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no partial refunds for banned accounts in EU

frosticus

frosticus

Community Developer
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
2,930
apparently, i should mind my own business.
 
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1) We are not lawyers
2) Law in EU is hard, because EU is not like USA - Every country have different law
3) In my country, whole EULA shouldn´t be applicable, because in some parts it is in conflict with law
4) But even if Blizzard have no right to Ban EU accounts, refuse refund etc. you need go to the court with it and as you can imagine, court cost more than new WoW account :)
 
a company's refund policy has nothing to do with laws. They can choose to give refund or not, its up to them.
 
imnotnew said:
a company's refund policy has nothing to do with laws. They can choose to give refund or not, its up to them.
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28baa44e3c8afcb5354f2614ba5c055b.jpg
 
3) In my country, whole EULA shouldn´t be applicable, because in some parts it is in conflict with law
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im interested, im sure everyone else would love to know,

which country, and can you post the law that states that?

i think it would stop some of the guessing if this information was gathered. but honestly, with the PMs im getting, it wouldnt help. 'because i heard it on the forums' seems to be enough to convince anyone.
 
I don´t know about other countries, but in my country problem is with (+other parts) "(1) modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of a World of Warcraft installation;" because law in my country allows me to modify software, if I have license for it. In our law system, EULA can´t forbid you something, that is allowed in law.

Another thing is that every agreement must be written in my official language or I must be fully able to understand it and since it is not written in my official language and I'm not so fluent in English, that is another reason why EULA is not valid for me.

And if I remember correctly, there is lawsuit Bossland vs Blizz about validity of EULA for end customer.

I wouldn´t discuss it more, since none of us is lawyer
 
@trix we are both on the same side of the coin, im US, you are EU, but the same side.

and when i 'argue' a side, im really just hunting for info, rather than trying to beat the other side.

so it makes me wonder. what does it say about the lawyers who wrote the terms if half of it doesnt apply. its their one job to make sure the terms exist, cover blizz's ass and is legal binding. is there no governing body that checks those things? and if so, wouldnt it have been in blizzards best interest to check and double check?

i think one of the points that is seldom addressed, blizzards terms are voluntary, its like the house rule of not bringing a gun into a church or school. sure, guns are protected with the bill of rights, but entering into an agreement is voluntary, and you are 'agreeing to follow the rules'

again, US here.

it just seems ridiculous that a billion dollar company hasnt got the sense to make sure their lawyers are doing lawyery things. what we need here is a contract lawyer who bots. to come set us straight.
 
Problem with EU is different law in every country. I don't doubt that EULA is perfectly correct in some countries, but may have problem in others. Right now, EU have 28 members, but some countries in Europe are not part of EU. Every country have own law system and some of them are not compatible with each other. That is reason why EULA can be valid in France (where Blizz is) but not valid in UK, Germany etc..
 
i think if i hired a lawyer to write me a eula, and it failed, id hire a second lawyer to sue the first one.
 
As I said, you simply cannot write EULA which is fully correct for every law system in EU. Other problem is, that there wasn´t any lawsuit about EULA in EU, so hard to tell if it is ok or not.
 
Frosticus, the practice with contacting the legal department of Blizzard Entertainment S.A.S. (The company, representing Blizzard in Europe) confirms, that in certain EU countries like Germany for example, after properly addressed and written claim, Blizzard do prefer to lift the account suspension, instead of taking the claim into the court.

Last time I have been told about 100+ accounts with overtuned Account Closures that way.
 
its all good. we probably shouldnt worry about such things anyways. for all we know it may not even be the issue.

Aion said:
Frosticus, the practice with contacting the legal department of Blizzard Entertainment S.A.S. (The company, representing Blizzard in Europe) confirms, that in certain EU countries like Germany for example, after properly addressed and written claim, Blizzard do prefer to lift the account suspension, instead of taking the claim into the court.

Last time I have been told about 100+ accounts with overtuned Account Closures that way.
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yeh, but then id have to live in Germany and the commute would be hell. hehe
too much stress over the last couple days has made for a grumpy frosticus.
 
Aion said:
Frosticus, the practice with contacting the legal department of Blizzard Entertainment S.A.S. (The company, representing Blizzard in Europe) confirms, that in certain EU countries like Germany for example, after properly addressed and written claim, Blizzard do prefer to lift the account suspension, instead of taking the claim into the court.

