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Opinions on this beast machine!

The brand new AMD FX chips keep pace in single thread applications to any I5 processors and can even match I7's in multiple tests. People dissing on AMD aren't familiar with their new chips. The 8350 is a very nice chip for the price.

The only reason I would consider using an nvidia card over an AMD card is for Physx, which doesn't matter for wow. Both companies just released new drivers in the last month that have increased FPS by up to 15% in most modern games. Going with either will be a fine choice.
 
Just now I saw that AMD has a new series, didn't know that 8350 exists. :) It seems like it's at the same price of the 8150 (what it was) and it would be even a better option compared to the i5-3570k, FX is also highly clockable and unlocked.

And it's wrong to say FX vs Overclocked 3570k, since FX can be easily overclocked aswell, with proper cooling, motherboard and PSU you can easily go at 5GHz(I was able to boot up at 4,7 GHz without touching the voltage much, and with a mid range air cooler) with the FX-8150 in "Home conditions" I guess that it would be even easier for the 8350.
 
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I disagree with most of the things in the previous post.
I'll start with the RAM, 32GB is NOT an overkill when you're going for BOTTING and RAM is CHEAP CHEAP AND CHEAP even the top ones!!!! If you're going for botting YOU NEED RAM R A M, back in the days when I was botting in Diablo 3, 1 Diablo used to take between 1 and 1,2GB of my RAM (after a few hours starts off at 600-700 MB and builds up), so 16GB will be quite low, if you want to run a lot of bots on multiple games.
Agreed; 16GB->32GB is probably the most cost effective improvement over my suggestion.
About the CPU, I didn't see him anywhere saying that he won't overclock, I'd def go for a K version, since overclocking gives your CPU extra power, which means what? Yeah more power to fill your RAM.
Overclocking leads to instability leads to downtime leads to... big nono.
It also leads to an exponential increase in power consumption and heat generation. Which means higher cost. Money that is better spent on a second system.
DEFINATELY DONT BUY MB THAT COSTS 60-70 EU or something like that for a good system. Motherboard and PSU are one of the most important parts, I don't know why people ignore them so much...
I've been running on Asrock's 50-60 euro boards since they first started. As said; Asrock is easier to install than top-end brands, is just as stable and lasts just as long. They also have better service departments (When Asus' BIOS update wrecked my board, they said "touch luck". When Asrock's did they asked me to come by their office and they exchanged it then and there.). I see no reason whatsoever to fork over 200+ euros for something that doesn't add anything at all to my experience.
Stock coolers are NEVER ENOUGH, and they are NOISY! I mean, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY NOISY and annoying with this 80mm fans, that run at 5-7k RPM, it will just fuck your mind, especially in the night if you are trying to sleep in the same room. There are very good cheap Air coolers that can do a better job, and save you the noise.
It's been a very long time since stock coolers were noisy. I've been using stock coolers since Intel had The Great Improvement with the Core2Duo and ever since there isn't anything that will improve the noise by more then about 1.5 or 2 dB. The fan usually runs at a leisurely 3000-3500RPM which is up there with the best of them. If you want to improve on that, be prepared to spend an extra 50 euros or so.
About the GPU, AMD may be cheapest, and it may work good, but, nVidia would work best with Intel, just like AMD video cards and AMD RAM works best with AMD CPU.
Anything to back up that claim? Leme guess; No because it's nonsense.
PSU, most systems in that range would require 500-600W, so you need at least 750W of a decent brand (to the previous post, 350W? are you insane man, my 7 year old PC was running with 250W PSU..) use Google to find Power Consumption Calculator and you can calculate how much power you would need, for my system I need a minimum of 500W (AMD FX-8150, Palit GTX 560 Ti, 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 MHz, Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, OCZ Agility 3 120GB, WD Green 7200 RPM, 500GB, 64MB Cache) even if the 500W is the minimum, you'd like to have something extra, just in case... go for Antec, Cooler Master, Corsair, OCZ..
Leme see....
CPU: 95W maximum
GPU: 100W maximum (This is the main power hog by the way. Going for a mid-range instead of a high-end GPU will save you about 200W of power drainage)
Rest: Peanuts
Total: About 300W maximum
Why on earth would you need a 750W PSU for that?
350 is enough. 500 is more comfortable and a tad bit more efficient.

