Security

[paradoxial]

MMototus is based in EU - i never believed they got a cod and i think the guy just searched for a way to escape his situation

We did receive cease and desists. All 4 developers. Don't speak out of place specially if you don't know what happened. Additionally we had no situation to escape from our bot maybe used 8 easily reversible offsets. Nothing else.

 

[xasset]

ONe wise man said.... Don't argue with fool, or you will fall down to his level, where he will win you using his experience and qualification ) ( I think it's a correct translation into english)

 

[Fedelia]

This thread isn't about if Blizzard can legally go after HB/GB, it's about if they can detect it and what security methods GB/HB use. Glider had shadowdriver, what does HB have other than tripwire? Gremlin's most recent banwave and the may '08 banwave both proved that tripwire isn't sufficient security (but neither was shadowdriver in the case of the 08 banwave.)

 

[hokumera]

This thread isn't about if Blizzard can legally go after HB/GB, it's about if they can detect it and what security methods GB/HB use. Glider had shadowdriver, what does HB have other than tripwire? Gremlin's most recent banwave and the may '08 banwave both proved that tripwire isn't sufficient security (but neither was shadowdriver in the case of the 08 banwave.)

But its the best we got... I don't think bot security will improve much more. It would need constant updating which would take from the dev time of the actual bot.

 

[wilsonj17]

This thread isn't about if Blizzard can legally go after HB/GB, it's about if they can detect it and what security methods GB/HB use. Glider had shadowdriver, what does HB have other than tripwire? Gremlin's most recent banwave and the may '08 banwave both proved that tripwire isn't sufficient security (but neither was shadowdriver in the case of the 08 banwave.)

Im sure i heard somewere that Zuruss was lieing about the tripwire there was not one, plus to add to that warden updated the client which bypased the tripwire so it was useless.

 

[nET]

Okay, 5 page of mostly rubbish so ill ignore and give my 2c

Basically as HB is in the EU (Germany to be percise) there is a good chance blizzard cant do to HB what they done to Glider, however that is for the courts to decide, in the end the EULA could hold up (nobody knows cus it hasn't happened yet, the US ruling was pretty unbelivable), you only have to look at bittorrent sites being shutdown, they dont provide the copyrighted material only the links etc.

As for the security, short explanation yes, long explanation no, basically there are some features to avoid being detected but nothing to advanced, in the end everything is detectable, and it only takes the wardenguy to not be lazy, do some work and we are caught out, now i've noticed a sync message every now and again with HB (during DDoS) this tends to be when tripwire page isn't up, now what HB is doing isn't for me to know nor do I care atm but I would assume its checking its tripwire page.

Methods Glider used like ISXWarden.dll don't work atm to my knowledge (if you go to the forum for it, it has big red text from 2008 saying LINK HAS BEEN REMOVED), so no its not as safe as glider because I don't think their is an easy way to be safe other than use a private bot which none of you will get your hands on i'm afraid and neither will I

 

[Mario27]

Thats my point though, define safe? safe for me is the tripwire doing its job. The biggest problem with botting is the person behind the keyboard. If people are whispering you saying *why are you always here* when your botting then you know you have problems. I aren't saying your crap at using the program im just saying that the only issue of being safe when the bot isnt detected is the user doing it properly.

thats why you use the 1-60 profile it wil move true another spot when it has that lvl then people think he is playing self i never had anywhispers ur a botter or whatever

 

[Mario27]

ONe wise man said.... Don't argue with fool, or you will fall down to his level, where he will win you using his experience and qualification ) ( I think it's a correct translation into english)

so who you calling a fool?

 

[Mario27]

Okay, 5 page of mostly rubbish so ill ignore and give my 2c

Basically as HB is in the EU (Germany to be percise) there is a good chance blizzard cant do to HB what they done to Glider, however that is for the courts to decide, in the end the EULA could hold up (nobody knows cus it hasn't happened yet, the US ruling was pretty unbelivable), you only have to look at bittorrent sites being shutdown, they dont provide the copyrighted material only the links etc.

As for the security, short explanation yes, long explanation no, basically there are some features to avoid being detected but nothing to advanced, in the end everything is detectable, and it only takes the wardenguy to not be lazy, do some work and we are caught out, now i've noticed a sync message every now and again with HB (during DDoS) this tends to be when tripwire page isn't up, now what HB is doing isn't for me to know nor do I care atm but I would assume its checking its tripwire page.

Methods Glider used like ISXWarden.dll don't work atm to my knowledge (if you go to the forum for it, it has big red text from 2008 saying LINK HAS BEEN REMOVED), so no its not as safe as glider because I don't think their is an easy way to be safe other than use a private bot which none of you will get your hands on i'm afraid and neither will I

Wel if HB use The same Tripwire as Glider did you shouldn be afraid of dedeteced

 

[nET]

They may or may not, i don't believe they are using isxwarden however, but i know the Dev's would have access to other methods similar, glider also done something wierd that I don't know if it was needed or tricked anything, I may suggest it to bossland

 

[Hawker]

We did receive cease and desists. All 4 developers. Don't speak out of place specially if you don't know what happened. Additionally we had no situation to escape from our bot maybe used 8 easily reversible offsets. Nothing else.

