What's new
By:
  • Visit Rebornbuddy
  • Visit Panda Profiles
  • Visit LLamamMagic
  • Visit Resources
  • Visit Downloads
  • Visit Portal

PVP Arena BOT PLZ

thank you ossirian and shakazara :)

@neodite:
I want to check something with you.
You are telling that the problem is the casting speed of HB compared to [other bot]
Fine, let's talk about it.
the 2 bots did the same rotation? put down the same totem? have the same value on recount in percentage for every spell? (like flame shock 20% for both, lava burst 25% for both ecc ecc)
Did they crit the same times?
You know we are talking about a 8% difference between the 2.
IF the rotation were exactly the same, the percentage of damage for each spell were the same and the numbers of crit were the same and still the second both did more overall DPS then HB over the same amount of time THEN you can tell the problem is in HB casting speed.
But, ofc, i doubt that's the case..
Also your shaman is Hit capped?
BTW did you setup ShamWoW or just runned it under default setting? default setting, am I right? :P
 
As i said, BOTH was ran as default.

Don't belive me there is a problem?

Go to a dummy, and watch it cast, then use the bot i used and WATCH how much faster it casts. It's a good quarter a second faster i would say.

You asked for proof there it is. Now you are more than welcome to prove me wrong.

Also it was a test of AVERAGE DPS. so hitcap and crit dont matter, because it was the same exact same toon/gear both times.

Both ran for 4 mins to get the AVERAGE!

Honestly you should try it instead of omg you wrong.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I believe that shamwow would be faster than any human. I also think that using the dummies in org doesn't mean anything.
 
Look at the screenshots. I have already proved it.

The fact is it was 2k DPS slower (That is a hell of alot, even more so on a low ilvl like my shaman)

Now im not blaming shamwow, it is a fantastic CC. Im blaming HB. (Because I get the same results on any class, on any CC)
 
I know your talking about lazy raider but the fact is as much as i hate it i had better results from mmomimic with pvp
 
neodite said:
Look at the screenshots. I have already proved it.

The fact is it was 2k DPS slower (That is a hell of alot, even more so on a low ilvl like my shaman)

Now im not blaming shamwow, it is a fantastic CC. Im blaming HB. (Because I get the same results on any class, on any CC)
Click to expand...

I think we have crossed over into fanboyism with some of these responses. Shamwow is great, but HB is slow on rotations. Your screen shots prove it, it's the same thing I have noticed on multiple characters.
 
Zacharybinx34 said:
I think we have crossed over into fanboyism with some of these responses. Shamwow is great, but HB is slow on rotations. Your screen shots prove it, it's the same thing I have noticed on multiple characters.
Click to expand...

Yes and this is just a low level ilvl toon. When i go to my main (Ret Paladin 372ilvl) it's MUCH larger than 2k gap.

I like the way people telling me im wrong withought bothering to do the tests themselves.
 
I don't know about DPS Neo but Gilderoy's Healing CC's are ridiculous. I run 2k rated bgs on my paladin and am always top heals, not only does it heal the crap out of stuff it also dispells superfast and quite frankly sh*ts all over people. So maybe there are just no good dps cc's I dunno but I can tell you that with a good CC such as Gilderoy's healing CC's you can easily be viable in PVP and in fact does things I dont think humanly possible
 
I'll vouch for Gilderoy's as well. The dispels are crazy fast , there might be issues with HB, but by the speed of Gilderoy's cc is just too fast. I mean the team I joined for arenas with it went up about 400 points from where they were because of the speed. I dont know about dps however , neodite does prove a point when it comes to this department, I just wouldnt say that it's the cc .
 
Donplayer813 said:
I'll vouch for Gilderoy's as well. The dispels are crazy fast , there might be issues with HB, but by the speed of Gilderoy's cc is just too fast. I mean the team I joined for arenas with it went up about 400 points from where they were because of the speed. I dont know about dps however , neodite does prove a point when it comes to this department, I just wouldnt say that it's the cc .
Click to expand...

Get him to make a Warrior CC and I'll test it.
 
I notice delays sometimes but there are a ton of variables. Hazz's resto druid CC is amazing. I literally know 2 spells a resto druid has. His CC heals ZA/ZG just fine with me in my PVP gear. It does awesome in BGs. I dont know how it's as fast as it is. Maybe because it doesn't have any movement or dps parts, just heals. I can watch my hunter and there are definately delays. If HB has some delays for some reason maybe they are just multiplied by a not so good CC.
 