I do wholeheartedly agree with: Go with a good brand! I can't stress that enough. A bad PSU will wreck your entire PC!

HDD/SSD again it depends on how many bots you plan to run, if you plan to run a shit load of bots, then you need an SSD (again it depends on the game)... If you want to run multiple Diablos then you would need it. Diablo is a very HDD dependant game and if you are running on a normal HDD, after 5-6 instances your HDD will simply be on its maximum (yes you can make multiple copies of the game, that won't help), while SSDs are 5 faster, they don't have to spin with 7-10k RPMs, it's better and easier for the SSD to run multiple copies of a game. If you don't want an SSD and you don't plan to run more than 6-8 Diablos, then you can get 2 separate HDDs...
Okay, given. I don't have much experience with Diab botting so if that really takes so much out of the storage then defo go for an SSD.
 
The brand new AMD FX chips keep pace in single thread applications to any I5 processors and can even match I7's in multiple tests. People dissing on AMD aren't familiar with their new chips. The 8350 is a very nice chip for the price.
Running multiple bots is, by definition, multithreaded. AMD FX chips don't even come close to any i5 in that regard.

A quote from a review of the FX8350:
"Costing the same and providing up to 30% power advantage, the i5 3470 is a far better choice"
That's a comparison to the 3470. Using a 3570, the 8350 will never catch up.
Game benchmarks all say that the 3470 is slightly (3-9%) faster than the 8350.

True; the current line of FX' isn't as bad as it used to be but it still can't compete with the Intel CPUs. Even more importantly: The FX8350 uses a *LOT* more electricity and generates a lot more heat because of that. Which means:
- Bigger PSU = more expensive
- Better cooling = more expensive
- Higher energy bill = more expensive

At this time: No, AMD is not an option.

(unless you want to go for the ultimate low-end system; for about 250 euros you can build a system with an AMD APU which will run up to 5~10*WoW+HB and will run on a 200W PSU)
 
Sifer, if you give us more details on how many bots you are trying to run we can offer more specific advice. Are you building a machine to bot on, or a slave machine to bot? Saying lots is relative, lots to me could mean 6 where as lots to you could be 20. If you are looking to run a specific number of bots I would gladly customize a system that will not only power through all of your botting but also give you extra power to do whatever you wanted on it, if that is your intent.

Something that I cannot stress enough about PSU's to new do-it yourself guys is to check the connections. CHECK THE CONNECTIONS. CHECK THE CONNECTIONS. If you do not have enough connections on your PSU to connect all of your hardware, you have a problem. If you your connectors are not the right size, they will not fit. Normally you don't have to worry to much about this when getting higher end PSU's but if you try to cut costs, you have to do your research. Also its recommended to run 100-200W more than your system is needed so you aren't maxing your PSU which can shorten its longevity.

As for Mobo's, I'm a gigabyte guy. I love my Gigabyte Assassin 2 LGA 2011 mobo.

@Croga, Overclocking can be done without causing system instability. CPU's are turned down from their safe fastest speed for the purpose of longevity, there are plenty of overclock websites that will verify what I said. Overclocking too much can cause instability, but in general if done correctly will just trade longevity with overall speed. Whether or not you knew this I do not know, however the blanket statement that "overclocking is bad mmmkay" is incorrect.

Also, Intel and nVidia were in business together for a while. They have fallen on the sword in that agreement but their previous arrangements did indeed yield better compatibility and slightly increased speeds. Nowadays it doesn't matter so much, but in the past it did make a small difference. AMD and ATI which is just AMD now still have that compatibility, but it is not enough to warrant the switch.
 
