Hearthbuddy Project Update #1

[layg1990]

I just run whatever "free" deck is for the hero I am trying to level and set Silverfish to control. Like I said, I get about a 50% win rate doing that. Since the win rate is 50% I also turn OFF concede after win, as there is no point in having it on unless you have a high win rate. (Occasionally I get a streak and manage to rank up to 19, but the get ranked back down to 20 shortly thereafter).

Its not the "Fastest" way to grind.. but considering it's going on in the background with 0 input from me.. its fine being "slow". Granted a "high win %" deck is only slightly faster..

Really, what we should be aiming for in decks for "Grinding" IMO is:
1. Decks that can finish a match in under 8 turns.
2. Super High win rates

I would love to see Hearthbuddy to be updated to maintain its own internal database of win % based on Hero, Cards, etc.. a "learning" AI that will track individual decks so it "knows" what cards are in the deck and then counts and plans ahead based on what it has drawn/discarded and what it knows is still in the deck...

Right now it only seems to look at whats in the hand and on the table with no real "planning ahead"

I do not understand how you get a 50% winrate with a basic hero deck. Last night I ran this for about an hour and a half, I first went 5-4, then ended at like 6-20. It was ridiculous. Even using Silverfish rush, the bot would still target the board more often than the hero, losing me many of the games. Today the last game I used it for was warlock basic deck vs mage, didnt attack the hero once until my last turn. Kept using hero spell and I did more damage to myself than the enemy hero did.

 

[layg1990]

I also think that they should get rid of whatever stops me from rolling over cards. Sometimes I don't even know what the hell a card does, and would like to read it so when I watch it, maybe I can learn as I see the bot do something, being able to understand which cards did what.

 

[pushedx]

A new post will be made very soon in light of recent events (expansion announcement, random bans).

I also think that they should get rid of whatever stops me from rolling over cards. Sometimes I don't even know what the hell a card does, and would like to read it so when I watch it, maybe I can learn as I see the bot do something, being able to understand which cards did what.

This is technically impossible.

Either the bot has to play the game like a human would (which is what it'll be changed to do fully), using input actions so the targeting arrow is shown, card hovering can be done, and card playing looks more natural, or it doesn't, in which case, no card hovering, no target arrow, continued bot like appearance.

Think of it like two people trying to play a game, using the same keyboard and mouse, but performing different actions.

 

[CaptainReynolds]

Will this new version be available soon? If not can you just release a version with the targeting update only, and push back the rest of the features? I don't really feel comfortable buying more than a trial version of the bot when I'm likely to get banned within a week.

 

[janusznazir]

I hope you guys update it quick because ban hammer is near

 

[runittwiice]

You know it's actually a pretty fun game to play yourself..unless you just want to farm gold portraits..

 

[janusznazir]

its better fun to play with all cards

 

[pushedx]

Will this new version be available soon? If not can you just release a version with the targeting update only, and push back the rest of the features?

This is exactly the plan, and all our time is being spent right now preparing a build that does this to replace Release. A post will be made soon(TM) about the changes and the new Beta plan once everything is ready.

 

[janusznazir]

This is exactly the plan, and all our time is being spent right now preparing a build that does this to replace Release. A post will be made soon(TM) about the changes and the new Beta plan once everything is ready.

Are there any plans of AI update on "old" bot ? Because AI isnt even near the good state, or you just plan update AI only in updated project ?

 

[qzmicro]

I doubt they are going to waste their time updating the old code when they need to compile a whole new one.

-Q

 

[canadianbacon]

This post will provide the first detailed update for what's been going on behind the scenes with Hearthbuddy, as well as what's on the horizon.

To get started, a bot like Hearthbuddy is made up of three distinct layers. Picture a pyramid, for example. The bottom layer is made up of the client API. This API allows us to read information from the game and perform actions in the client in numerous ways. The middle layer is made up of various systems that are used to implement a game specific bot. This ranges from things like our coroutines library, a logging system, runtime code execution, and so on. The top layer is made up of the game specific logic that is implemented from the previous two layers. This is simply the AI and actual bot implementation for automating the game at hand.

Since the layers are built up on top of each other, changes in one layer will affect all the layers above it. In the ideal scenario, the bottom and middle layer will hardly ever change. The top layer will change as much as the game does in order to keep up to date and relevant. However, since it's the top layer, these changes do not affect the lower layers, and are relatively "cheap" to make in terms of time and effort. When changes are needed at the middle layer, more often than not, moderate to large changes are needed at the top layer to maintain comparability with the new design. Changes made at the bottom layer are by far the most "expensive" to make, as they cause a cascade effect of work that needs to be done throughout all layers.

For a little over the past 3 weeks, Hearthbuddy has been undergoing changes to the bottom and middle layers. The top layer will be re-addressed once these two layers are completed.