Yet you all carry on developing and the mmototus project is now being worked in by naa in the Omega forums?

Lets be real - if you guys really were scared off, you would not have released a gathering bot within a month.

To those who ask what we are doing about detection, might I ask you a question? If I publish a detailed answer and Blizzard uses that info to ban you, will you feel I have done a good or bad job?

 

[brabbit]

To those who ask what we are doing about detection, might I ask you a question? If I publish a detailed answer and Blizzard uses that info to ban you, will you feel I have done a good or bad job?

LOL - what a great answer, should hire you as my PR!!

 

[nET]

LOL - what a great answer, should hire you as my PR!!

THATS WHAT I SAID TWO WEEKS AGO!!! ironically it was due to a similar question

What you have to realise is, you never know what blizzard will pull, they have the money and lawyers and although they may not win, they can put HB in a situation they cant actually afford to go to court, this is often the case with big businesses that prey on the smaller ones who don't have the money to defend themselves or at worst lose and have to give up earnings, alot of the reason why alot of bittorrent sites just shut up shop rather than fight cease and desists (I'll keep refering to BT sites as its an easy example).

If blizzard order them to stop or go to court, should they fight it.... I wouldn't think it was wise unless they were confident the law was on their side, this is something only Bossland and his lawyer could figure out, the EU law may or may not be on their side but wtf does that matter now adays when the courts are swayed by the big corps as they have absolutely no knowledge of IT, if they were in the US they could probably try and bundle with gliders defense and piggy back on them but given they lost it wouldnt have been a good idea... EU is a completely different ballgame though and they have already seen the case play out in the US and prepare that way

 

[bossland]

At least in Germany there are special courts, which actually do their work and homework.

And about Blizzard ... i do not think it is a good idea for them to attack now, they saw that Gatherbuddy and Honorbuddy are doing well, maybe they will wait 1-3 years and sue us then for 6.5 $, for now they can not even get 6.5 $ out of the company

But at the end, who knows ...

 

[Zezuio]

Would i have to download tripwire separetly or is it built into HB? so it autoshutdowns wow/hb if it detects warden updates

 

[verbo]

I much prefer the protection methods be kept closed for the exact reason that Hawker pointed out. It's much safer for everyone if as little information about it is released as possible to keep them guessing.
EU is quite different from the US, just look at what they did to Microsoft over bundling Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer with the release version of Windows. In addition to the biggest fine on record, they forced them to release a seperate package that did not include these software packages. They definatly are not in bed with the big corporations, that much is certain.

 

[nET]

At least in Germany there are special courts, which actually do their work and homework.

And about Blizzard ... i do not think it is a good idea for them to attack now, they saw that Gatherbuddy and Honorbuddy are doing well, maybe they will wait 1-3 years and sue us then for 6.5 $, for now they can not even get 6.5 $ out of the company

But at the end, who knows ...

Agreed, I think they would have left MDY alone alot longer but didnt he bring them to court first to push for legal botting?

If you look at patent trolls, its the same method they use, the register a patent, wait for someone to pick it up, wait until they make ALOT of business from the product then turn around and go to court for millions, happens to the big companies all the time, no reason why the big companies wouldn't do the same, and in my opinion blizzard benifits from botters (due to how many accounts they have) they just want to seem to have a hard line on it to keep the rest of their customer base happy, glider got hit in several ban waves simply because people were complaining alot in the forum, when this happens they have to appear to care

 

[fpsware]

I can honestly say if it wasn't for HB / GB I'd have considerably less accounts. Blizzard make more money from me because I bot!

 

[bossland]

Agreed, I think they would have left MDY alone alot longer but didnt he bring them to court first to push for legal botting?

and again you failed

I do not know why you dont have any background info , as its free available but write here such stuff

 

[nET]

and again you failed

I do not know why you dont have any background info , as its free available but write here such stuff

Do you ever read anything fully, i never said he did, i posed a question saying "DIDNT HE" i.e. im not really sure, I'm happy to verify later, but never thought it was THAT important a topic that i need to go back and read through 100 pages of legal documents, but I never said that this was fact, hence ASKING!

now if i had said "Blizzard would have left MDY alone only HE sued them first" that would have been a completely different story.

Chances are i'm mixing up the case with mininova (or isohunt or whoever it was some big bittorrent site), given its been going on years and i'm not following the case line by line because i do infact have better things to do.

EDIT:

Done my brief research: http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/03/23/mdy-blizzard-motions/ (note i'm working at the moment so not reading the entire extract)

MDY originally filed this lawsuit in federal court in Arizona seeking a declaratory judgment that MDY does not violate Blizzard’s intellectual property rights by selling the Glider program. Blizzard counterclaimed, alleging trademark and copyright infringement, as well as a handful of business torts. The case is now at the “Summary Judgment” stage.

feel free to research further to correct me if i'm wrong...