my thread.



Yet there isn't even one lick of evidence that you actually know what the fuck you are talking about. Where are your 'sources' dipshit... this 'hacker' you know of?
Someone is going to have to pull my boot out of your ass in a minute.

My sources? ValiantChaos, maphack creator, SC2

 

[otro]

YOLO Boys!

BOT ON

 

[Mordark]

By all means explain to me why there's a post then from Honorbuddy staff (announcements section) saying they can't give away the changed info or talk about what has changed for the next upcoming 30 days when that post was made and that they know this was a HB-targeted editing in Warden? Blizzard might not have told them, but what keeps Honorbuddy Staff from talking about the Warden changes then, hmm? I mean, warn us more than they have, maybe not down to the code-detail but more hints. Yes, Blizzard will probably read that, blizzard will adapt - again, the thesis of virus versus antivirus, honorbuddy will always be one step ahead of Warden - unless you run into a brickwall and codes an already detected client where Warden already scans.

Think of it this way: The best way to ban certain players is to become one of them and read up on what they know so you may know it as well. If a Blizzard employee were to be in the forums trying to find information, or were to hire someone to read it for them, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by giving away what we know.

 

[wajke]

Think of it this way: The best way to ban certain players is to become one of them and read up on what they know so you may know it as well. If a Blizzard employee were to be in the forums trying to find information, or were to hire someone to read it for them, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by giving away what we know.

Then why release any kind of info at all after 30 days if you have the upper advantage of blizz not knowing what we know?

 

[wh420]

They more than likely aren't going to release that info. Its what theyve already referred to it as a trade secret...all theyre going to say is rhat they're certain the bot is secure and that the risk is either back to normal or slightly elevated due to flags for other reasons such as endless dungeon runs or gathering etc. It would be idiocy to define what it was that was changed to bypass the issue, if there is one, or define what exactly it is being detected if it pertains specifically to the software and not the actual act of flagging due to various statistics. The community as a whole just has to agree to acknowledge that somethings being changed within warden, and at this current time the risk of botting is elevated. There is no certain percentage of account bannings going on, or percentage of a banwave incoming. For all we know this could all be in preparation for WoD and the upcoming merge of faction auction houses or something else. Sit tight and be patient and decide for yourself if you're going to bot during this time or not...just as much as it was your choice to do it before all of this and it was your choice to even consider purchasing the software.

 

[ez101]

There may be another post about my concern - if so please just direct me to it.

I was in the middle of a raid last night and noticed HB stopped working - the game client didn't close. I tried loading HB again a few times, and saw the "Invalid Session" message that HB was shutting down in 20 seconds. This was after HB was started up and I selected CC etc. when I went back to my logs, I did see the first one that said Tripwire was activated. So my question is, if HB logged in and started for 20 seconds does that mean Tripwire did or didn't work. If this cannot be revealed due to "proprietary" info of the buddy team fine. Seems like we shouldn't be able to login at all rather than logging in and having HB "running" for 20 seconds. Or did I just think it was running?

 

[Coolio99]

If it says "invalid message" or "tripwire" when you try to log on it means it did not attach to the client and therefore you are ok. Even though HB is running as a program on your computer, it is prevented to attach to WoW by those messages. You're perfectly fine.

 

[wh420]

The reason they allowed the auth servers back up after checking on the changes was these changes were deemed unrelated to honorbuddy at this time. For future reference though, check the honorbuddy forum and there should be an announcement with whatever details they can give in there.

 

[christiantroy]

Hello fellow botters,

Recently we have been getting hit by the Warden updates which causes HB service to go offline. Developers are currently looking into it but I have a theory about it..

The first tripwire event happened on 22nd of July and the second one happened on 27th of July.5 days between Warden updates sounds a little bit fishy huh? If you look at the history of Warden updates you will see the it actually happens very rarely.But why this time it happened twice in 5 days.

When warden was updated on 22nd and 27th of July. Hundreds or thousands of bots went offline right at the same time. So if you have been botting while these incidents happened your account created a pattern of going offline when Warden is updated.

Blizzard is probably not even updating Warden for real. They are just causing a placebo effect to get Honorbuddy to activate tripwire. Updates on Warden activates tripwire and tripwire shuts down ur WOW and ur account gets flagged because it always goes offline at the same time warden updates. More updates on Warden creates more patterns for ur account to get flagged.