Sad sight to see (State of Profiles)

[Venus112]

CnG explicity said asking for donations is allowed, as long as there is a working, free to access version attached to the thread (as for CRs).

Asking for donations is one thing; asking for donations to access things is completely different.


Quote Handnavi:

Hello,

I just want to clarify some facts regarding "selling" any piece of code within this Board.

1.) Is it allowed in general to sell CC's, Plugins, Profiles (,...) here?
2.) Is a required donation also called "selling"?
3.) Is it allowed to give out GUI's just for "donors" because it basically offers no other functions?
4.) Is it allowed to offer "other stuff" (like advanced functions) and only give it out to "donors"?
5.) Is it allowed to use code of other members and offer it as "donor only"?


Feel free to answer,
Cheers

Quote CNG:

1. no, you cant sell anything here. plugins, profiles, cheat codes for super mario world. we aren't setup to protect people in case someone decides to screw someone else over. so its not allowed for anything
2. yes, required donation is basicly selling it.
3. no, its not allowed, it complicates things and falls with the same reasons as number 1
4. no, refer to number 3 and 1
5. no, if they arent making money off it then you shouldn't ether, taking someones code and making money off it is the exact reason why people threw fits when the new rules where instated, so doing so would be very bad.

hope that clears things up.

Link: http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorb...n-regarding-development-rules.html#post666698

 

[greaterdeath]

I wouldn't mind paying for some of their profiles and whatnot, But they ask stupidly high prices. Gatherits is probably the most reasonable, but still on the high side, but im cool with that because it keeps them secluded. But $30 for a combat routine is just ridiculous.

Yea, I equate it to the cost of a HB key, which I know I will be able to use as long as wow is around; spending $30 for something that may not be around next week just isn't gonna happen. I can make due with the crippled versions they release, lol.

 

[floppydrive]

I agree and disagree at the same time. I have noticed a lack of quality profiles here on HB, and dont get tell me to write my own because that is not why i bought HB. My friend recommended me this bot because it had a nice amount of free/default bots that work well. That was in cata. As soon as MoP hit i feel like not a lot has been done, but i could be wrong.

 

[Kickazz006]

OP - I have a perfectly good working klaxxi dailies, i'm starting on the shado pan ones soon and the other ones too. If you want, you know... you can easily learn how to code a simple daily profile.

My job is leveling, but I provide the dailies for free. Take an hour and learn how to code a profile and help out. Need help? look at my BlankQO.xml in my svn

kick's svn / Useful profiles / BlankQO.xml

Also, Vego has other profiles that may work for you until I get mine done.

http://www.thebuddyforum.com/search.php?searchid=5464212

 

[steelerdrew]

I dont personally see a lack of quality. I run the dailies every day from Klaxxi to Lotus, to Celestias and Shado Pan with very limited issues using a profile that was released here.

 

[Gaz]

There is two different discution here.

- Paying for stuff, it's apparently against the rules. But TuanHa Monk CR is badass one of the best CR ever, so I don't know what to think.
- Quality of profiles. Yes some profiles are bad but atleast people try to contribute to the community. Don't forget that quests are getting more complex (vehicules, fishing, cooking, ...) and the pathing is not perfect right now.

 

[Botanist]

What most of you seem to forget is that you pay for HB, and HB is only half of what you need. You need HB plus a profile in order for it to run. HB doesn't produce profiles so they are selling you half a product. But then you expect people to create and give you the other half of the product (profiles) for free. The people who know how to make good profiles aren't going to spend their time making and debugging profiles for hours and just give them away. It doesn't work that way anywhere in the world. Then you end up with a flood of amatures making profiles, some of which accomplish their task, some of which were a waste of time to begin with. If more people supported the ones that make the "other" half of the bot you might notice more quality profles available to the public. But 90% of you will never click a donate button for something you can get for free.

Edit: This applies to CC writers and plugin writers as well.

 

[greaterdeath]

What most of you seem to forget is that you pay for HB, and HB is only half of what you need. You need HB plus a profile in order for it to run. HB doesn't produce profiles so they are selling you half a product. But then you expect people to create and give you the other half of the product (profiles) for free. The people who know how to make good profiles aren't going to spend their time making and debugging profiles for hours and just give them away. It doesn't work that way anywhere in the world. Then you end up with a flood of amatures making profiles, some of which accomplish their task, some of which were a waste of time to begin with. If more people supported the ones that make the "other" half of the bot you might notice more quality profles available to the public. But 90% of you will never click a donate button for something you can get for free.