Last time I have been told about 100+ accounts with overtuned Account Closures that way.
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Take it to court then .. a class action lawsuit perhaps?
We are with 100,000 potential plaintiffs.
 
Right to end contract (with full refund) within 14d of signing it have every person living in EU.
 
then what would stop every single purchaser of anything ending their contract with a full refund on the 13th day?
you could essentially bot for free if you lived in france.
just buy 100 battlechests, activate, bot for 13 days, and file for refund.

in america, that would make you a fraudulent douchebag, but it sounds like business as usual for the french!!
 
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You have the right to get your money, that is in there (game time or store money) once blizzard canceled your contract, this is common in Europe and there is a law in Germany for that too.
 
frosticus said:
its annoying when you try to post references to US law and Terms and all you get is opposition in the form of 'we dont do it like that in EU' yet, no one has come forward to post any legit reference. so here goes.

lets start here:

Do I get a partial refund if i get banned in the EU?

No. Blizzard Entertainment: World of Warcraft Terms of Use

under REFUNDS section 3, you are clearly not eligible for a refund if you were found in violation.

3. Only current Accounts that are in "good standing," shall be eligible for a refund. Accounts that are "suspended" by Blizzard Entertainment for "non payment," or for a violation of these Terms of Use, are not eligible for a refund.

this is taken straight out of the EU Terms. read it for yourself.

I'll post the next info in a bit.
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The term "in good standing" usually refers to financial status, which means there is actually something to refund.

No matter how you see it, this increasingly turning into a case that the EFF, ACLU and BBB might be interested in having a look at.

Allow me to quote what I wrote in another thread, to put EU laws into context:

You are aware that you have certain rights as a consumer? At least within the EU (where I am), the claim that Blizzard can shut down your account at any time, for no reason is clearly against consumer laws. The obligation to deliver a service you paid for is absolute, by the moment they accept your payment. That is not amendable by any ToS/EULA, by law. The EULA is written to secure Blizzard's interests. It's not a complete list of your rights as a consumer, but just a brief list of things it grants you as to not give an impression that the entire document is lopsided. It does not limit universal consumer rights according to the laws in your country of origin.

If you are found to be in breach of acceptable use policy, that you agreed upon, you still have the right to receive a refund of the dividend for any service you didn't use, i.e. the number of days left on your subscription after which the service was denied you. Hence, the only thing Blizzard can do is to deny you access, if it can prove you were in breach of contract.

Blizzard has to provide that proof upon request, since it is the party initiating the action. Upon failure to provide that evidence, Blizzard is in breach of contract for not delivering a service that you paid for. This is at best in violation of consumer laws, and also actual fraud if it refuses to pay you back any excess amount you paid.

Likewise, it is very likely you would succeed in suing for fraud, if by any event you spent any money for services related to an account that Blizzard had flagged for botting and had plans to suspend or ban at the moment of purchase. There is a clear obligation to deny further orders from you, from the moment they claim you were in breach of contract (not your suspension date, but they date they became aware of your actions). Accepting additional purchases after that, which in any way related to the product they stop delivering due to events it was aware of before the purchase (account renewals, tokens, in-game items) is then an implicit acceptance that you did not breach contract. At its absolute best interpretation, it is horrible business ethics and exploitative practices.

So many people seems to believe that Blizzard defines the law by providing a ToS/EULA. That's far from the truth, and they cannot take away your universal consumer rights.

If I was to apply your logic and accept the EULA literally at the worst possible interpretation, Blizzard could charge you for 12 months of game time and then shut down your account without giving any reason, yet keep the money.

It is pretty scary that people are apparently that gullible and have absolutely no clue about their own rights.
 
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frosticus said:
then what would stop every single purchaser of anything ending their contract with a full refund on the 13th day?
you could essentially bot for free if you lived in france.
just buy 100 battlechests, activate, bot for 13 days, and file for refund.

in america, that would make you a fraudulent douchebag, but it sounds like business as usual for the french!!
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It is not that rare, when customer purchase product, test it for 10d and then return it. People do it with PC parts, home equipment etc.
 
Trixiap said:
It is not that rare, when customer purchase product, test it for 10d and then return it. People do it with PC parts, home equipment etc.
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It's not comparable. You actually have to return the product in the state you purchased it in, and if you buy 100 Battle chests you can hardly claim that you got tricked into buying them/didn't use them and found them unsuitable according to what was portrayed to you. If using one, probably. Not if you used more, and you would not be able to get a refund the second time you bought one.
 
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