Opinions on this beast machine!

[sifer]

Thanks alot fo the input. But then why do people insist on using VMware to protect their wow accounts?

 

[Croga]

About the Intels, like I said, they are BETTER or at least on the SAME level of the FX-8150/8350 when it comes to GAMING (A SINGLE INSTANCE OF THE GAME AT MAXIMUM SETTINGS), when it comes to multithreading, the FX wins over the other 2 Intels.

Bullcrap. All reviews state that whatever you do, the FX8350 is a bit slower than the 3470 and a lot slower than the 3570. Go read some.
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core CPU Review - HotHardware
AMD FX-8350 review | PC Gamer

and YES stock coolers ARE NOISY, you just can't say that a stock cooler (80mm fan at 5k+ RPM, it will run at 2-3k RPM while in IDLE, not while it's under 80%+ load and the CPU is burning, then it will start spinning as much as it can, high CPU usage on big CPUs, require a good cooler, no matter what you say here I just won't agree on anything else) will be silent, that's just impossible, as for the cooling, there are a lot of cheap and good coolers that will do the job. Temperatures? I think you miss the point here, Intels are WAY WAY WAY more hotter than an AMD, my FX is running at 43-46C under 80-90% load with a medium cooler, do I need to say more? While an Intel, will be at least 15C hotter...

Bullcrap again. My i5-2500K runs on stock cooler. On idle it runs at 2000RPM, on full load (as described earlier) it goes up to 3500RPM. You will never be able to hear it since the GPU cooler makes 10 times more noise. If you say it'll run 5k RPM you've obviously never used a stock cooler.

About the PSU, you miss a looooot of things about it, any system, above 350E would require at least 400W, like I said use Power Consumption Calculators, you will see for yourself..

I did use a calculator and as said; the i5 system I described comes in at 300W maximum power consumption. Oh, by the way, don't use the calculators of the PSU people, they have good reason to overrate your system. Use the independant ones and you'll see that there is no need for a big PSU.
ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Recommended Power Supply Wattage Calculator

but still a motherboard that costs 40-50E, I wouldn't go there ... at least for now I can't give any real statement here, but I just won't trust such expensive system on a cheap mobo/psu.

Yeah, because we all know that more expensive means better... Oh, wait, that's not true! Quality comes from quality, not from money. Also; the only reason why it would be "such expensive system" is because you use expensive stuff that you don't need.

Overclocking can and will increase the number of bots that you can run, and yes it is true that it reduces the lifetime of the CPU (It won't run for 8 years, it will run for 5 years, do you care? I don't, you'll make the CPU money like 50 times by then)

As stated; Overclocking will also increase the cost of your system both in initial purchase cost (since you then indeed need a different cooler and PSU) and in operating (since you're using way more electricity).

Figure this:
Power consumption = clockspeed * voltage.
This means that the power consumption will logarithmically rise when you overclock a CPU.

Example:
A review of the overclocking abilities of the FX8350 gave the following results:
Stock: 4200 Mhz, power consumption (total system): 240W
Maximum overclock: 4700Mhz, power consumption (total system): 334W
(compare: Power consumption of a Corei5 system, same GPU, RAM, HDD, etx: 141W)
That means that between a normal Corei5 and an overclocked FX8350 there's almost 200W difference! Over here in the Netherlands that means a difference in electricity bill alone of 5 cents per hour (or 146 euros per year assuming 8 hours per day). And that doesn't even include the extra price of cooling and the heavier PSU (another 100 euros). Assuming a lifespan of 1 year, you can spend 250 euros more on the Corei5 system (which would upgrade the CPU to a Corei7 and beat the performance of the FX8350 hands *and pants* down).
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core CPU Review - HotHardware

First, how do you exactly think that you are going to use the HDD from your Laptop on a Desktop PC? They are WAY different. Laptop HDDs are SLOW, it won't help you. For HDD like I said few posts ago, go for WD Black Caviar, they are very good and not expensive.

Although I don't agree with "WAY different" (since nowadays they have the exact same connectors) I do wholeheartedly agree that they are *NOT* the way to go. They are indeed deadly slow and will likely overheat in a situation like this, dieing at too young an age for a harddisk.

like I said the FX will run at 4200 MHz without any problem right out of the box. (After all that is GUARANTEED by AMD they advertise it as 3,6-4,2GHz)

That's because the CPU will clock itself to 4200Mhz automatically when it gets a heavy load. It's the stock speed, nothing special, not even called overclocking.