When looking at the majority of the big issues reported from users, we've found that almost all of them stem from problems with the client API or another middle layer system. These directly affect the top layer logic, and manifest themselves as random issues such as crashes, the bot not doing what it's supposed to (e.g., unable to play certain druid cards, mis-clicking on cards, or just not doing anything), and the inability to support common things users expect. While there are certain AI aspects that could be improved, having a perfect AI is irrelevant if the the layers upon which it is built is flawed to the point where it's unable to do the things it needs to. Considering our AI is far from perfect, the problem is magnified greatly.

A new Beta build of Hearthbuddy is being worked on that incorporates the new changes to not affect the current users of the Release version. These changes are so vast and sweeping that there's no way to work them into the current Release version while maintaining an usable bot. This new Beta version is not ready for users to test out yet, but the goal is to get everything setup and running as soon as possible. If I had to venture a guess before a usable Beta, I'd roughly say less than a month, to be on the safe side. However, things are subject to change as needed, as what is being done is pretty extensive. It should also be noted, the new Beta will be very feature limited at first, and not compare with what the Release version currently has, but it should provide us the foundation for the future to build and evolve the bot from.

Now, I'll go over some details about what has actually been changed with Hearthbuddy in the Beta version and what the current plans are for addressing a lot of user concerns.

First, our client API has been greatly expanded to support reading more information from the game. The current version used in Release has a modest set of functionality, but it is limited to the most basic types, and is missing a lot of things required to drastically improve the bot. For example, in the current API, client functions that return lists or arrays are not supported. This prevents us from implementing new functionality that relies on data only obtainable though those types of client functions. There have been a ton of other improvements in this regards to other types as well, but I can't get into the specific details because it's the core of the actual bot we're providing. Rest assured, we'll no longer be limited by being unable to read important information from the client like we currently are.

Second, we're updating the common libraries and setup of the bot. Hearthbuddy will update to .Net 4.5.1 and make use of several commonly used components our other bots do. This includes our new Coroutines library, log4net for logging, and IronPython for .Net Python support. In addition, the design of Hearthbuddy will be more in line with our other products to allow user development and customization, as opposed to the current setup where we provide one bot that is the entirety of Hearthbuddy. While I do not have details on the new setup for AI, the current goal is to work in a profile system to control the non-game play specific logic for automating the game. The idea is that if users want the ability to play a certain number of games of a type, then easily switch to another, they should be able to do so with a profile, which saves us a whole bunch of dev time as opposed to trying to code something that supports it.

Third, new methods for interacting with the client are being worked into the project. The single biggest giveaway for a bot being a bot is the lack of the client actions that are generated using normal input methods. We all know what these are, and how a lot of people have been bringing them up as being the primary means of identifying bots. These issues should be fully resolved when we're done with the rewrite, as the way we perform actions will be drastically changing. The bot will play the game like a human would, although, it might not always make the best decisions. However, identifying a bot based on good or bad decisions, is a lot harder than the obvious give-away currently from bot generated actions.

Those represent the three biggest points of interest that summarize what's being done with the Beta. In short, Hearthbuddy will perform actions like a human, will be able to read/process more relevant information, and will have a stable and reliable Buddybot setup that promotes community development. There's no need to get into the smaller specific issues yet, because those will fall into place once the big things are taken care of.

A point of emphasis needs to be made now. This thread is being made because we finally have the answers (or working solutions) to the majority of the problems that need to be solved (in terms of bottom/middle layer issues). Three weeks ago, it was known Hearthbuddy was in need of some updating, but the extent was unknown. Two weeks ago, a large number of core problems were identified and tracked down, but it was mostly research and hypothetical solutions. One week ago, working solutions and massive design changes were translated into reality, giving us something concrete to work from. At this point, we're ready to finish up that process and start moving into putting everything back together again.

That wraps up this first project update to inform users of the current project status. We'd like to thank users for their patience and continued support as we revamp to better suit their expectations and needs. We are paying attention to the forums and evaluating what we can do better in the future to successfully grow and provide a quality bot. I'm sure a lot of people are anxious to see new and exciting stuff, so please continue to be patient as we make all the preparations needed to move forward.

I'm sure there'll be a lot of questions about "if feature X will be added" or "can functionality Y be supported". The Beta version is not at that stage yet to respond to those types of questions yet, but the following points are relevant to those types of questions:

• Hearthbuddy will be receiving Buddystore support.
• "Solo Adventures" will be supported in phases (Normal/Expert Practice is the first priority, Naxx will come later)
• More emphasis on QoL features and extended functionality though profiles will be made once possible.
• New bot/development guides will be made once the design is finished and tested.

Thanks for reading.