Edit: This applies to CC writers and plugin writers as well.

Its very apparent what else is needed to make HB run. Yea, most people aren't going donate for something they can get for free, but if developers are just going to develop for donations then they probably shouldn't bother either. Make something really useful like alternate BG profiles, dungeonbuddy profiles, of which there are none, and sell them on ownedcore; sell me something I know I can keep using regardless of whether or not you're here tomorrow.

 

[rodxuxa]

What most of you seem to forget is that you pay for HB, and HB is only half of what you need. You need HB plus a profile in order for it to run. HB doesn't produce profiles so they are selling you half a product. But then you expect people to create and give you the other half of the product (profiles) for free. The people who know how to make good profiles aren't going to spend their time making and debugging profiles for hours and just give them away. It doesn't work that way anywhere in the world. Then you end up with a flood of amatures making profiles, some of which accomplish their task, some of which were a waste of time to begin with. If more people supported the ones that make the "other" half of the bot you might notice more quality profles available to the public. But 90% of you will never click a donate button for something you can get for free.

Edit: This applies to CC writers and plugin writers as well.

I agree completely. Wich is why i think HB is cheap compared to the price people ask for profiles. 10 bucks for herb picking compared to a lifetime key? If HB costs 75 dollars and worked as it should, with the option to customize with profiles, everyone would be happy. But what you see if a bunch of bots stuck into mountains and the best profiles coming from the community (not counting kickz, but im not saying anything bad about him because i dont want to get flamed like everyone that tries to do it).

Incoming thread lock.

 

[Gentoo]

Cry me a freaking river. "Closed community" = "less money" sorry your not having fun.

You can always tell a 2012 join date just by reading the post.

 

[HBfanboy1980]

What most of you seem to forget is that you pay for HB, and HB is only half of what you need. You need HB plus a profile in order for it to run. HB doesn't produce profiles so they are selling you half a product. But then you expect people to create and give you the other half of the product (profiles) for free. The people who know how to make good profiles aren't going to spend their time making and debugging profiles for hours and just give them away. It doesn't work that way anywhere in the world. Then you end up with a flood of amatures making profiles, some of which accomplish their task, some of which were a waste of time to begin with. If more people supported the ones that make the "other" half of the bot you might notice more quality profles available to the public. But 90% of you will never click a donate button for something you can get for free.

Edit: This applies to CC writers and plugin writers as well.

The problem is i agree with Inegro, Botanist, Gatherit, TuanHA, Mustahg(spell?), and others who are selling their very well put together code. The problem is the distribution methods they are forced to use.

@botanist, I respect your work and have used your profiles from time to time when i only need something or a short amount of time and didn't want to write my own. However, your argument is only 3/4 complete. HB sells "half the product" but its including the bot bases as well as source code which is possibly many magnitudes larger than every profile we have on the site put together. All this aside, its very hard to start shelling out 4.00 here, and 10.00 there for profiles and then 30 or 40 for routines.... for individual classes.

There needs to be a content distribution system where you are compensated based on the amount of purchases you get... so we can pay a more reasonable price. This will bring in more people and more money and stop most of the whining.

 

[Botanist]

For years now, I made public profiles and supported them on the forums as well as live help via Skype. Which netted me a grand total of $15 in donations. Not saying my profles were the best or perfect, but I made them as good as possible within the limitations of HB. I basically did everything possible from a profile writers perspective to make good profiles and support them, but received little to no support from the community. After a while, you reach the point where you say "why bother".

Its very apparent what else is needed to make HB run. Yea, most people aren't going donate for something they can get for free, but if developers are just going to develop for donations then they probably shouldn't bother either. Make something really useful like alternate BG profiles, dungeonbuddy profiles, of which there are none, and sell them on ownedcore; sell me something I know I can keep using regardless of whether or not you're here tomorrow.

 

[Venus112]

For years now, I made public profiles and supported them on the forums as well as live help via Skype. Which netted me a grand total of $15 in donations. Not saying my profles were the best or perfect, but I made them as good as possible within the limitations of HB. I basically did everything possible from a profile writers perspective to make good profiles and support them, but received little to no support from the community. After a while, you reach the point where you say "why bother".

