Mysterious Fortune Cards and Fortune Cookies

[trinity04]

He is actually right. Making those cards is a gold sink, due to the herbs having a market price. Sure, you'll earn gold, but if you made other things instead, your income would be higher. The only thing that would make me use this is if I farm far more mats than I can sell on the AH.

He could vendor the herbs and make more "profit"... and less time involved too!

 

[Cracktomte]

He could vendor the herbs and make more "profit"... and less time involved too!

I didn't do enough math to realize they vendor for more

 

[tubajedimr]

Your math failed at the part where you assume that 4.44g/card == 4.44g/stack of herb. That's not even CLOSE to accurate.

4.44g/card and I use approximately 32 full herbs to make a single 90 stack of cards.

THUS I'm making closer to 12g/stack of herbs on average.

This is coming from a guy who not only teaches math but also took up to calculus 3 in college.

 

[tubajedimr]

Making those cards is a gold sink, due to the herbs having a market price.

That's not the definition of a gold sink. A gold sink removes gold from circulation, BY DEFINITION. The market value of that item is irrelevant, in fact since it has a market value at all, it cannot even technically qualify to be a gold sink. Look it up.

 

[al.muhandis]

You failed to take into consideration one doing all their own farming of herbs.

The cost per card is only 12s (for the parchment).

I make approximately 400g per bag run (full bags 90 slots).

This includes about 1 50g card and about 5 20g cards.

I only paid 10g for 90 parchment.

I've turned a HUGE profit, including what I sell from my herbalism otherwise, including Volatile Life and Air, extra herbs, and Inferno Inks.

I urge you to check your sources.

There's an opportunity cost if you're gathering your own herbs. This cost is how much you're "losing" by not selling the herbs in AH.

400g / bag run => 90 slots => 90 stacks of Whiptail?

On my server, Whiptail is at least 30g/stack, so that'd be 2700g, or 1260g if you're on a server where they cost 14g/stack. I'm not sure if 90 stacks is actually what you mean though...

MFCs go for a bare minimum of 8g (when severely undercut) a piece on my server, and for a max of around 14g. If I list them in the AH though, I'm quickly undercut by some idiots who, instead of undercutting by 5%-10%, undercut by 30%+. I made around 1200 of them during my last gather run and have been able to sell around 200 for 2k, but haven't been able to sell the other 800 for days now. The market's currently screwed up by these idiots (they probably started selling once I barked in trade chat).

In other words, MFCs are in too high supply and low in demand. People (ie, idiots) will price them at anything as long as they make some profit from the herbs they bought, no matter how much time it takes them to mill, buy parchments, and create the cards.

There is also the issue of Darkmoon cards. I've run tens of thousands of simulations with a RNG and 120 cards is the average to create all four decks at least once each. About 54 cards is the average to create one of any deck.

120 cards/complete set * 10 inks/card * 1 whiptail stack/1.6 inks * gold cost/whiptail stack = 22,500g (assuming whiptail cost of 30g/stack and modestly ignoring the cost of Volatile Life).
On my server, volcano=~6k, tsunami=~10k, hurricane=~6k, earthquake=~3k. Complete set = 25k

So after spending time gathering 1200x20=24,000 whiptail, you make around only 2.5k in profit. Also, as you continue to make Darkmoon cards, the number of duplicates you have increases, thus decreasing the value/per card severely. MFCs are poop, Darkmoon cards are poop, and the glyph market is ?ber poop, so what's left for us Scribes?

If I've misunderstood you and what you say about making 2k-3k every 3 hours is true, then using the cards isn't bad at all. I really do hope this is the case. Otherwise, I'll be down to making less than 800g/hour on my server.

 

[tubajedimr]

There's an opportunity cost if you're gathering your own herbs. This cost is how much you're "losing" by not selling the herbs in AH.

400g / bag run => 90 slots => 90 stacks of Whiptail?

