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Kupper - Demo/Testing

I'm still iffy about auto-Goad. I'd be afraid people would start getting suspicious that you're Goading them @ the exact same TP every time, but I'm paranoid like that lol.
 
Just make something up if anyone asks (which hasn't been the case thus far). I personally would say "Whenever I get low on TP, I like to Goad other people because I assume they need it." I don't forsee it becoming a huge deal considering you're benefiting the person and they may not even notice. Although if you're in a pre-made group and it auto-Goads when someone might request it later...that could be a problem. Probably would be nice to have an option to use it or not like other abilities in the settings have.
 
Now people know about TPMonitor so it is not rare that ninja Goad people on low TP. Especially you can change custom color for any range in the TPMonitor. When I play manually I am able to spot that once its TP bar turn red. Of course you are not suppose to talk about parser in game so if people ask I tell them go reddit search tp.
 
Prodiniz said:
This is a great combat routine so far. Great work. I have two suggestions.

1. Would it be possible to change the opening rotation more in reference to this? :

The "Ideal" Opener:
pre-pull huton (pull happens @5~ seconds to ninjutsu off cd) -> spinning edge -> ir -> gust slash -> bfb -> dancing edge -> suiton -> spinning edge -> trick attack -> shadow fang -> kassatsu -> mutilate ->raiton -> spinning edge -> mug -> gust slash -> jugulate
This is mathematically the highest average damage opener because of the 'snapshotting' of your dots outweighing other setups. After this opener, you will either dancing edge or aeolian edge depending on if you have Storm's Eye being applied. In this context, your huton will be reapplied in the second ninjutsu after the opener; ideally you're fast enough such that your will start a non-huton'ed gcd then cast huton, effectively extending the duration of the previous huton since a 3-step mudra invocation invariably will delay your next gcd.

The in-a-rush-tank opener:
huton as tank is going in -> spinning edge -> ir -> gust slash -> bfb -> dancing edge -> mug -> mutilate -> jugulate -> spinning edge -> shadow fang. Some time a little later into the fight (3-4 gcds~) you will weave suiton -> trick -> kassatsu -> raiton.

I pulled this information from here and I've tested the difference personally and it's anywhere between a 20-30 dps increase according to ACT. I would love it if someone else could test this to confirm for me and if all is good we can rework the rotation a bit for higher dps. :) Also, among my server it's becoming noticeable that opening with mutilate is not ideal and it gets commented on infrequently for me. I can only imagine this is going to get worse as more ppl find optimal rotations.


2. I would like to request a feature that acknowledges another ninja or the trick attack debuff for openers.

I understand if this can't be done or is too complicated to implement but it would be such an awesome feature. Let me first clarify by saying this: on my server it's also becoming a thing to have two Ninjas in the party for 20 seconds of the trick attack debuff. Ideally, having two ninjas in the party allows them to coordinate their attacks so they can have the trick attack debuff up as long as possible. As it stands now I can temporarily bypass this by telling everyone "I'll be the first to apply it" because it falls naturally in Kupper's natural rotation, however, if the routine was optimized to recognize the trick attack debuff and adjust it's rotation accordingly then this wouldn't even be an issue any longer. :)
Click to expand...

It's been a few weeks and since the CR is coming along great I'd like to see if it's time to reevaluate rotation and opener tweaks to get the highest dps possible.

I've also have two more requests:

1. Add an option to not Suiton/trick attack under a mob's certain hp. (Example: Do not Suiton/Trick Attack under 4000 HP)

2. I don't know if it's just me, or if nobody is really talking about it, or if I just missed it in the thread, but every time I turn on RB when using the Kupper CR I lose the auto-face setting in game. I have to manually go to (Character Settings-->Target-->Target Settings-->Automatically face target when using action) and uncheck then recheck the option to get Kupper to perform properly otherwise I get "Target not in Range" if I'm not facing it. This isn't a huge deal seeing as how I've been doing this since I've been using this CR but it's kind of annoying. I recall Magitek had this issue on several occasions but I don't recall how it was resolved.

Thanks again, Ichiba, for all your hard work.
 