In a way i know what you mean. When we did the Lazyraider CC compilation, we sometimes didn't get a "pad on the back" from the users, but were instead met with nasty complaints over stuff. But we never took a single dollar for any of our work - not even when people were like "just take my cash already!". Because we wanted to make something usefull for the community and not try and profit from the work.
It might just be me, but that's how i remember the community to be and not the money machine i feel it's becoming today, where donations are starting to come in fixed amounts to gain certain "bonusses.

For some odd reason my Paypal just wont allow me to use it, keeps saying they believe i was compromised - i've done all they require of me but nothing has changed with allowing me to actually pay anything through it - so i've never been able to donate anything. This + the fact that i'm a poor student made me assist people when they needed help. That's why i helped you when you were trying to get "RunLikeHell" to work for some of your profiles (which were awesome btw, i say were because i haven't played wow since MOP actually came out).
Don't take it as a negative thread towards you Botanish, cause it sure as hell ain't meant like it

 

[kane5802]

I love how most of you a raging on this guy for just saying hes tired of seeing bott trains flying around kunlai summits or half ass profiles that dont work because as soon as a new profile comes out everyone takes it to another site and trys to take credit for it so he keeps his shit private so theres not a shitload of people running the same path as him i run my own profiles as well cause im not looking to join the bott trains out there fighting for the herbs while following 15 other botts

 

[soverine]

Stopping in just to say ty to those good profiles out there. I have donated for both Tuan's Monk and Gatherits Profiles, both are superb. I leveled with slight babysitting on Kicks Questing Profiles. I have used multiple daily profiles from others. I always do my research, of course, I read the first post: what is it intended to do, what is still in the works, what may cause issues, etc. And then I go a step further and read the pages to follow. I pay attention to folks who have 500+ posts because they are active contributors and I know they have their HB/GB set up properly. I'm still fairly knew to all this but a little common sense goes a long way.

Now I donated for the ones I did because they have amazing free profiles and their paid profiles/CC are even better.

I understand some profiles out there aren't optimized, but if you do your research and keep your eyes open on the forums you'll see who does amazing work, IE: Gatherit, Kick, HB Devs (in general), and Tuan.

I'm sure my post is way off topic, mainly just a quick thank you to those who do put in the time and accept donations.

Enjoy 5.1 guys!

 

[Botanist]

In a way i know what you mean. When we did the Lazyraider CC compilation, we sometimes didn't get a "pad on the back" from the users, but were instead met with nasty complaints over stuff. But we never took a single dollar for any of our work - not even when people were like "just take my cash already!". Because we wanted to make something usefull for the community and not try and profit from the work.
It might just be me, but that's how i remember the community to be and not the money machine i feel it's becoming today, where donations are starting to come in fixed amounts to gain certain "bonusses.

For some odd reason my Paypal just wont allow me to use it, keeps saying they believe i was compromised - i've done all they require of me but nothing has changed with allowing me to actually pay anything through it - so i've never been able to donate anything. This + the fact that i'm a poor student made me assist people when they needed help. That's why i helped you when you were trying to get "RunLikeHell" to work for some of your profiles (which were awesome btw, i say were because i haven't played wow since MOP actually came out).
Don't take it as a negative thread towards you Botanish, cause it sure as hell ain't meant like it

No offense taken bro. In fact it was you that helped improve my profiles along with others. And I'm not defending nor attacking anyones position. I am just pointing out the root of the problem. There are people that get great satisfaction from making something and donating it to the community for an occassional "at a boy", followed by a lot of "this shit doesn't work don't download it" but eventually their generosity will wane.

 

[Stinkbirdcat]

I have not done anything more than modify existing profiles or the occasional post to try to help people out), but I see a failing of the open profile community here being mostly due to poor forum organization.