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Sifer, if you give us more details on how many bots you are trying to run we can offer more specific advice. Are you building a machine to bot on, or a slave machine to bot? Saying lots is relative, lots to me could mean 6 where as lots to you could be 20. If you are looking to run a specific number of bots I would gladly customize a system that will not only power through all of your botting but also give you extra power to do whatever you wanted on it, if that is your intent.

Something that I cannot stress enough about PSU's to new do-it yourself guys is to check the connections. CHECK THE CONNECTIONS. CHECK THE CONNECTIONS. If you do not have enough connections on your PSU to connect all of your hardware, you have a problem. If you your connectors are not the right size, they will not fit. Normally you don't have to worry to much about this when getting higher end PSU's but if you try to cut costs, you have to do your research. Also its recommended to run 100-200W more than your system is needed so you aren't maxing your PSU which can shorten its longevity.

As for Mobo's, I'm a gigabyte guy. I love my Gigabyte Assassin 2 LGA 2011 mobo.

@Croga, Overclocking can be done without causing system instability. CPU's are turned down from their safe fastest speed for the purpose of longevity, there are plenty of overclock websites that will verify what I said. Overclocking too much can cause instability, but in general if done correctly will just trade longevity with overall speed. Whether or not you knew this I do not know, however the blanket statement that "overclocking is bad mmmkay" is incorrect.

Also, Intel and nVidia were in business together for a while. They have fallen on the sword in that agreement but their previous arrangements did indeed yield better compatibility and slightly increased speeds. Nowadays it doesn't matter so much, but in the past it did make a small difference. AMD and ATI which is just AMD now still have that compatibility, but it is not enough to warrant the switch.

I dont know how to explain this in a manner that will be comprehensable. Since im not really good at explaining.

But I am trying to build a machine, a best bang for the buck machine. Lots of bots means 15-20+.

So here is what im trying to figure out now. Lets say i have 2-3k euro to spend. Here are my choices
A. 1 giga machine that will run 20-30 bots.
B. 2x medium machines that will run 40+ bots.

If prices are the same on both, I would choose the 2x medium machines.

But I doubt that is possible because I would need to buy all components for the other machine too(choice B).

What I need is a machine that can run 20-30+ if possible, on a 2k budget.
Slave machine only for botting 24/7 as much as possible.
 
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Prices in Norway just so you guys get an idea of how much this beast is gonna cost me.

CPU
Intel? Core i5-3570K Processor 227 euro
Intel? Core i5-3570 Processor 213 euro
AMD FX-8150 8-Core Processor 194 euro

GPU
EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB PhysX CUDA PCI-Express 3.0, "ForTheWin", GDDR5, DVI-D+DVI-I, native-HDMI, DisplayPort 415 euro
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB DDR3 97 euro

MB
ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77, Socket-1155 234 euro
Gigabyte G1.Assassin2, Socket-2011 373 euro
We dont have asrock :S
 
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So here is what im trying to figure out now. Lets say i have 2-3k euro to spend. Here are my choices
A. 1 giga machine that will run 20-30 bots.
B. 2x medium machines that will run 40+ bots.

If prices are the same on both, I would choose the 2x medium machines.

But I doubt that is possible because I would need to buy all components for the other machine too(choice B).

What I need is a machine that can run 20-30+ if possible, on a 2k budget.

Let's look at it like this:
A medium machine that will run 20 bots will set you back:
Motherboard (Any cheap Socket1155, MSI, Gigabyte, Asus): 75
CPU (i5 3570K): 225
GPU (AMD 7750): 100
Memory (16GB): 75
PSU (500W decent brand): 100
Case (any cheapass case): 50
SSD (180-250GB): 150
Total: under € 1000

Whatever you do to that machine, it won't increase the number of bots it will run significantly. Spend € 2000 and you might run 30 bots although I think it'll more likely be 25. For that same € 2000 you can buy 2 of those medium machines and run 40 bots.

