Seriously Guys

[quel]

Can't see what people are bitichig about. You should know what you are getting into, and what you have paid for. Its not like its legal to bot. And if blizz throws a patch out so HB need some new offsets, who cares. I'll gladly wait. And for those we want a refund, sure. More space for the others on the forums to write on.

 

[CodenameG]

Can't see what people are bitichig about. You should know what you are getting into, and what you have paid for. Its not like its legal to bot. And if blizz throws a patch out so HB need some new offsets, who cares. I'll gladly wait. And for those we want a refound, sure. More space for the others on the forums to write on.

you cant see because ive deleted the post. if they want a refund they need to take it up with bossland, but really we cant control blizzard.

 

[bobby53]

you cant see because ive deleted the post. if they want a refund they need to take it up with bossland, but really we cant control blizzard.

Love the Back to the Future II quote CnG! Good series of movies, and one of the better quotes from them

 

[Laddadbot]

Delete, due to missunderstanding.

 

[Conso]

Holy shit I think Bossland should all of you some tissue.
It's not about defending a company, its about real expectations when there are updates. Are you going to bitch because your car needs an oil change? Or maybe bitch because your OnStar computer needs upgrading and you have to spend a day at the shop? Seriously people get outside more.

Morga

There is a big difference that you have overlooked. When you go to get your oil changed at a car dealership, they give you an ETA, and if they don't, you know it will be done in a couple of hours.
Or lets say your OnStar computer needs upgrading and you have to spend the day at the shop? You actually know that it is going to take a day.

You don't walk into get an oil change and ask, "How long do you think it will take?", and they respond, "Listen, it'll be done when it's done".
Well, now that we have a firm grasp of the obvious, let's move into the real detail.

Let's give examples of being left in the dark:
1) "Sometime in the future."
2) "It'll be done when it's done."
3) "Maybe, I'll let you know."

Now, but all means, I could honestly care less if the bot ever came back into existence, (Which it will), but if you are expected to earn good money, a professional persona is expected.
I run many online services to people, and always, I can announce an ETA when the service can be done.
You take a look at what need's to be done, estimate the time to fix, also considering you're personal life, and other issues that may add into the estimation of the time.
Even then, taking a few minutes to calculate the time to fix, (and also other considerations), then making a post about it, honestly only takes a few minutes.

But, if you REALLY don't know when it is going to be up, that's when you said, "I'm not sure, honestly". But if you aren't sure when your service is going to be available again, then maybe you shouldn't be running it in the first place. Hard earned money spent and all we expect is a simple post noting with an estimated time when it will be up.

And I understand that bug's can happen at any second during the coding phase, but, one step at a time, you can still update us on the issues and where you are in the progress of getting the service back to availability.

Communication is key in any relationship, even professional and business ones.
And simply saying "It'll be done when it's done" is a bad argument. Also it puts off a undertone of innuendo.

By all means, I'm not writing this in an angry tone. I love all the developers here and everything they have put forth in making this move forward. But, all of the poor arguments needed to be responded to.

 

[CodenameG]

if i had a release date, i would tell you, but i dont know. i just dont know when the bot will come back after this ninja patch blizzard just pulled. people really do need to relax.

 

[Apoc]

There is a big difference that you have overlooked. When you go to get your oil changed at a car dealership, they give you an ETA, and if they don't, you know it will be done in a couple of hours.
Or lets say your OnStar computer needs upgrading and you have to spend the day at the shop? You actually know that it is going to take a day.

You don't walk into get an oil change and ask, "How long do you think it will take?", and they respond, "Listen, it'll be done when it's done".
Well, now that we have a firm grasp of the obvious, let's move into the real detail.

Let's give examples of being left in the dark:
1) "Sometime in the future."
2) "It'll be done when it's done."
3) "Maybe, I'll let you know."

Now, but all means, I could honestly care less if the bot ever came back into existence, (Which it will), but if you are expected to earn good money, a professional persona is expected.
I run many online services to people, and always, I can announce an ETA when the service can be done.
You take a look at what need's to be done, estimate the time to fix, also considering you're personal life, and other issues that may add into the estimation of the time.
Even then, taking a few minutes to calculate the time to fix, (and also other considerations), then making a post about it, honestly only takes a few minutes.