Users are misleading or inconsistent with what's a request and what's work in progress and seem to not understand the difference between beta testing and just releasing a profile as "complete"

Forum Sections aren't consistent either. Many sections are too specific whereas others are too broad, and this leads to relying on a search engine that produces poor results due to the user issues above. This could be overcome with some TLC by a moderator, but unfortunately, most of their efforts are spent on greater endeavors like maintaining the bot and all of the individual projects that I agree are more important than making things easier to find or more accurately described.
I'd love to see the additional bot bases get subforums to better organize profiles instead of a single topic for the release, bug reports, Q/A, profile request setups that I see today. This is reflected in this topic since there are so many talented authors here that test their work and strive to present an amazing product, often for free.
Many times, these efforts aren't justly appreciated, so I want to say thank you to those better at coding than I that can make a product worthy of public release. A single voice complaining can often overshadow the thousand thankful users.
To the OP, Private testing and profile sharing is always going to be a big part of botting, since it's safer than the conga line known as public gatherbuddy, but doesn't mean we should dismiss less polished work just because it doesn't fit your needs well enough. Then you are that voice off complaint discouraging people from being better and adding to the problem you find fault with.

 

[Dark57]

OP obviously wasn't here for the fiasco where Bossland said that anyone can take other peoples work and use it however they please as long as they put a "Credit to xxxx" somewhere. A lot of coders were pretty pissed about that and decided not to write any more profiles to the public.

There is going to be a gap between new profile makers catching up to the way the more experienced profile makers were at, however there are plenty of decent profiles still out there.

As for aiding new profile makers, an updated Wikipage that's kept up to date with all new functions and better explanations of what they do would help immensely. The majority of my learning how to make profiles is by dissecting other profiles seeing as no one is bothering to aid the community in development. (See developers forum)

 

[rodxuxa]

WOW Bots Gatherbuddy & Honorbuddy

There is simply two types of people. Normal users, like me, and advanced users, that work in the computer business and/or can (or want to) handle programming stuff. Now check that site, nowhere there says i'm buying a half-assed product, but every time a clueless user ends up on the forum (lets not count the trolls or those without reading skills or finesse) theres always the famous:

Do it yourself.


Guess what, its what Botanist said, no one bought HB to do themselves the work, in a way. It's time to make things clear.

Make HB a full Bot, raise its price if needed be, with its precious customizations support (profiles), or organize the various talents here in a profile market that won't damage customers of your main product.

Becuase right now, everyone's pissed that HB is raking in cash and not controlling the situation, that much is apparent. Or let everyone burn and crash. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Ramakandra]

I actually sent an email to the devs about this and got 0 answer, my guess is they dont care as long they are selling new keys.

I recently bought HB and i really like it, it is exactly what i needed. A way to automate stuff i do daily and something i make my own scripts to do what i want.
However i must be in the %1 that uses HB for that and this are the authors of Profiles.

I work as a programmer for various programming languages outside of the US so i know that buying an HB license is in not cheap.

Now when a bot user sees in your homepage:
"Our WOW Bot Honorbuddy can help you in the following areas: Leveling by Grinding or Questing, Person-versus-Person Battles (PVP), Mining, Harvesting, Enchanting, Skinning, Engineering, Archaeology, Dungeons and so much more. "

He thinks its a program that he will click on "Mine ore" and it will do it for him, which we all know its not even close to the truth and after the MoP upgrade to the software (a marvelous achievement, considering all the change to WOW) 90% of the profiles simply stopped working or have some kind of problem.
As an example <MaxLevel>86</MaxLevel> on lvl 90 characters, its a very easy change but it wont work unless the user edits the .xml file.
We all know whats more likely to happen is that user will log into the forums and complain that "the bot doesn't work", when in reality it works perfectly and its just the profile that its not updated.

My proposed solution is this:
1) Register Profile authors with an ID
2) Every time a bot user uses a profile with that ID, register that user as using a profile of the author.
3) Each month the top X profile Authors with most users will receive a WOW game time card.

Its very important not to make the rewards monetary as it always brings the worst in people and since every author will pay a monthly subscription to WoW, a game time card is a perfect solution.

I came to the realization that this is the best solution because of FTW or "FightThisWay" :

http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorbuddy-forum/combat-routines/all-one/76780-fightthisway.html

Its the best Combat Routine at the moment for HB even better than Singular, since you don't have to modify the .cs files or know C# to modify the rotations or behaviors, it has its own very easy to learn language.

The problem is that the author told me not long ago:

"I'm beginning to lose interest - lots of changes requested, and only so much time. For instance, I spent all day today spiffing up 'just druid feral/guardian.'"

And if he stops developing that combat routine its very likely it will end up archived and not updated anymore like 99% of the profiles people contribute currently.

This way he now has a way to be recognized by other users and his time is rewarded and he is not being payed.

Thank for your time and i hope we can find a solution to have a successful honorbuddy for a long time!