You need a GPU with a lot of memory like I mentioned already, it's important, just like the RAM, mine is Palit GTX 560 TI 2GB 256 bit, a single instance of wow (with minimum resolution 300x200 or something like that) takes about 60MB of its memory, so if you want to run 20x WoWs and assuming that your graphics card needs the same amount of memory to run WoW at this resolution, you would need 1,2GB of Memory on the GPU to run the 20x WoWs, my GPU costs around 250E (or at least that's the price that I bought it at, back in July)

Bullcrap. The memory on your Graphics Card (not the GPU; the GPU doesn't have any memory except for it's own cache which is still measured in single digit MBs) is used to build up the screen and to hold textures. Whether you run 1 WoW or 20, the amount of texture memory is the same. The memory needed to build up the screen is quite unimportant as well since it need only draw what is visible and what will be visible. Memory management on graphics cards is so different from main RAM memory management that you can't compare it at all. There is no possible situation where graphics card RAM is more important than GPU speed or main RAM.

120-200GB SSD would be more than enough for you (ASSUMING THAT YOUR WINDOWS IS NOT ON THE SSD), another option here is WD 10000 RPM VelociRaptor 250GB 64MB cache, it's as good as any other SSDs in this price range/quality, and it's mechanical.

180+ is enough as single drive with the OS on it. I use a 120GB myself and if I'd only bot WoW that would be enough (it would fit Windows + 1 WoW install, albeit barely)
I've used the Velociraptor before and it's an amazing harddisk. It's still a harddisk though. Performance isn't up to spec with the current generation of SSDs and it's performance peaks at sequential reads (large files). That's not necessarily what you need in gaming, especially when multitasking. Random reads are still, and always will be, the domain of SSDs.

Currently I have 120GB SSD that runs my OS and 500GB HDD, but I am not runing a lot of bots now, when I bought my PC I didn't have an HDD it was the SSD only and I was able to run 8+ Diablos without any problems from a single copy of the game while on HDD you would need a copy for each instance.

With this amount of bots, it's never a good idea to run off multiple copies. Running off 1 copy will make sure caching is optimized. Running off multiple copies is only useful if you spread the copies across multiple devices so that loading isn't limited to one device. Especially on harddisks I would advise strongly against multiple copies since the mechanical read process is your biggest bottleneck and multiple copies means more mechanical read time.

 

[Croga]

Btw there is something else that you should keep in mind, atm a WoW+HB are using an average of 5-8%(wow is 3-4% and HB is 1-2 sometimes 5+%(for a few secs)) of my CPU I am not sure if it's a glitch that I'm having or whatever, but I remember that a friend used to hold 7x WoWs+HBs at like 20% CPU usage with AMD Phenom 1090T 6core, that was in Cataclysm tho... so I am not sure if my readings are correct because my PSU sucks, and it's causing me some troubles.... if there's anyone who's using FX-8150 please tell me how much CPU usage you get from 1 WOW+HB...

On my current processor (Corei7 2.2Ghz Quadcore with HT) it's about the same but depends a *lot* on where you are. Outland is 3%+1%, Pandaria is 5%+1% (wow/HB). So both the FX8350 and the Corei5-3570 should be able to run 20+ instances of this all.

You also need to know something about the Virtual Machines, whatever you run in there, it will use almost 2x the CPU usage that it needs out of the VM. For istance, I use VMs to run multiple SWTORs, a VM runs SWTOR at about 25-30% CPU Usage, while without the VM it runs at around 15% CPU Usage.

^^ this. Main reason to never use a VM (well, except for SWTOR since you haven't much choice there ).

 

[sifer]

Are you agaisnt oveclocking croga? Did the MB i suggested be enough? it supports 32 gb ram.

 

[Darkbound]

They will be on their limit with 20 WoWs, anyway we stopped talking about 8350 the moment he said that he can't find it in Norway.

Yes I used a stock cooler, the one that I got with the FX-8150, I changed it on the third day, and no at least my GPU isn't noisier, I can barely hear it, unless it goes at 50%+ fan speed but that happens only if it gets at 65-70C which again, happens rarely. Anyway, there is a difference from cooler to cooler, maybe Intel has better stock coolers

Anyway, whatever I am saying it's from what I experienced (but mostly from what I learned in the net, I am fairly new to the Hardware depths) I am in no way a Hardware Guru, I saw many threads across the forums saying that the 8150 is better when it comes to multithreading..

You need multiple copies when you are botting with Diablo (off an HDD) because you just can't run a second instance of the game from the same copy, at least not with a slow HDD.

About the video memory, well I don't know but wether I see the WoW windows or not it uses the same amount of memory currently at 420MB with 3x WoWs and some other shits going on, but atm the WoWs are in the background while Firefox is on top of everything...

That's because the CPU will clock itself to 4200Mhz automatically when it gets a heavy load. It's the stock speed, nothing special, not even called overclocking.

That's if the feature is enabled in the BIOS, I disabled it and just set it on a static 4100 MHz atm.

I checked the graph about power consumption in one of the links that you gave, so if it's an Intel then maybe a less Watt PSU would do the job since obviosly they require less power. And I guess I really was wrong about some things ... and yea you were absolutely right about the PSU (I was judging from an AMD perspective as this is what I am using so I am sorry for the confusions that I have caused here)

About the MB, like I said, I would go for something a bit more expensive just because of the "psychological factor" would you trust your Porsche Boxster to an oil filter that costs 15E for example? I know that expensive doesn't mean good or quaility..