Let me stop you right there. 90 slots of CARDS mailed. Only about 30-32 stacks of whiptail. I get closer to 110 cards, but I'm being generous by estimating less for the sake of argument.

(EDIT: That is to say, 30-32 stacks of whiptail used in the milling inking process to end up with 90-110 cards total. On my server whiptail doesn't sell that high, but I sell at 15g/stack regardless on trade, so for ME at least, 12g average per stack is a screamin deal especially since I don't have to risk selling tons of herbs on trade or AH.

 

[tubajedimr]

400g average for 32 whiptails to produce 90-110 cards == 12g/stack
1200g for 1 stack of Volatile Life (I have a consistent buyer)
1000g for 40 stack of Volatile Air. Same consistent buyer.

~2600g

Time farmed to achieve this:

[Gatherbuddy v2.0.0.675]:Gatherbuddy has been running for 1h 15m 35s. Collected a total of 145 nodes.
[Gatherbuddy v2.0.0.675]:Whiptail: 135
[Gatherbuddy v2.0.0.675]:Cinderbloom: 10

 

[trinity04]

Your math failed at the part where you assume that 4.44g/card == 4.44g/stack of herb. That's not even CLOSE to accurate.

4.44g/card and I use approximately 32 full herbs to make a single 90 stack of cards.

THUS I'm making closer to 12g/stack of herbs on average.

This is coming from a guy who not only teaches math but also took up to calculus 3 in college.

You simply said you made 400g/ "run" where run is usually meant to be a bot run...

Anyways... you "might" teach math (probably to 3rd grade students...) but you don't know anything about economy...


When I said "Gold sink" earlier, I was primarily referring to the Herbs themselves. Probably what I should have said was Material sink. It was designed to remove materials off the market. to keep herb prices from falling too much due to botters and such.. Also to maintain the Glyph market and give scribes something else to use for making money after the glyph change that came with 4.0.

 

[tubajedimr]

You simply said you made 400g/ "run" where run is usually meant to be a bot run...

Anyways... you "might" teach math (probably to 3rd grade students...) but you don't know anything about economy...


When I said "Gold sink" earlier, I was primarily referring to the Herbs themselves. Probably what I should have said was Material sink. It was designed to remove materials off the market. to keep herb prices from falling too much due to botters and such.. Also to maintain the Glyph market and give scribes something else to use for making money after the glyph change that came with 4.0.

I was very clear and clarified what I meant when I said run. Yes bot run. As in THIS profile. A single bot run of this profile yielding 90 cards and 400g. I couldn't have been more clear. And no I teach high school Algebra and Trig.

And if thats what you meant by sink, I concur. Sorry if I sounded rude btw

 

[trinity04]

edit...



Whatever... there are much better ways to invest gold.. if doing this is more profitable than the free market on the server... your server has crashed

 

[tubajedimr]

135 whiptail != 32 stacks....

Yes that particular run was a half run (1 hour and 15 minute time).

135 whiptail nodes equals about 300 whiptail plus the guild perk bonus. 2 hours and 3 minutes (2 - 3 hours) equals about 640 whiptail or 32 stacks

 

[tubajedimr]

edit...



Whatever... there are much better ways to invest gold.. if doing this is more profitable than the free market on the server... your server has crashed

I'm sorry that you can't comprehend the math, and your only conclusion since this goes right over your head is that the server has crashed, but I don't really see how your failure to comprehend math means you need to knock my way of doing things that not only works for me, but I think should also work for others.

I never claimed it was more profitable or the most profitable. I just said it's profitable. And it is. Kthxbye. I've had quite enough of your foolishness.

 

[Dubbelu]

"I make approximately 400g per bag run (full bags 90 slots). " Indicates that you get 400g after a full run, so seeing you get about 32 stacks in 2-3 hours, you make like 400g per ~6-9 hours?
And yes I've read all your other posts, but it makes more sence to me that you would be lying to make an argument.

