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German guy who knows Law comments on the Injunction

K

KiLLian

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Got this from blizzhackers. This guy seems to know what he's talking about.
(as you can see, he says its limited to Germany before Bossland posted it (after asking it to his lawyers) on this forum, etc)

Guess the case is not looking good atm with what the guy says about Hamburg and its judges :(.

Well Blizzard is smart where to fill C&D in Germany go to the court in Hamburg where corrupt lawyers and incompetent lawyers reside.
The court which signs every shit any company sends them.

In fact it looks like the judges in the Munich(Blizzards seat in Germany) court didn't sign the C&D letter, so they went to Hamburg.

The letter itself is really weak or Blizzards lawyer a retard or lazy bastard:

1. They aren't allowed sell/distribute Diablo 3(limited to D3. WoW is not a target) Bots(only automating is mentioned other he still could distribue/sell multihacks for example) anymore limited to Germany(they could add an IP Filter for Germany and still sell their stuff. Blizzard is really "smart". lol)

2. If he breaks the instruction he will have to pay up to 250.000 ?(a court will decide the fine depending on the severity) or he may go to jail up to 6 months/ decide to go to jail up to 6 months instead of paying the fine.(Blizzards lawyer can't do the math: 1 day in jail in Germany is counted as 250?--> x 180 = 45k ?. They could have proposed 1 year as max term.)

3. He has to pay the court fee for the C&D letter.

4. Amount of dispute is 250 k ?.(In Germany the amount of dispute will be set by his estimated gains. It's a common strategy by companies to create huge amounts (100-500k against normal people) to intimidate people not to go against it. For example the initial Apple vs Samsung C&D in Germany were 250 million ?)

That C&D letter has no basis and will be ripped into bits by a higher instance, which aren't the corrupt scumbags in Hamburg.
But first he will have to go against it in Hamburg, which will result in a loss ~5-10k costs (did I mention Hamburg courts contain only idiots?) and then go to the next instance.

Hamburgs courts even signed a C&D letter initiated by a quack doctor against a blogger who posted a youtube link several years ago containing an old critical report.
The blogger lost the case because the Hamburg court had the opinion the blogger posted the link to youtube without permission of the quacksalver(it may hurt his personal rights)

You can find even more hilarious juristic bullshit initiated by Hamburg.
Click to expand...

I pmmed him on blizzhacker forums (19/06) with 3 questions. His reply (and the questions) =


XXXXXXXXX said:
xKiLLian said:
I just read your post about the demonbuddy case and i was wondering if you knew if:

1: Demonbuddy can petition somebody (a higher court or so) to move the case to another city (like munich) or does it HAVE to be hamburg now?
Ty
Click to expand...

No I explain it to you.
First he has to go against the injunction at the same city(most likely he will loose, since Hamburg is known for doubious judges, lawyers) even if he wins Blizzard might appeal to a higher instance too.
Then he has the possibility to appeal to a higher instance called "Oberlandesgericht" and move the case to another court.(for example he can say that traveling to the Oberlandesgericht in Hamburg is unbearable cause he got a sick aunt to move it to Dresden or he can move it to Munich since Blizzards seat is there. Moneywise it would be smarter for him to move it to Munich, since Blizzard made the claim and if it stays in Hamburg or goes to Dresden they will their lawyers travel cost to his expenses during the case.

That court will test that injunction and most likely rip it apart since it got no basis. But it still may take several sessions.
It simply says: "Don't distribute D3 Bots" without mentioning copyright infrigement or something similar(which would make the case interesting)

The judge may decide that the decision is final and Blizzard can't appeal to the highest court in Germany.
But it doesn't prevent Blizzard to send another well prepared injunction.

If he looses again he might go to the highest court in Karlsruhe(then the case will cost him a fortune) on the other side it would be really interesting if a Gamehacker tries to get a leading decision in Germany.
Such a leading decision must be followed by every lower court and if the Gamehacker wins that would result that companies can't stop gamehackers to develop and distribute gamehacks since it's considered as own software.(Sadly it would require an injunction which includes copyright and the hacker had to argue something like: "I visited a gamehacker site", "I hired a RE to reverse code" or something similar.


xKiLLian said:
2: Howlong it takes for a court to rule on an injunction like this?
3: Howlong an appeal against a ruling (lets say they rule in blizz's favor) like this to get it overturned in germany?
Click to expand...
Appealing at the same instance ~1-6 months. But if he wins it's a given that Blizzard will go to the next instance.
Big companies don't care if they win or not.
If they go against normal people they try to intimate them. If they defend themselves the companies will try to ruin them and get a judgement by default because they lawyer and expenses can't be paid anymore.

If he goes to the next instance it will add 1-2 years. The final instance may add another 6-9 months.
Usually the final instance is faster cause it's damn expensive.
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Then kinda blows it's going through in Hamburg... >_< Sounds like Blizz (Actvision) got something right. But they're goin' DOWN!
 