Sorry.. but feeling a bit lost. I purchased the product feeling that it was different than hearthcrawler.. and the chance to get banned would be slimmer. I really don't want to get another account banned. Can you keep us up to date with ETA's on when the new release will be coming? I get things are being worked on, bugs being fixed.. people working on the alpha releases. Just some feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'm using the app on such a limited basis now.. as I'm sure a lot of people who are just as cautious are.

CB

 

[pushedx]

Sorry.. but feeling a bit lost. I purchased the product feeling that it was different than hearthcrawler.. and the chance to get banned would be slimmer. I really don't want to get another account banned. Can you keep us up to date with ETA's on when the new release will be coming? I get things are being worked on, bugs being fixed.. people working on the alpha releases. Just some feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'm using the app on such a limited basis now.. as I'm sure a lot of people who are just as cautious are.

CB

Hearthbuddy itself is not detected. If it was, we'd also have suffered a large ban wave, and these forums would be flooded with ban reports in the same way seen elsewhere.

However, there's certain aspects of Hearthbuddy that make it stand out as a bot, and those are being addressed first and foremost. My post was made to assure users we're on top of it, and are working towards making the changes necessary to avoid those issues. This was acknowledged before the ban waves though, and was us letting users know we're going to be making some big changes in the near future. Hawker added me to the project in October to help out, and I've been helping out since.

It's unfortunate the bans came, and people are a lot more jittery about botting now, but my post should go to show we were already making preparations and progress before anything happened, rather than waiting for something to happen, and then respond. The bans and expansion announcement have caused us to have to change our current plans and time table for what we want to do.

Botting is never safe, and there's no way we can prevent people from getting banned who excessively bot, and expect they can get away with it in a Blizzard game. However, there is a lot of things we can do better to avoid the bot from looking like a bot, and those things are being worked on as we speak.

There's no ETAs other than "as soon as possible", literally. A new thread detailing exactly what will be happening, as well as the current changes will be made soon still, right when a user testable version of a modified Release is ready. I can't give ETAs or the current plan, because those things are changing daily based on what we need to do, and are able to actually do to address the most important issues at hand now.

Right now, the final preparations are being made for a user testable version that changes the way the bot plays the game. It's not very polished, and there's a lot of things that need to be changed, but those changes would further delay users being able to use it by too much. When you're going in one direction full steam, and then have to change directions to respond to something else happening, you have to make a lot of decisions as to what gets included, and what doesn't. There's a lot of things that I'd like to get included, which just aren't possible right now.

All this will be explained in a new thread that will accompany the new Release version (Beta). I would really like to have everything setup and ready for user testing tomorrow, or Friday, but we'll just have to see if we can realistically reach those goals. While what we put out won't satisfy me in terms of what's seen, hopefully users will see enough improvements to have confidence we're heading in the right direction and are committed to the project.

 

[666]

Hearthbuddy itself is not detected. If it was, we'd also have suffered a large ban wave, and these forums would be flooded with ban reports in the same way seen elsewhere.

However, there's certain aspects of Hearthbuddy that make it stand out as a bot, and those are being addressed first and foremost. My post was made to assure users we're on top of it, and are working towards making the changes necessary to avoid those issues. This was acknowledged before the ban waves though, and was us letting users know we're going to be making some big changes in the near future. Hawker added me to the project in October to help out, and I've been helping out since.

It's unfortunate the bans came, and people are a lot more jittery about botting now, but my post should go to show we were already making preparations and progress before anything happened, rather than waiting for something to happen, and then respond. The bans and expansion announcement have caused us to have to change our current plans and time table for what we want to do.

Botting is never safe, and there's no way we can prevent people from getting banned who excessively bot, and expect they can get away with it in a Blizzard game. However, there is a lot of things we can do better to avoid the bot from looking like a bot, and those things are being worked on as we speak.

There's no ETAs other than "as soon as possible", literally. A new thread detailing exactly what will be happening, as well as the current changes will be made soon still, right when a user testable version of a modified Release is ready. I can't give ETAs or the current plan, because those things are changing daily based on what we need to do, and are able to actually do to address the most important issues at hand now.

Right now, the final preparations are being made for a user testable version that changes the way the bot plays the game. It's not very polished, and there's a lot of things that need to be changed, but those changes would further delay users being able to use it by too much. When you're going in one direction full steam, and then have to change directions to respond to something else happening, you have to make a lot of decisions as to what gets included, and what doesn't. There's a lot of things that I'd like to get included, which just aren't possible right now.

All this will be explained in a new thread that will accompany the new Release version (Beta). I would really like to have everything setup and ready for user testing tomorrow, or Friday, but we'll just have to see if we can realistically reach those goals. While what we put out won't satisfy me in terms of what's seen, hopefully users will see enough improvements to have confidence we're heading in the right direction and are committed to the project.

Awesome news,

Keep up the good job guys. We run private servers for various game and i feel you on the "things change so fast" part. One day everything is fine and the day after things need to be changed.