"I DO get it" Demonbuddy is 129 times SLOWER.

[lota7]

Blizzard just released a patch to add in some "Tools" for their developers.
Any bets on one of these tools being Traffic monitoring?
All accounts being linked to this nav server = banned.
And since demonbuddy now stay linked the entire time...

The single most stupid decision ever made.

 

[Sebbe551]

Still can't bot with this ms

 

[extremevil]

OP do you work for a tabloid? They use sensationalist titles like you do, which sound accurate, yet are skewing things in favor of gaining popular support. Let's follow your logic - it used to take me 4 minutes to clear a t6 rift. By your claim, it should now take 129 times 4 minutes, or 516 minutes (8.6 hours). Does your bot take 8 hours to clear a rift? Mine sure as hell doesn't.

You do make a good point with blizzard being able to detect traffic to the IP address, so DB team please address that - what measures are you taking to avoid that?

My bot can't even do rifts.
stuck stuck stuck stuck restartinggame stuck stuck stuck stuck restartinggame stuck stuck stuck stuck restartinggame.

 

[odincs]

Totally agree you, please do something team. New DB is really sucks.

 

[Jodyhighroller]

Why don't we give them some time and at least wait till they see were they go with this, I have 100% faith in there ability to get things up and running again, rome wasn't build in one day and this is only there first step once they have everything rolling I think expending there server's isn't that far fetched...

Well, for one, because they chose to experiment with this the same day the new season started that they had over a month to prepare for...

 

[MaiN]

It has been a pretty bumpy release, we admit that, and we are truly sorry about that. We read everything in the forums, and we do not take all the criticism lightly. The service we provide has not been usable for a lot of people, and that is unacceptable. We have been working pretty much around the clock since the release this Friday to make stability improvements, and we are finally seeing some improvements, but we are not done yet. That said, you can read Bossland's post for the motivation behind making these changes, and why it had to be done.

There are just a few misconceptions I need to clear up here:

Other game che4t companies do not on-demand stream their products... because it's too slow.

ArtifcialAiming - Downloads the injectable at the start of the session... then stops.

Soapbox Rotations - Downloads the injectable at the start of the session... then stops.

MMO Minion - User downloads the whole package.

BotExploit - User downloads the whole package.

mmoviper - User downloads the whole package.

MMOlazy - User downloads the whole package.

Reb0t - User downloads the whole package

Macrogoblin - User downloads the whole package


Hell, even Honorbuddy downloads everything it needs at the start of the session then stops.

Speaking for Honorbuddy, this is not true. Meshes are streamed at runtime. I will also bet that any other bot that uses a mesh system for navigation does the same.

Streaming will get us banned

Even though ArtifcialAiming's client only connects very briefly to their server, it was long enough for Valve to catch / ban a ton of CSGO users last year
Here's Gabe's confession

It was not the actual streaming that was utilized in VAC for detection. They utilized the DNS cache, and only after something suspicious had already been found. If Blizzard wanted to go straight for the networking, they could detect you visiting www.thebuddyforum.com, or you pinging our servers. This would be massively intrusive - as you can see, it was a PR nightmare for Valve, and their detection was even less intrusive.
We have also used our auth servers for a long time, and as said, meshes are being streamed. If Blizzard wanted to go this route, they could have done it since the beginning of HB. Not a good argument, but a level playing field has to be assumed.

Software as a Service
Legitimate SaaS providers use CDNs to make their product as fast / reliable as possible. Multiple servers in strategic locations around the world so that users never have slow downloads / high pings.

How many servers does Demonbuddy use?

1 server in Paris, France.

This is not true. We have multiple servers that are load balanced, and the servers are holding up to the load they are under. The problems are elsewhere - and we have identified them, and are taking actions to resolve them.

I live on the East Coast of the US. That means I am 4,038 miles away from your server.
Someone living in California is 5,661 miles away.
Someone living in Brisbane, Austrailia is 10282 miles away.


129 times SLOWER?

That was my connection at about 10:30am EST this "moaning".
10:30am est is 7:30am pst and 3:30pm cet - In other words, a very low demand time for your server.

As you can see it takes 129ms to send and receive a packet. That means every every 3-4 (non-combat) steps my character takes, I have to wait 129ms.

And that is if everything works. If the internet gets slow somewhere or you server is busy... then it takes far longer.

So, compared to the data being on my computer, Demonbuddy is at least 129 times slower than is used to be. Or needs to be. (techincally your computer is way faster than 1ms).