You could even go:
Motherboard (Any cheap FM1): 75
CPU: AMD A10: 100
GPU: None!
Memory (16GB): 75
PSU (350W): 75
Case (Any cheap): 50
HDD (320GB+): 50
Total: under € 500
This system will run 10 bots easily, maybe more. It's running costs are very low, though, since it can get by with about 250W total. This means that your total bot farm will be more scalable.

If you were to go Top System:
Motherboard (Z77): 250
CPU (i7 3930K): 550
GPU (AMD 7990): 1000
Memory: 150
PSU (1000W+): 150
SSD (2*180): 300
Total: 2400
This system will run 30 bots. I don't think it'll run 40.
 
The CPU is defo the bottleneck, How about and overclocked i5 with watercooling? Can this increase the cap on bots per pc?
 
MSI B75MA-P45, Socket-1155 73 euro
Intel? Core i5-3570K Processor 227 euro
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB DDR3 97 euro
Kingston DDR3 HyperX 1600MHz 16GB 84 euro
Corsair CX 500W PSU 77 euro
APLUS Case CS-500 Midi Tower Sort 46 euro


Total : 606 euro.

So this machine will run 20+ wow?
 
MSI B75MA-P45, Socket-1155 73 euro
Intel? Core i5-3570K Processor 227 euro
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB DDR3 97 euro
Kingston DDR3 HyperX 1600MHz 16GB 84 euro
Corsair CX 500W PSU 77 euro
APLUS Case CS-500 Midi Tower Sort 46 euro


Total : 606 euro.

So this machine will run 20+ wow?
I'm afraid not. I'm afraid that system won't run anything besides it's own BIOS since it's lacking an HDD/SSD ;)
Other than that it looks good. And it looks like I wasn't too far off with the prices (since I was quoting approximate Dutch prices ;))

Of course the number of bots it will run is always a guestimate but in reference:
My i5-2500k, 8GB, SSD, AMD 6830 didn't have any trouble with:
- 4 * WoW+HB
- 1 * Diab3 + bot
- 1 * WoT + bot
- 1 * SWTOR + bot

So with a faster proc and more RAM you should be able to run 20*HB+WoW
 
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Hehe, I did not include the HDD, because I have a spare one from my laptop ^^

But, with clocking the cpu with a corsair h100 cooler. I would be then able to get more bots right? Another thing is that 20+ wow bots is like 20 gb ram :P.

So i think i might need 32 gb :P????
 
You missed to say what games and how many bots on those games you plan to use, because 3x WoW bots = 1x Diablo bot (or something like that), so it's still very dependant. About the Intels, like I said, they are BETTER or at least on the SAME level of the FX-8150/8350 when it comes to GAMING (A SINGLE INSTANCE OF THE GAME AT MAXIMUM SETTINGS), when it comes to multithreading, the FX wins over the other 2 Intels. FX-8150 can be clocked at 4200 MHz "right out of the box", and YES stock coolers ARE NOISY, you just can't say that a stock cooler (80mm fan at 5k+ RPM, it will run at 2-3k RPM while in IDLE, not while it's under 80%+ load and the CPU is burning, then it will start spinning as much as it can, high CPU usage on big CPUs, require a good cooler, no matter what you say here I just won't agree on anything else) will be silent, that's just impossible, as for the cooling, there are a lot of cheap and good coolers that will do the job. Temperatures? I think you miss the point here, Intels are WAY WAY WAY more hotter than an AMD, my FX is running at 43-46C under 80-90% load with a medium cooler, do I need to say more? While an Intel, will be at least 15C hotter...