But, if you REALLY don't know when it is going to be up, that's when you said, "I'm not sure, honestly". But if you aren't sure when your service is going to be available again, then maybe you shouldn't be running it in the first place. Hard earned money spent and all we expect is a simple post noting with an estimated time when it will be up.

And I understand that bug's can happen at any second during the coding phase, but, one step at a time, you can still update us on the issues and where you are in the progress of getting the service back to availability.

Communication is key in any relationship, even professional and business ones.
And simply saying "It'll be done when it's done" is a bad argument. Also it puts off a undertone of innuendo.

By all means, I'm not writing this in an angry tone. I love all the developers here and everything they have put forth in making this move forward. But, all of the poor arguments needed to be responded to.

It'll be done when it's done.

/sarcasm

On a serious note; I try to give at least rough estimates, even if they aren't official.

Like the following: Probably going to be back up within 6-8hrs. - GB much sooner

 

[DaSoul]

There is a big difference that you have overlooked. When you go to get your oil changed at a car dealership, they give you an ETA, and if they don't, you know it will be done in a couple of hours.
Or lets say your OnStar computer needs upgrading and you have to spend the day at the shop? You actually know that it is going to take a day.

You don't walk into get an oil change and ask, "How long do you think it will take?", and they respond, "Listen, it'll be done when it's done".
Well, now that we have a firm grasp of the obvious, let's move into the real detail.

Let's give examples of being left in the dark:
1) "Sometime in the future."
2) "It'll be done when it's done."
3) "Maybe, I'll let you know."

Now, but all means, I could honestly care less if the bot ever came back into existence, (Which it will), but if you are expected to earn good money, a professional persona is expected.
I run many online services to people, and always, I can announce an ETA when the service can be done.
You take a look at what need's to be done, estimate the time to fix, also considering you're personal life, and other issues that may add into the estimation of the time.
Even then, taking a few minutes to calculate the time to fix, (and also other considerations), then making a post about it, honestly only takes a few minutes.

But, if you REALLY don't know when it is going to be up, that's when you said, "I'm not sure, honestly". But if you aren't sure when your service is going to be available again, then maybe you shouldn't be running it in the first place. Hard earned money spent and all we expect is a simple post noting with an estimated time when it will be up.

And I understand that bug's can happen at any second during the coding phase, but, one step at a time, you can still update us on the issues and where you are in the progress of getting the service back to availability.

Communication is key in any relationship, even professional and business ones.
And simply saying "It'll be done when it's done" is a bad argument. Also it puts off a undertone of innuendo.

By all means, I'm not writing this in an angry tone. I love all the developers here and everything they have put forth in making this move forward. But, all of the poor arguments needed to be responded to.

/sign a million times, couldn't have written it better!

That's what i am always talking about.
If a CC or pluging dev tells us, it's done when it's done..then this is okay..as it is his hobby. But if i pay for something, i expect at least a bit of professional support / service. "It's done when it's done" is nothing i call professional. (i am only talking about the support!) It does not take hours to create a status category / thread (locked, so that only devs can reply) and write a few sentences about how it is going..seriously that just takes not more then a few minutes.

"Communication is key in any relationship, even professional and business ones."

..and a good relationship keeps customers where they are!

 

[bossland]

So a small statement from me,

we have now a few GB and HB users, since we started 1.5 years ago with the public version.

Users from over 100 countries use the forum and the products we sell. Back in time we were a staff of 2 + 1, now its more like 2 + 10.

But the problem is, that each one has unique qualities, you can't take all 10 of them and put them to fix HB within an hour, or answer payment related PMs within a minute.

Each one has his work area, and each one has to sleep. Also working 24 / 7 might be ok of you own the product, like i do, but if you have employees .. you can not expect them to work 24 / 7 , they have a life .. and they are not being paid for 120 hours a week of work.

The easy solution would be to hire another 50 employees and have then 50 idling once there is no patch, but who will pay them for just idling ?