This is not how it is supposed to work. It should definitely be more than 3-4 steps between requests to that server. This is one of the things we are collecting data on and improving upon.

While this is (apparently) going to come as a surprise to you... I don't think 25 Euros is a lot of money.

I'd be surprised if this got you more than 100 former pirates as customers.

So is 2500 Euros a lot of money to Bossland GmbH? I hope it's a fortune. Because you traded in a huge chunk of your credibility with your existing customers in order to get it.

This, on top of the Honorbuddy / Hearthbuddy / Stormbuddy / Buddywing woes... At some point people are going to stop giving you their $25.

Previously, people bought your software because it worked... and (mostly) don't get them caught. I'm not sure I can say that any more.

As said previously, you can read the motivations in Bossland's post.

In short: Sorry for the bumpy launch, it was obviously not intended to be like this. Right now we are working around the clock to get DB back to the same levels of smoothness as before patch 2.3.

 

[CalifRHCP]

Honestly it just seemed like a really weird time to release a big change like this, but I guess that can't be helped now. Glad to see you guys are awake though, hopefully we'll see an update pushed soon.

 

[Lok1]

Its all well and good offering up defenses when the bot is currently down again...........

 

[Luckywhite]

In short: Sorry for the bumpy launch, it was obviously not intended to be like this. Right now we are working around the clock to get DB back to the same levels of smoothness as before patch 2.3.

Posts like this is the way to communicate towards your community. Thanks you very much and I will wait until the problems are solved.

 

[xor]

Posts like this is the way to communicate towards your community. Thanks you very much and I will wait until the problems are solved.

Yep, well said and totally agree 100%. This is how you to talk to your customers.

 

[Zeeki]

I love improvements and all, but living in a country that dosent have fibre yet...

my ping to eu is roughly 300+ms, lets not even talk about america.

 

[sisthunder]

It has been a pretty bumpy release, we admit that, and we are truly sorry about that. We read everything in the forums, and we do not take all the criticism lightly. The service we provide has not been usable for a lot of people, and that is unacceptable. We have been working pretty much around the clock since the release this Friday to make stability improvements, and we are finally seeing some improvements, but we are not done yet. That said, you can read Bossland's post for the motivation behind making these changes, and why it had to be done.

There are just a few misconceptions I need to clear up here:

Speaking for Honorbuddy, this is not true. Meshes are streamed at runtime. I will also bet that any other bot that uses a mesh system for navigation does the same.


It was not the actual streaming that was utilized in VAC for detection. They utilized the DNS cache, and only after something suspicious had already been found. If Blizzard wanted to go straight for the networking, they could detect you visiting www.thebuddyforum.com, or you pinging our servers. This would be massively intrusive - as you can see, it was a PR nightmare for Valve, and their detection was even less intrusive.
We have also used our auth servers for a long time, and as said, meshes are being streamed. If Blizzard wanted to go this route, they could have done it since the beginning of HB. Not a good argument, but a level playing field has to be assumed.


This is not true. We have multiple servers that are load balanced, and the servers are holding up to the load they are under. The problems are elsewhere - and we have identified them, and are taking actions to resolve them.


This is not how it is supposed to work. It should definitely be more than 3-4 steps between requests to that server. This is one of the things we are collecting data on and improving upon.



As said previously, you can read the motivations in Bossland's post.

In short: Sorry for the bumpy launch, it was obviously not intended to be like this. Right now we are working around the clock to get DB back to the same levels of smoothness as before patch 2.3.

This post should be a stand-alone sticky.

 

[Invictvs]

Holy shit, I had no idea it was this bad.

Not like it matters, but this will be my last month subbing. My bot barely runs as it is and now that I'm being told I'll be forced to stream from a server in France? Fuck that.

 

[Lok1]

Holy shit, I had no idea it was this bad.

Not like it matters, but this will be my last month subbing. My bot barely runs as it is and now that I'm being told I'll be forced to stream from a server in France? Fuck that.

Its worse, the bot had only been working maybe half a day before this update, now we have to wait another few days for DB to get bought up to this small patch while devs make long posts defending the bot not working instead of just getting it back live

 

[CalifRHCP]

Some of you are the worst types of customers, I can see you now in so many situations being entirely illogical and out of control. This is software, software which serves a very specific purpose and in order to do that a lot of things have to happen. DB team can't stop diablo 3 from releasing minor patches every other day, DB Team could potentially make it so that offsets auto update, but then there is a security issue and people who opt to update before a proper scan is done will come straight here to whine about getting banned because they couldn't wait.