Yeh but if they will have to go to higher instace to revoke this, it may take many months before case is finaly resloved...
 
Even if they lose in Hamburg, will the buddy team be able to update and sell the bot while waiting for the case to be taken into a higher instance?
 
Eisenberg said:
Yeh but if they will have to go to higher instace to revoke this, it may take many months before case is finaly resloved...
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Yes it will take months to appeal (and win) against Hamburg's ruling if they lose in Hamburg.

I love this Bot but i only see a few options for the Team.

1: IP-block the german IP's and release the new version that works with patch 1.03 tomorrow. (or in a few days)
2: Wait and see if they can get a ruling in Hamburg next week. If/when they lose they can then IP block the germans and release the working version for the other users and launch an appeal at a higher court
3: Wait and see for the ruling in Hamburg. Lose. Not release anything while appealing the Hamburg decision (=death of the bot imo, too many months)
4: Win @ Hamburg (which seems unlikely)
 
yep, sadly its true.

Feels like hambug is a part of usa since some time.(nothing against people from the states, but you have some of the most retarted lawsuits i have ever seen.)

We will have a bad time if the first hearing isnt in our favor.
 
:O Tony and the others must be told! :P
*and as if by magic he enters the thread*

Beetlejuice, beetlsejuice, beetlejuice!
 
So does this mean even though its not likely to be able to be sold/distributed in Germany, that sales would be allowed in the UK or US? I guess that would minimize any losses by having to refund users that aren't able to use the software for 2-3 months before it gets to the next level in the courts.
 
nice timing by blizz, just as next patch due out, think they got a method in the madness somewhere
 
KiLLian said:
Yes it will take months to appeal (and win) against Hamburg's ruling if they lose in Hamburg.

I love this Bot but i only see a few options for the Team.

1: IP-block the german IP's and release the new version that works with patch 1.03 tomorrow. (or in a few days)
2: Wait and see if they can get a ruling in Hamburg next week. If/when they lose they can then IP block the germans and release the working version for the other users and launch an appeal at a higher court
3: Wait and see for the ruling in Hamburg. Lose. Not release anything while appealing the Hamburg decision (=death of the bot imo, too many months)
4: Win @ Hamburg (which seems unlikely)
Click to expand...

But didnt this Injunction orders them to not sell at all, to everyone ? Surely thats in power of german court if bossland is registered in germany. I think that its gg with this, Blizzard has smimply used botter's weapon, which ich slowness of courts aganist them, and we are basically screwed in this case. I wont do a chargeback, because its just to small amount to bother, but as of tommorow im beggining looking for another bot.
 
Eisenberg said:
But didnt this Injunction orders them to not sell at all, to everyone ? Surely thats in power of german court if bossland is registered in germany. I think that its gg with this, Blizzard has smimply used botter's weapon, which ich slowness of courts aganist them, and we are basically screwed in this case. I wont do a chargeback, because its just to small amount to bother, but as of tommorow im beggining looking for another bot.
Click to expand...

The injunction only prohibits them to sell and distribute their software in germany plus it only adresses automation of game content. Meaning they could still sell it in other countries if they guarantee that the software is not distributed in germany. There are still some major law gaps i suppose because with an online shop u pretty much can't guarantee that at all (correct me if i'm wrong). Even if you block access from german ip ranges to the page and nav servers you would still be able to obtain it (vpn etc.). Plus it won't be enough just to block the nav server access from german ppl because the software itself is still capable of automation even without navigation (combat routines).

On the other hand the interim just forbids them distribution and selling if the DB company benefits from it ("zugunsten des eigenen oder eines fremden Unternehmens" - although this statement is very vague, as well as the complete interim), in theory they could just stop selling licenses and still provide the nav server (not shure about updates), even for german folks.
In addition german law determines that its the aggrieved partys (blizzard) duty to prove that the software can be obtained in germany - don't know if thats of any use in that case though.
 
buzzerbeater said:
yep, sadly its true.

Feels like hambug is a part of usa since some time.(nothing against people from the states, but you have some of the most retarted lawsuits i have ever seen.)

We will have a bad time if the first hearing isnt in our favor.
Click to expand...

Like the guy that was trying to rob a school and fell through the skylight and then sued the school for his injuries?

Fucking tell me about it /facepalm
 
Laws are always wrapped around money. It' s life! If only the South would have won that damn civil war!
 
Zaedon said:
Laws are always wrapped around money. It' s life! If only the South would have won that damn civil war!
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nucleotides said:
Cause we have to keep suppressing black people? /facepalm
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No kidding. The internet allowed for the wide dissemination of information and greater awareness of our world. But it also gave a voice to all stripes of idiots.
 
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