I would love to see a basic arena bot put out.

Me and some buddies have been talking about doing three's for a while. Were probably going to start up next week, but as it stands it going to have to be given a helping hand.
 
I doubt a team of bots would be viable in arena, esp if afk. Maybe on lazyraider but you would need some good cc's. I would have no problem recommending Gilderoys for healing or Hazz's for druid but I dont know of any cc's that would co-ordinate crowd control on healers etc, which is critical in arena
 
Neo dude default shamwow is used for basic questing/survival it is not setup for raid rotations.
PQRotations ARE SETUP for a RAID ROTATION.

you are comparing Apples to Oranges and honestly all you are doing is a bitch fit and trolling the CC makers who go way out of there way with there free time to provide to the community.

SO UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE USEFUL FEEDBACK... SHUT THE [Bleep] <bleep> UP!!!
Cool you can do 5 min sessions compares between 2 bot base programs...
Why not show the detailed spell information once you click your toons name on recount so it shows percentage of dmg for each spell and while you are at it how about you make a spreadsheet showing the crit% for each spell.

That is feedback what i suggested if you are unwilling to do that and just want to troll the CC makers than please just stop. If you are unhappy with HB quit using it.
</bleep>
 
Last edited:
imdasandman said:
Neo dude default shamwow is used for basic questing/survival it is not setup for raid rotations.
PQRotations ARE SETUP for a RAID ROTATION.

you are comparing Apples to Oranges and honestly all you are doing is a bitch fit and trolling the CC makers who go way out of there way with there free time to provide to the community.

SO UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE USEFUL FEEDBACK... SHUT THE [Bleep] <bleep> UP!!!
Cool you can do 5 min sessions compares between 2 bot base programs...
Why not show the detailed spell information once you click your toons name on recount so it shows percentage of dmg for each spell and while you are at it how about you make a spreadsheet showing the crit% for each spell.

That is feedback what i suggested if you are unwilling to do that and just want to troll the CC makers than please just stop. If you are unhappy with HB quit using it.
</bleep>
Click to expand...

Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd Rage MUCH?!?!

jeepers bro. Take a chill pill. That's totally unnecessary.
 
neodite said:
Look at the screenshots. I have already proved it.

The fact is it was 2k DPS slower (That is a hell of alot, even more so on a low ilvl like my shaman)

Now im not blaming shamwow, it is a fantastic CC. Im blaming HB. (Because I get the same results on any class, on any CC)
Click to expand...
Thank goodness for the bolded portion, I was starting to feel the pressure of some abject scrutiny... lol

There seems to be a little confusion (not unanimous, but general) regarding the recent advances made regarding latency and spellcasting in HB and the effects it will have. The HB Core recently had a property added to get the Spell Cast Time Remaining. Honestly it could have been there for awhile, I only found it because a user on a system with high latency asked if I could look into any form of pre-casting. I had a conversation with Nesox who told me about CanCast() and later while looking at HB changes and enjoying a fine Kentucky Bourbon the next thing I notice is the time properties... voila! The system latency time has been available for quite awhile, so with those two values you can now easily pre-cast and negate the latency impacting your DPS, HPS, TPS, etc. for non-instants. However, while a property for GCD Time Remaining was also added, it was not providing any additional value beyond the existing information. CanCast() uses these properties to allow the next cast to being while the current one is still finishing up (due to latency.) However, since the GCD time remaining isn't accurate, this means that melee (which cast primarily instant attacks) won't enjoy the same performance increase that caster specs do until the release with the GCD fix Apoc referred to is available. The result is that CC's (such as ShamWOW) that don't utilize CanCast() as the primary gate in determining whether a spell can be cast, are capable of realizing the performance benefits of eliminating latency by factoring in that time (via the newly added properties) in their individual GCD and Spell Cast wait logic. CC's that don't use CanCast() and don't use these time values, won't perform any better (or worse.)

There are some downsides to this improvement. Some CC's that cast instants which result in a buff or debuff without a cooldown (think instant HoT/DoT like Shaman's Earth Shield or a Warlock's Corruption) will result in duplicate casts if they depend upon the latency to cause a delay sufficient for the target to realize the buff/debuff. I encountered this in testing with ShamWOW in the latency improvement release and addressed ensuring Earth Shield isn't cast more than once per second. Apoc confirmed it will potentially hit other CC's implemented for classes having spells meeting this criteria dependent upon their implementation. So while you may realize a spell casting throughput increase, the CC may require an update to avoid a DPS/HPS loss.