Again for the PSU, you are right when it comes to an Intel based system.

Edit: I'm starting to think about switching to Intel haha, I was thinking of an upgrade anyway, and the power saving is just another plus. Well then, if we have to look it from this perspective.. just put a little extra and get a little better Intel and OPA OPA INTEL STYLE.

 

[sifer]

Is buying/using a 110 euro water cooler, justified on a i5 to clock it and get more bots. Or should I just save the money and maybe save it for rig number 2?

 

[Darkbound]

It's not, he said that, his i5-2500k is running on a stock cooler without problems. you don't need that 110euro water cooler..

 

[sifer]

This will be the final system unless you guys can comment more on suggestions.

MSI B75MA-P45, Socket-1155 (is this an "ok" MB?) 73 euro
Intel? Core i5-3570K Processor 227 euro
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB DDR3 97 euro
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 32GB CL10 187 euro
OCZ SSD Agility 3 Series 2.5" 240GB 200 euro
Corsair CX 500W PSU 77 euro
APLUS Case CS-500 Midi Tower Sort 46 euro


Total : 907 euro.

PS: still need a cd/dvd/blu-ray rom,any suggestions ? cheapest one i guess?
Do i need to buy a windows 7 professional or something? or its possible to use a fake key without getting assraped by "this copy of windows is not genuine" ?

 

[Darkbound]

OCZ Agility 3 - NO NO NO! I have the same one.

Like I said go for the VelociRaptor or OCZ Vertex 4 (one of the best SSDs, or at least was 2-3 months ago)

 

[sifer]

the vertex 4 costs 50 euro more, whats the advantage of taking that over the agility 3 series?

You guys keep talking about running 1 copy of diablo/wow. But how do you do this without vmware?

 

[razer]

Yea OCZ 4 are the best out atm people have been saying, and AMD I would not go for them they maybe cheap only due to the fact they are crap...Last month they fired another 20 of there men due too the fact they cant research no more and are going broke...lol ATM I am in the process of building a REAL BEAST OF A MACHINE 2 Intel xeon's at 3.6ghz each 64gig ram and alot lot more. I run 20 bots constant with VMWARE on SSD's and a WM Station has 1 wow each on them. so running 18 vm stations on 1 pc

 

[Darkbound]

the vertex 4 costs 50 euro more, whats the advantage of taking that over the agility 3 series?

You guys keep talking about running 1 copy of diablo/wow. But how do you do this without vmware?

You just start multiple instances from the same .exe... the advantage of course is that its, better and faster.. I have agility 3 120GB, and I don't like it.

 

[.InQz]

I went for the AMD fx 8150. Its 8 cores so you can easily run 6 instances of wow + bots if you would like to. Also its cheap as fuck

 

[Darkbound]

Yea OCZ 4 are the best out atm people have been saying, and AMD I would not go for them they maybe cheap only due to the fact they are crap...Last month they fired another 20 of there men due too the fact they cant research no more and are going broke...lol ATM I am in the process of building a REAL BEAST OF A MACHINE 2 Intel xeon's at 3.6ghz each 64gig ram and alot lot more. I run 20 bots constant with VMWARE on SSD's and a WM Station has 1 wow each on them. so running 18 vm stations on 1 pc

And what's the point of 20x VMs? Nevertheless I just can't imagine how someone can handle 20+ realms? I mean checking them all, selling the mats and stuff takes way too much time..

 

[sifer]

U can run multiple wow from 1 exe? Wow! Not same as d3 so 120 ssd is enough then?

 

[Teveel]

Yes you can run multiple instances of wow from one install.

Also a bit off topic but I don't know why razer thinks its a good thing if AMD go broke as then Intel won't have anyone to keep them in check and they can have a monopoly on prices (hint: its not a good thing).

 

[Darkbound]

U can run multiple wow from 1 exe? Wow! Not same as d3 so 120 ssd is enough then?

You can run multiple instances of D3 from one exe... you just can't do it if your HDD is slow, that's why we r telling u that SSD can handle this.

If that's allthat you're going to do (WoW+D3) it *MAY* be enough, but what if it's not? What if you need few extra GBs? What if you decide todo something else in the future? I did buy 120GB and like I said, it was a mistake, it wasn't enough for me.

 

[Dark57]

VMware is used so you can disguise your information, its an added level of security. More for paranoid botters but then again since we can't ever know what Blizz does to detect bots if you're going for gold to cash it never hurts to be extra careful.

 

[sifer]

So vmware is kinda useless? How about v p n hide myass? Also useless i guess if not using vmware?

 

[Darkbound]

I really don't see the point in VMs, you will hide your Hardware ID, with what? A virtual hardware ID, that imo will be just as suspicious as it would normally be, and you won't be able to run 20 WoWs with this setup (CPU) if you use VMs. Reasons are explained few posts ago.