 

[tubajedimr]

but it makes more sence to me that you would be lying to make an argument.

To what end exactly? I mean seriously, have a seat, take a breath, do some calculations, and you yourself will see what I'm talking about. 400g per bag run using this profile yielded from 90 cards. On average.

That (as I said) doesn't count the amount made from selling the volatiles.

Considering the work and effort I've put into my profiles and the reputation I've made for myself on this site, I don't really see what benefit lying about my gold profit per hour would be exactly.

 

[trinity04]

I'm sorry that you can't comprehend the math, and your only conclusion since this goes right over your head is that the server has crashed, but I don't really see how your failure to comprehend math means you need to knock my way of doing things that not only works for me, but I think should also work for others.

I never claimed it was more profitable or the most profitable. I just said it's profitable. And it is. Kthxbye. I've had quite enough of your foolishness.

My comprehension of logic and basic math is superb.

e-Peen Alert... I am currently a Clinical Psychologist with a Masters degree from UF. and know my way around High School math, although i did not take calc 3 in College... ;-)

that is all

 

[al.muhandis]

Math aside, if he's making 12g on average per stack, it isn't worth it at all to use the cards, at least on my server. Of course, on his server where Whiptail only sells for 15g a stack, a 3g loss per stack is definitely worth avoiding the risk of a ban.

I think I'll drop mining and add engineering to my gather alt so I can gather airs too. Thanks tuba, I didn't know you could make that many airs from engineering+gathering.

 

[tubajedimr]

and know my way around High School math

You've just demonstrated that you don't.

 

[Altoids]

Tuba, I was looking over one of your other threads and followed your signature back to this one - and decided to see where it went.

Let me give you some advice:
1) Just because we are trying to tell you that what you are doing isn't making you as much gold as you could get otherwise, it isn't an attack on you.
2) When someone disagrees with you, it's not an open invitation to flame them and act like a defensive child.
3) When we say that what you are doing is a 'gold sink', it doesn't have to literally mean that you are taking gold out of circulation, it also could (and does in this case) mean that you are making LESS gold than you could be or devaluating what you are using.

Opening MFCs make less gold than SELLING them. Trust me, I know. I have literally sold 10s of thousands of gold of them. I'm not going to go into full details on the open forum, but when I sold them, I could get 12-15 gold on average per card. I made enough gold that I reset the market if it was too low by buying the cards that were there and selling them for higher - and NEVER lost a copper piece doing it.

I got out of that market just because I got tired of it and the competition and didn't feel like doing it. You can make better money by selling the Fortune Cookies (MFCs + flour with max cooking) but that takes more time (and reduces competition too). I generally sell those by the handful to raiders via AH.

Sorry... but what you're doing doesn't make mathmatical sense. It is a gold sink... not in the sense that you are literally throwing out gold, but in that you are making less with what you are using than you could be. The only positive I see in what you are doing is that it is literally 'zero vis' - Noone sees a bunch of auctions and can question your methods, you are just vendering what you flip.

BTW - if you want to keep doing what you are doing, that's fine, just please don't try and convince those of us that have a decent grasp of algebra and stats that what you are doing is maximizing your income - cause it's not. Also, if you do flip over a 1k or 5k card (or when if you do keep doing it, eventually you're bound to) - sell it on the AH. Believe it or not, you will likely get higher than face value for people looking to send toons to a different realm with more loot then Bliz allows in gold.

Good luck and have a great day...

 

[greaterdeath]

Whatever happened to "if you don't like it don't use it"? What a ridiculous amount of nit-picking on someone who has contributed *a LOT* to HB users. Who cares if you think he could make more money different ways, he created & shared something on how to make gold THIS way.

 

[tyr]

Awesome profile Tubajedimr!! This thing is great for servers like mine, where herbs are dirt cheap, and they don't sell very well on AH. I really appreciate the time you put into making and sharing this with everyone.