Now speaking specifically about ShamWOW, the design objective is to implement ability priorities suitable for all facets of game play giving equal importance to leveling, pvp, and raid environments for ranged dps, melee dps, and healing. So while it is intended to be extremely good at leveling or PVP, it's also designed to be good at raiding (one reason I wrote LazyRaider.) Ultimately a human should be able to beat HB in combat scenarios involving movement or that benefit from preparation (for ex: raid strategy to move to certain spot, casting a Shock so Focused Insight buff is available prior to needing it so GCD isn't wasted, etc.) I GREATLY appreciate those that have enjoyed using ShamWOW and recognize the time and effort that went into it, but in the end a L337 player should outperform it in anything other than a stationary fight against a Test Dummy, and should have beaten it handily at that before the latency api's impacting your spec are fully added to HB.

Hope that clears things up, or at a minimum doesn't muddy them further,
Bobby53
 
Last edited:
bobby53 said:
Thank goodness for the bolded portion, I was starting to feel the pressure of some abject scrutiny... lol

There seems to be a little confusion (not unanimous, but general) regarding the recent advances made regarding latency and spellcasting in HB and the effects it will have. The HB Core recently had a property added to get the Spell Cast Time Remaining. Honestly it could have been there for awhile, I only found it because a user on a system with high latency asked if I could look into any form of pre-casting. I had a conversation with Nesox who told me about CanCast() and later while looking at HB changes and enjoying a fine Kentucky Bourbon the next thing I notice is the time properties... voila! The system latency time has been available for quite awhile, so with those two values you can now easily pre-cast and negate the latency impacting your DPS, HPS, TPS, etc. for non-instants. However, while a property for GCD Time Remaining was also added, it was not providing any additional value beyond the existing information. CanCast() uses these properties to allow the next cast to being while the current one is still finishing up (due to latency.) However, since the GCD time remaining isn't accurate, this means that melee (which cast primarily instant attacks) won't enjoy the same performance increase that caster specs do until the release with the GCD fix Apoc referred to is available. The result is that CC's (such as ShamWOW) that don't utilize CanCast() as the primary gate in determining whether a spell can be cast, are capable of realizing the performance benefits of eliminating latency by factoring in that time (via the newly added properties) in their individual GCD and Spell Cast wait logic. CC's that don't use CanCast() and don't use these time values, won't perform any better (or worse.)

There are some downsides to this improvement. Some CC's that cast instants which result in a buff or debuff without a cooldown (think instant HoT/DoT like Shaman's Earth Shield or a Warlock's Corruption) will result in duplicate casts if they depend upon the latency to cause a delay sufficient for the target to realize the buff/debuff. I encountered this in testing with ShamWOW in the latency improvement release and addressed ensuring Earth Shield isn't cast more than once per second. Apoc confirmed it will potentially hit other CC's implemented for classes having spells meeting this criteria dependent upon their implementation. So while you may realize a spell casting throughput increase, the CC may require an update to avoid a DPS/HPS loss.

Now speaking specifically about ShamWOW, the design objective is to implement ability priorities suitable for all facets of game play giving equal importance to leveling, pvp, and raid environments for ranged dps, melee dps, and healing. So while it is intended to be extremely good at leveling or PVP, it's also designed to be good at raiding (one reason I wrote LazyRaider.) Ultimately a human should be able to beat HB in combat scenarios involving movement or that benefit from preparation (for ex: raid strategy to move to certain spot, casting a Shock so Focused Insight buff is available prior to needing it so GCD isn't wasted, etc.) I GREATLY appreciate those that have enjoyed using ShamWOW and recognize the time and effort that went into it, but in the end a L337 player should outperform it in anything other than a stationary fight against a Test Dummy, and should have beaten it handily at that before the latency api's impacting your spec are fully added to HB.

Hope that clears things up, or at a minimum doesn't muddy them further,
Bobby53
Bobby53
Click to expand...

Excellent, and most informative post Bobby.

Basically us melee are in a bad spot until the next HB release.

Until then, try to get by, and cross your fingers that the next release is sooner rather than later.
 
Last edited:
bobby53 said:
Thanks, but I hit saved prematurely.... revised after you quoted
Click to expand...

Edited my quote with the new one.

Bobby, do you by chance know if singular utilizes CanCast()? I'm hoping the warrior one does and will provide a dps increase with the next (hopefully soon) HB release.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top