About the PSU, you miss a looooot of things about it, any system, above 350E would require at least 400W, like I said use Power Consumption Calculators, you will see for yourself.. If you're using a mechanical hard drive, the initial spin requires a lot of power.. as for the MB, don't go for sabertooths or crosshairs or whatever, that's gaming and high end overclocking stuff, unless you aim for that, you don't need it, you don't need to overclock at 6GHz (I guess?) but still a motherboard that costs 40-50E, I wouldn't go there ... at least for now :) I can't give any real statement here, but I just won't trust such expensive system on a cheap mobo/psu. Overclocking can and will increase the number of bots that you can run, and yes it is true that it reduces the lifetime of the CPU (It won't run for 8 years, it will run for 5 years, do you care? I don't, you'll make the CPU money like 50 times by then)

For the CPU, I'm sticking to 8150/8350 if we are in this price range, if we go higher then my hands are for them Intels, but for now I'll hold on to the AMDs, it's just better for multithreading, I am saying this for 5th time now, Gaming, one game, single instance of a game def Intel... Multithreading, botting, if we stick to this price range (~200 eu) then I'm all for the AMD.

P.S. Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler Review - X-bit labs a very good and cheap cooler, all you need is just one extra fan to do push-pull.

Edit: at the time of writing this post I didn't realize that there was a 4th page here, so let me finish....

First, how do you exactly think that you are going to use the HDD from your Laptop on a Desktop PC? They are WAY different. Laptop HDDs are SLOW, it won't help you. For HDD like I said few posts ago, go for WD Black Caviar, they are very good and not expensive.

If you want to run a lot of bots, go for 32GB RAM, no question about that.

20 WoW Bots are less than 20GB RAM, 1 WoW bot is around 700-800MB (including HB)

Corsair H100 is not needed, unless you want extreme overclocking, check the cooler that I posted above, however if you want a really good cooler, check Noctua NH-D14, cheaper than the H100 and almost as good, water coolers, too much trouble.
 
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What motherboard would you suggest then? I think overclocking is fun :P So I will go for a water cooling system so that I can overlock. But will the fx8150 handle it without taking damage? The 8350 is not available in norway yet. I was thinking or running lots of wow instances. Btw I thought wow took more resource than d3 ?

If the laptop HDD wont work, i guess i will buy a ssd:S
What would be a decent graphics card for the system?


I really think overcloking is fun :P as long as its not that supercomplicated xD
 
Overclocking is not complicated, it just takes time till you find the right spot, it's different for each system. The laptop HDD won't work unless it has SATA 3 connectors, but I still really doubt that. Again H100 IS NOT needed for your system just think about it, the CPU costs 200, the cooler costs 115 EU(or something like that), whats the point in that? Damaging the CPU is entirely up to you, if you set too high voltages or whatever, that's something that I haven't done yet, I don't feel comfortable doing it (ye we can say that I am scared to touch there) but, like I said the FX will run at 4200 MHz without any problem right out of the box. (After all that is GUARANTEED by AMD they advertise it as 3,6-4,2GHz)

About the MB, hehe this is funny, I speak bad for the cheap MBs, but the fact is that I am not that familiar with the MBs (brands, models) like I said I just won't trust an expensive system to a cheap MB/PSU (that's the psychological factor).

Another thing to know about the MBs is that, even if it's nowhere in their specifications they also use a lot of power from the PSU, my GPU should use around 150W, the CPU around 125W, then why the Power Consumption Calculators say 500+W?:) A friend of mine who's been working with PCs for the last like 20 years told me about that, the MBs also need power, I am sorry, I am not being disrespectful or trying to insult someone, 350W-500W PSUs WON'T BE ENOUGH for any system that costs more than 350-400E

You need a GPU with a lot of memory like I mentioned already, it's important, just like the RAM, mine is Palit GTX 560 TI 2GB 256 bit, a single instance of wow (with minimum resolution 300x200 or something like that) takes about 60MB of its memory, so if you want to run 20x WoWs and assuming that your graphics card needs the same amount of memory to run WoW at this resolution, you would need 1,2GB of Memory on the GPU to run the 20x WoWs, my GPU costs around 250E (or at least that's the price that I bought it at, back in July)