The support you get from us is compared from 1.5 years ago, worser that it was back in time, but then we had a staff of 3-4 people and an userbase of few people.
Now the userbase grow up a lot but we can not afford it to grew the staff base that fast as the userbase did. Why ? Because you can do it only if you have venture capital sitting behind you and having a plan to conquer the world, otherwise the company would be bankrupt within 1 month.

So service costs a lot of money, money comes from customers, we need to find the right balance between that. But there are also areas where you can not just hire 100 new ppl, like the payment area .. unless you have an office where they all work at the same place on your hardware and are being controlled.

However, we all work more than we are being paid for, thats for sure, but thats the only way we have an balance between income and costs. But its fun, ask Nesox and Main how much hours they spend each month of adding new stuff to HB, improving routines and fixing bugs.

The other fact is the internet itself, for the interner relatet content (servers, auth, shop) for example, we would need to spend around 75 EUR a month with an fine hosted solution.

In the real world there are DDoS attacks which cause over an compact disc (700mb) traffic per second, have bandwith of several gigabits per second, and cost us a big 4 numbered sum a month to stay online and provide you this service.

Not including the time and headache to find solutions which fit the needs we have and make them work.

 

[hookupskid85]

You guys don't need to explain yourself F the people complaining, if they don't like it. Go somewhere else. They do a great job with everything here. Please take as much time as you need to fix it.

 

[Angelus]

So how about service Darkben?

 

[DaSoul]

You guys don't need to explain yourself F the people complaining, if they don't like it. Go somewhere else. They do a great job with everything here. Please take as much time as you need to fix it.

You did not listen to what we are talking about here. It is not about how long the bot is offline or anything like that - really if it takes 1 month to update it well okay, go for it. I know/trust this team has the experience and knowledge and i would never doubt that the teams doesn't work very hard...that's all sure...but like said before that is not the point.

What i/others would like to have is just a better flow of information. Therefore you don't need a bigger team or spend money on something it's just to create let's say a sticky thread in the release area called "release/update information".

If a new patch hits us we can go there and get short, clear information on the current development progress. This could be easly made like this:

• New patch, we expect 7 days downtimes due to big changes
• (a few days passed by) Hey guys, making fine progress looking forward to the release
• (bigger problem occurred within the 7 days) Been fixing mesh problems, release takes perhaps longer
• (7 days have passed) We are currently finishing,fixing last changes / still have problems can't release today - need another x days -
• *test version released* Test version is out, still problems with xyz..working on it, plz test
• *info on new release* working on another more stable version, errors xyz have been fixed, new estimation is xx days

Every of this status posts is writeable within a few seconds/ a minute and really doesn't hurt anyone. It gives the community nice information and they know what's going on.

 

[DarkBen]

People, it?s easy to give unrealistic comparison between areas totally different.

Repetitive tasks like change car oil, is not a good comparison. If you change oil from 1 car, you will always know how much it takes.

Neither is working in a project that all you need is your own knowledge. And is not dependent on third party technologies where you have to work on with no support from the tech owner.

We are talking about creativity and research.

Every time blizz launch a patch or update, they need time to research what changed, what's new, what have been removed.

That cannot be measured in a safe way and sometimes cannot be estimated.

I remember when they told that HB2 was being developed. Everybody rushed out to boards asking for a Beta/Alpha Build, because of the new navigation and so.

And i'm not here as a paying customer who is a fan. I'm here as an IT guy, who had leadership/projects/managing/schedules experience (i work in IT since 93).

HB/GB has monthly paying plans, but thats i believe is for people who would bot for a month or two, because if you plan to bot for more than that, you can pay for a lifetime that you pay only once, and receive support for the lifetime of the product.

Now think of it. If bossland change it by month as any serious and good quality online games out there, he would be able to hire a team of devs to work in a specifically problem and fix thing faster, but thats not what happens here. What we have is a group of people that he hired and they work mostly for fun than everything else. Because as Boss stated, they cannot work 24/7, we are all humans, not machines, they have to sleep.

That being say, i repeat we have a great product and support for what we paid for.

So how about service Darkben?

Service is what you get in this forum, support, information, availability, which is being severely hit by DDoS from time to time and that cost money.

And as i said before, keep this civilized, don?t point finger/offend anyone, if you disagree with any statement, just give your point, no need to be aggressive.