I have a suggestion after running this solo on beast tribe, it often start using nintsuju even when the monster has very low hp, it is okay when there are multiple targets but most of the time it just wasted it.
I think it would be nice if there is an option such that if target health below certain amount stop using nintsuju, for solo play. As you might want to turn it to 0 while fight a raid boss. Not sure if it matters
 
hkme said:
I have a suggestion after running this solo on beast tribe, it often start using nintsuju even when the monster has very low hp, it is okay when there are multiple targets but most of the time it just wasted it.
I think it would be nice if there is an option such that if target health below certain amount stop using nintsuju, for solo play. As you might want to turn it to 0 while fight a raid boss. Not sure if it matters
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What do you mean it's "ok when there are multiple targets but most of the time it just wasted it"?

Are you saying that when there are multiple targets, it starts the Ninjutsu on target 1 (which dies before the Ninjutsu finishes) and then uses the Ninjutsu on target 2 (since there are multiple targets around)?

If that's the case, how is using Ninjutsu when there aren't multiple targets wasting it? It only has a 20 second cooldown. If there aren't multiple targets close by then surely Ninjutsu will be back off cooldown by the time you reach your next target?

I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm genuinely curious (I haven't tried Kupper yet myself so I don't know how it handles Ninjutsu/if I'm understanding correctly).
 
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Endus said:
What do you mean it's "ok when there are multiple targets but most of the time it just wasted it"?

Are you saying that when there are multiple targets, it starts the Ninjutsu on target 1 (which dies before the Ninjutsu finishes) and then uses the Ninjutsu on target 2 (since there are multiple targets around)?

If that's the case, how is using Ninjutsu when there aren't multiple targets wasting it? It only has a 20 second cooldown. If there aren't multiple targets close by then surely Ninjutsu will be back off cooldown by the time you reach your next target?

I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm genuinely curious (I haven't tried Kupper yet myself so I don't know how it handles Ninjutsu/if I'm understanding correctly).
Click to expand...

He means if there's more than one add on him at a single time and Raiton is used as an execution when it would be better to wait two seconds for it to die from a melee and then Raiton the second add. Same problem as doting an almost dead mob
 
Endus, you are right the cooldown is short and for solo play it does not matter too much. I am not good at this job either so I might be wrong.
The reason why I have this thought is because I see this multiple times, when the target has very low hp, like 100 hp, it starts ninjutsu. As Ninjutsu have multiple steps, during one of the middle step, the mob was dead by autoattack(or the dot that you applied). Then the mudra starts counting down as it only has 5 seconds timer. If there is another target around, it will select the target and continue the nintsuju. If there is no target around then the mudra will expire after 5 seconds and the 20 seconds coooldown timers kicks in. What I suggest is, instead of starting a new ninjutsu at low hp, why not just use direct damage skill to finish it off. Yes, as kaihaider said, its very like applying dot when the mob almost dead.
 
Ahh I see what you mean now. Although, if you set it to not use Ninjutsu against a mob with less than 20% HP (execute range), it also wouldn't use it against a boss for a quarter of the fight. If you set a hard HP number (2000 or whatever) some mobs might not even have that much HP and some might have more. Of course this is the same issue we've had with DoTs for a while now as well.

I think the main problem with FFXIV is that there's no way to identify bosses (that I know of, other than a huge manual list). In a game like WoW the Bosses, Rares, Elites, etc. are all identifiable to the bot. If we could say "If NOT Boss mob, DON'T use Ninjutsu if HP >= 20%" it would easily solve the problem.
 
Not sure if it's optimal or not, but would an option to use shukuchi be something to include in? ie like what magitek has for monks shoulder tackle
 
I thought kupper did this?

would be nice if it put you on the edge of melee range or an option to go behind the target
 
Yeah I'll add HP checks to ninjutsu stuff, I just haven't had a lot of time to work on the CR lately. Kupper doesn't mess with any game settings. If something is changing them, it's not Kupper. I don't see the point of automating shukuchi. When would this even be beneficial? Fate botting?
 
Ichiba said:
Yeah I'll add HP checks to ninjutsu stuff, I just haven't had a lot of time to work on the CR lately. Kupper doesn't mess with any game settings. If something is changing them, it's not Kupper. I don't see the point of automating shukuchi. When would this even be beneficial? Fate botting?
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anytime you want automated movement and to get into range of things more quickly :S
20 yards of running without hitting is a bit of a dps loss
 
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