120-200GB SSD would be more than enough for you (ASSUMING THAT YOUR WINDOWS IS NOT ON THE SSD), another option here is WD 10000 RPM VelociRaptor 250GB 64MB cache, it's as good as any other SSDs in this price range/quality, and it's mechanical.
Currently I have 120GB SSD that runs my OS and 500GB HDD, but I am not runing a lot of bots now, when I bought my PC I didn't have an HDD it was the SSD only and I was able to run 8+ Diablos without any problems from a single copy of the game while on HDD you would need a copy for each instance.
 
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-Is this a good enough gpu Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB DDR3 ? If ever the Vram gets too low,will adding another gpu make up for it?

-Noctua NH-D14 costs 100 euro :P
water cooling costs 140 euro.

-What 600 watt psu then? or should i go 700?

-Shouldnt I keep my OS in the SSD?
Western Digital? VelociRaptor 250GB 110 euro +/-
I guess I will be using vmware so a big ssd wont be necessary?
 
Why would you use VMWare? Noctua NH-D14 shouldnt cost more than 75 euro it costs 66.5 euro here... if you want the OS on your SSD then you need a 200ish GB SSD(or the VelociRaptor, usually mechanical is better), 120GB won't be enough (personal experience!).

About the GPU, yes adding another GPU will make up for it... you can even see in the specifications of this specific GPU that they recommend at least 400W and that GPU costs 90EU here so I think I was pretty much right that 400-500W PSUs are for the ~400euro systems..
 
VMware so i can hide my hardware id and mac adress?
 
I don't really see the point in doing that, as for them it will be more than obvious that you are running the WoWs on a VM, and who would play WoW on a VM? Anyway.. If you aren't going to buy SSD+HDD and only SSD, trust me, 120GB won't be enough either get a 200+GB SSD, or the VelociRaptor, it doesn't matter if you'll be making linked clones or whatever, you will need the space.


Btw there is something else that you should keep in mind, atm a WoW+HB are using an average of 5-8%(wow is 3-4% and HB is 1-2 sometimes 5+%(for a few secs)) of my CPU I am not sure if it's a glitch that I'm having or whatever, but I remember that a friend used to hold 7x WoWs+HBs at like 20% CPU usage with AMD Phenom 1090T 6core, that was in Cataclysm tho... so I am not sure if my readings are correct because my PSU sucks, and it's causing me some troubles.... if there's anyone who's using FX-8150 please tell me how much CPU usage you get from 1 WOW+HB...

Anyway if everything is allright with me then, I doubt that you'll be able to run 20+ WoWs with the FX-8150, I would also ask someone who has an Intel that's within the range of the FX to share his experience regarding this... soooo if this is correct, you will need a better CPU, which means a higher model of Intel.

You also need to know something about the Virtual Machines, whatever you run in there, it will use almost 2x the CPU usage that it needs out of the VM. For istance, I use VMs to run multiple SWTORs, a VM runs SWTOR at about 25-30% CPU Usage, while without the VM it runs at around 15% CPU Usage.

Edit: I just checked on a friends PC that uses 4cores APU , wow+bot uses about 25% of his CPU, so please someone who is using an Intel CPU that's near the price range of the FX-8150/8350 give out your details, how much CPU usage you get from 1 wow+hb, either blizzard changed something in the game, or it's very CPU dependant, as I am pretty sure that, it used lower...

So, on the PC with the FX, I managed to get the CPU Usage of the WoW down to 2-3% (decreased the FPS down to 33), on my laptop (it uses Intel i5-480M, 2 cores 4 threads) it uses an average of 13-15%, and on my friends PC about 20% (WoW Only), I guess everything is allright with me but still I would like someone else to say something on this question.
 
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