Yes, the nav server implemenation was done at a poor time - and yes it comes with its own new security and connectivity issues that need to be addressed. All of that takes time.

In the end, you CAN SURVIVE with out the bot for a few days or even weeks. No one is really making a living off botting D3 anymore. I'm recovering from a broken right wrist (my mouse wrist) and yes it sucks that I have to play manually so much because it gets sore and painful, but whatever. If you can't have fun manually playing D3 for a few days, you should probably move on to something else.

To be completely honest with you, I'm surprised that they even keep DB updated this much, considering there is no profit to be made from it anymore.

From a business perspective I think it would be smarter for them to move on to a subscription system for future products - that way at least when things like this happen they can provide free subscription time to ease tension, and people won't feel slighted when their lifetime products eventually go defunct due to lack of updates.

I've gotten my fair share out of my lifetime purchase of D3, I made many times the cost when the RMAH was open botting. Now I just use it for my own farming, and its just a bonus.

 

[Lipie]

Some of you are the worst types of customers, I can see you now in so many situations being entirely illogical and out of control. This is software, software which serves a very specific purpose and in order to do that a lot of things have to happen. DB team can't stop diablo 3 from releasing minor patches every other day, DB Team could potentially make it so that offsets auto update, but then there is a security issue and people who opt to update before a proper scan is done will come straight here to whine about getting banned because they couldn't wait.

Yes, the nav server implemenation was done at a poor time - and yes it comes with its own new security and connectivity issues that need to be addressed. All of that takes time.

In the end, you CAN SURVIVE with out the bot for a few days or even weeks. No one is really making a living off botting D3 anymore. I'm recovering from a broken right wrist (my mouse wrist) and yes it sucks that I have to play manually so much because it gets sore and painful, but whatever. If you can't have fun manually playing D3 for a few days, you should probably move on to something else.

This, so much this. I'm sad to see so many people with 0 respect or 0 trust in buddy products because they have to wait a couple of days. There are NO products on the worldwide market that are as advanced and amazing as demonbuddy/Exilebuddy/honorbuddy, but hey , people forget quickly I guess.

Also, I might understand it when you have a botfarm and you do this for income but Diablo 3 is a complete singleplayer experience nowadays, why is it a problem if you had the bot yesterday or next week ? You can't trade, sell or whatever anyway ? Right ?

 

[Nyynuh]

This, so much this. I'm sad to see so many people with 0 respect or 0 trust in buddy products because they have to wait a couple of days. There are NO products on the worldwide market that are as advanced and amazing as demonbuddy/Exilebuddy/honorbuddy, but hey , people forget quickly I guess.

Also, I might understand it when you have a botfarm and you do this for income but Diablo 3 is a complete singleplayer experience nowadays, why is it a problem if you had the bot yesterday or next week ? You can't trade, sell or whatever anyway ? Right ?

We're talking about seasons here. You want to be first as soon as possible. The Buddy team chose one of the worst start they could have.

Also, if it wasn't for HB, IMHO - really IMHO, this community wasn't that advanced, also the bots are rather a platforms and if not all the contribution from the costumers themselves (who are writing the profiles themselves) HB, DB and EB were nothing.

Nevertheless, happy costumer here. I DO get it. After all it's a business and it's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum.

 

[iargue]

It has been a pretty bumpy release, we admit that, and we are truly sorry about that. We read everything in the forums, and we do not take all the criticism lightly. The service we provide has not been usable for a lot of people, and that is unacceptable. We have been working pretty much around the clock since the release this Friday to make stability improvements, and we are finally seeing some improvements, but we are not done yet. That said, you can read Bossland's post for the motivation behind making these changes, and why it had to be done.

There are just a few misconceptions I need to clear up here:

Speaking for Honorbuddy, this is not true. Meshes are streamed at runtime. I will also bet that any other bot that uses a mesh system for navigation does the same.


It was not the actual streaming that was utilized in VAC for detection. They utilized the DNS cache, and only after something suspicious had already been found. If Blizzard wanted to go straight for the networking, they could detect you visiting www.thebuddyforum.com, or you pinging our servers. This would be massively intrusive - as you can see, it was a PR nightmare for Valve, and their detection was even less intrusive.
We have also used our auth servers for a long time, and as said, meshes are being streamed. If Blizzard wanted to go this route, they could have done it since the beginning of HB. Not a good argument, but a level playing field has to be assumed.