I know many people would not agree with me, thats what we call diversity of mind. Everyone has it?s own opinion, i?m only stating what i think and that what i have experience on.

 

[DarkBen]

You did not listen to what we are talking about here. It is not about how long the bot is offline or anything like that - really if it takes 1 month to update it well okay, go for it. I know/trust this team has the experience and knowledge and i would never doubt that the teams doesn't work very hard...that's all sure...but like said before that is not the point.

What i/others would like to have is just a better flow of information. Therefore you don't need a bigger team or spend money on something it's just to create let's say a sticky thread in the release area called "release/update information".

If a new patch hits us we can go there and get short, clear information on the current development progress. This could be easly made like this:

• New patch, we expect 7 days downtimes due to big changes
• (a few days passed by) Hey guys, making fine progress looking forward to the release
• (bigger problem occurred within the 7 days) Been fixing mesh problems, release takes perhaps longer
• (7 days have passed) We are currently finishing,fixing last changes / still have problems can't release today - need another x days -
• *test version released* Test version is out, still problems with xyz..working on it, plz test
• *info on new release* working on another more stable version, errors xyz have been fixed, new estimation is xx days

Every of this status posts is writeable within a few seconds/ a minute and really doesn't hurt anyone. It gives the community nice information and they know what's going on.

Dude that have already been done, when hb2 beta was going to be released, but the topic reach more than 20 pages of people asking to release it faster. And trying to rush it out.

Maybe they should do that in a locked topic perhaps. But for that you have to give one person the task of updating everyone (what would be a project manager) and that also cost money.

 

[DaSoul]

Dude that have already been done, when hb2 beta was going to be released, but the topic reach more than 20 pages of people asking to release it faster. And trying to rush it out.

Maybe they should do that in a locked topic perhaps. But for that you have to give one person the task of updating everyone (what would be a project manager) and that also cost money.

Yeah that was what i meant, a locked thread and one of the devs gives a short info every few days.

A better example then the oil car:

I am working in the IT too. If a customer wants to have a change or new development i have to give an estimation. Everytime! Sometimes i just don't even know what the problem is/what has to be done but i still always have to give an estimation. If i start the development and recognize that it takes longer due to whatever, i instantly get in contact with the customer and inform him. That's how i do it (have to do it)
I know it's annoying when people complain about every little shit, but it was never my thought to complain about anything! This was meant to be a constructive criticism. I'm sure that would result in a positive effect in the meaning of more information = less people asking/complaining about release.

 

[samryan]

i havent botted really since the DDOS attacks started.. so looking forward to getting back into it.. but i think people are kindof entitled to at least ask when the new version is expected.. they have paid money, and kind of deserve an ETA. especially the people that pay by the month.

saying that, im price and quality aswell, and would much rather a nice cheap bot that worked great.. even if it took a week longer.

 

[pbettell]

99% of the time, the expected release/reason for delay question gets answered very quickly. The problem seems to be that people can't read the forums very well, and as a result start a new thread. Result = a million threads, only one of which has the answer on it......

 

[Apoc]

1) We (devs, Hawker/Bossland) will usually give a rough ETA when asked. (At least, I always do.)

2) We try not to give 'hard-set' ETAs because people go ballistic if we miss it, even by 10 minutes. (It doesn't matter if we update the main post saying "it'll be an hour late", they still go batshit crazy)

3) If we create a single, locked, thread for updates, people will flood the forums with other threads, which causes more of a headache for us.

As I've said before, we appreciate feedback. And we update you guys when we can. Some times however, we're just too busy getting done what needs to get done, to give any worthwhile updates.

 

[djxaero]

Apoc, I see threads and replies from lazy people all the time explaining their bot is broken when in fact everyone's is as if they have no idea a patch hit. Just like a tech support line has. The HB main page should have a service status message and the chat room too to explain HB outage and not to flood, and if there is an eta, otherwise these people will continue to flood. Can we please see something like this?

 

[bossland]

and you really thing if i place important stuff on 100 places it will help ?

i get PMs right away from new registered users, which are forced to read the cata downtime thread with : "HB is not working" 2 weeks ago ...