This is not true. We have multiple servers that are load balanced, and the servers are holding up to the load they are under. The problems are elsewhere - and we have identified them, and are taking actions to resolve them.


This is not how it is supposed to work. It should definitely be more than 3-4 steps between requests to that server. This is one of the things we are collecting data on and improving upon.



As said previously, you can read the motivations in Bossland's post.

In short: Sorry for the bumpy launch, it was obviously not intended to be like this. Right now we are working around the clock to get DB back to the same levels of smoothness as before patch 2.3.

Why could you not have made this post several days ago when the problems first started? The longer that things to unacknowledged, the angrier that people get. Making this post much earlier would have changed things for the better.

But beyond all of that, I understand your need to prevent pirates to ensure that you can remain up and running. Someone posted not too long ago about how he had 3 lifetime keys, but he had 3 more that he *****ed and just used the lifetime keys for the tripwire. It was sad to think that he would use the product so much, and was too cheap to shell out money for a lifetime license for all that he used it for.

However, you've made a terrible mistake. Maybe you haven't followed the gaming scene outside of blizzard too closely, but you could have seen this coming from a hundred million miles away and prevented all of the hate you are getting. SEVERAL billion dollar companies have tried the "always online" DRM and every time its been a huge negative pr aspect for them, and in the end, every single on of them is currently *****ed. While you guys may see it is an important step to ensuring that the company survives, everyone who has trusted you up to this point, has lost a ton of trust in you guys.

I started botting years ago using Honorbuddy and I loved it, and thus have used Buddy Bots exclusively up until this point, because I knew I could always trust that it would work and would work well. I have license for 4 different products, but recently I've became more and more upset with what has been going on. The Path of Exile bot never reached the quality I expected after over a year of waiting, until I eventually gave up on the game. And now, Demonbuddy is having issues at easily the worst time. The cross promotion between Hots and D3 is going on that needs you to get a level 70 character to get a free mount. That means that there are tons of people who want to get the easy level from 1-70 from a bot so they get something in a game they actively play. but the bot isn't working, and thus people get angry because they expected the product to work and it wasn't. However, when no one told them what was wrong, or when a fix would come, or even if a fix was coming, people got angrier, and when they discovered that it wasn't working because you purposely added in a feature to break it, they grew outraged. At this point, I was disappointed because of the fact that the game is 99% grind based to get to the fun parts, and I couldn't skip any of those parts. Then bossland made his post, and thats when things turned to outrage for me.

Its one thing to hurt your customers by poorly implementing DRM and thus making the product available. But to then tell your customers that they are a bunch of babies and they can suck it up? Thats fucked up. Not only did you not learn from the fuckups of the billion dollar companies, you didn't even learn how to apologize from them. You came to the forum, said that we should stop bitching, and that was it.

If you had made this post instead of Bossland making his post, everything would have been fine. If devs had just commented and told people that you were aware of the issues and were fixing it. Great. If you guys had asked for more data, or tracerts, or anything that makes it look like you are actively seeking a solution to the problem. Much less anger. But when the only dev post I saw the whole weekend was a dev saying, "The nav severs are up" (While my bot stood still and did nothing) that creates a giant issue.

So yeah, I used to think that the buddy team was the elite of the botting world, with an excellent product, great customer service, and you could always count on them. But after having bossland tell me that I should stop complaining about his DRM... I wonder...

 

[iargue]

We're talking about seasons here. You want to be first as soon as possible. The Buddy team chose one of the worst start they could have.

Also, if it wasn't for HB, IMHO - really IMHO, this community wasn't that advanced, also the bots are rather a platforms and if not all the contribution from the costumers themselves (who are writing the profiles themselves) HB, DB and EB were nothing.

Nevertheless, happy costumer here. I DO get it. After all it's a business and it's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum.

The seasons was bad enough, but there is a Cross Promotion with HoTs right now, that requires you to level a seasonal character from 1-70 for a free mount, which means that everyone who doesn't normally play D3 is coming here to bot so they don't have to level up manually....

 

[Jaynen]

One of the first lessons you need to learn about running SaaS is that its about making the fewest people upset. We all want you to make enough money to keep making software that works or we would not be here. The sooner you communicate clearly that you a) hear your customer base and b) what actions you are taking the better. Also as "mad" as you may get personally about the reason something needs to be done posts like the original about your personal justifications for doing something usually inflame the userbase not help them understand.