DK Lovers, your time has come

[droker4]

I need to know where Hungering Cold would be used in PvP. The detection of multiple attackers for the current version of HB will slow things down. So I really need to know when a good time would be to pop Hungering cold when doing PvP.

I usually will pop a HC when I'm low on health and I need those 10 secs to first aid and then attack the guy again, or if im outnumbered greatly and I want to get away I will use a hungering cold.

 

[Mordd]

I need a standard rotation. A rotation that uses your starting spells. For both PvE and PvP. I will have a test version out soon that will use the starting spells for both pve and pvp. But I need to get the max dps possible as it will be imbedded. Please dont point me to links elsewhere.

Assumes no talent points!

 

[Scattered]

I need a standard rotation. A rotation that uses your starting spells. For both PvE and PvP. I will have a test version out soon that will use the starting spells for both pve and pvp. But I need to get the max dps possible as it will be imbedded. Please dont point me to links elsewhere.

Assumes no talent points!

Looking at the starting (untalented) spells I'd say the best rotation would be:

Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

Death Strike is also usable from level 56 and gives a HP boost but for pure damage/levelling I'd still say Blood Strike is preferable.

 

[panYama]

nice to see you going back on dk's aswell they where all good if you asked me unlucky you didn't continue , but welcome back looking forward to it.

 

[donnamonna]

What are all possible openers, both in PvE and PvP ? right now it will use Deathgrip, or Dark Command if in PvE, but are there any other options anyone would use?

I usually open with Death and Decay and then Deathgrip the mob into it for PVE. That uses an excessive amount of runes but I have sort of modified my rotation around that. But Deathgrip and Dark Command are pretty standard as far as PVE openers go. If you have enough runic power at the start of a pull throwing off a Death Coil at the target is good as well. It seems like the logic for that would be pretty easy: If runic power = 40 or higher cast Death Coil, else cast Deathgrip/Dark Command. Although I would say that Deathgrip is preferable to Dark Command because it immediately starts your melee auto-attack as opposed to waiting for your mob to get in range and then having to start swinging. The smart move would be to get the Glyph of Deathgrip while leveling and you can start every pull with one.

For PVP I usually open with Chains of Ice and then immediately apply diseases, unless I am facing a caster in which case I will open with Strangulate > Deathgrip > Chains of Ice. There should be some logic there to determine if you are facing a Shaman's Grounding Totem before you cast Deathgrip.

After the opener the rotation is pretty much standard for PVE and PVP, if you assume no talent points.

Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Death Strike > Death Coil and then repeat for single target

Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Pestilence > Blood Boil > Death Strike > Death Coil and then repeat for multiple targets

 

[donnamonna]

Death Strike is also usable from level 56 and gives a HP boost but for pure damage/levelling I'd still say Blood Strike is preferable.

Death Strike is a FU(frost/unholy) ability whereas Blood Strike costs one Blood rune. It costs you nothing to cast Death Strike in a rotation as long as your diseases are already applied. Meaning you don't have to sacrifice Blood Strikes in order to cast Death Strikes. One Death Strike is equivalent to one application of both diseases (Icy Touch, Plague Strike) as far as rune cost goes. So during one rune cycle you should be able to get 1 Icy Touch, 1 Plague Strike, 2 Blood Strikes and 1 Death Strike. If you cast Icy Touch and Plague Strike twice in the same rune cycle you are pretty much gimping your overall DPS in my opinion, so your best bet is to use the extra Frost and Unholy rune to cast that Death Strike at the end of the rotation. Good DPS and self-healing to boot.

 

[prepster]

I would agree with donnamonna Death Strike would be great. As for me I am currently opening with Death Grip every pull. Seeing as it increases my overall xp/hour distinctly. Glyph of Death Grip ftw . But again I would recommend throwing a Death Strike at the end of rotation even in pvp it wouldn't be to shabby. Thanks

 

[I3ig Al]

i would like to point out that while the above rotations are correct, in many situations you may not have enough runic power for a death coil at the end of the first pass, so something needs to be included that prevents getting stuck trying to cast death coil repeatedly until it fires.

if you really want to go all out you could try and put some logic that takes into account the proc buffs to make a priority system instead of a standard rotation? for example if Killing Machine and Rime buffs are active use Howling Blast, or for unholy if Desolation is not active use a Blood Strike. another one is that if all runes are on cooldown use horn of winter, or death coil.

 

[donnamonna]

i would like to point out that while the above rotations are correct, in many situations you may not have enough runic power for a death coil at the end of the first pass, so something needs to be included that prevents getting stuck trying to cast death coil repeatedly until it fires.

if you really want to go all out you could try and put some logic that takes into account the proc buffs to make a priority system instead of a standard rotation? for example if Killing Machine and Rime buffs are active use Howling Blast, or for unholy if Desolation is not active use a Blood Strike. another one is that if all runes are on cooldown use horn of winter, or death coil.

I think he's looking for a spec-independnet rotation. Factoring in three different specs would greatly over-complicate things. What's needed is something you could put any DK into and have him do passably well, regardless of whether he is Blood, Unholy or Frost. And I do agree about needing logic when it comes to Death Coils. I mentioned something about it in my earlier post. It should be easy enough to check runic power and if it's high enough cast Death Coil, else resume normal rotation.

 

[Mordd]

I really love how you guys are debating rotations and such, its great! In the end everyone will have control over their own rotations, but to start with there will be pre set rotations for those that just want to click a button and go. I am basically rewriting the entire CC, alot of the old code is gone and its following the convalesce core almost to the tee. Right now I am looking for a level 55 rotation. No talents, no other abilities. It will be for those just starting out. Then I will be moving onto other rotations and we can get into the reall nitty gritty of max dps rotations when I start to count runes and such.

BTW death coil will only cast if you have the RP for it, it will not get stuck.

 

[Scattered]

Death Strike is a FU(frost/unholy) ability whereas Blood Strike costs one Blood rune. It costs you nothing to cast Death Strike in a rotation as long as your diseases are already applied. Meaning you don't have to sacrifice Blood Strikes in order to cast Death Strikes. One Death Strike is equivalent to one application of both diseases (Icy Touch, Plague Strike) as far as rune cost goes. So during one rune cycle you should be able to get 1 Icy Touch, 1 Plague Strike, 2 Blood Strikes and 1 Death Strike. If you cast Icy Touch and Plague Strike twice in the same rune cycle you are pretty much gimping your overall DPS in my opinion, so your best bet is to use the extra Frost and Unholy rune to cast that Death Strike at the end of the rotation. Good DPS and self-healing to boot.

Yup, that's a perfect rotation once the character hits 56 and gets Death Strike. Until then though (Mordd's original request was for a brand new DK) there are limited options, hence re-using IT and PS before dumping.

 

[I3ig Al]

ok then, if you want a bare minimum any spec rotation it will be something like this:

Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> if multiple mobs Pestilence, else Blood Strike -> if multiple mobs Blood Boil, else Blood Strike -> Death Strike -> Death Coil

the key to the any spec part is death strike, because its not talented like scourge strike or dependent on talents like obliterate. once you start getting into the spec details you will need to account for the following things (this is probably going to be a big list, i love theorycrafting):

Bone Shield being down

diseases being less than three seconds from falling, need to refresh

glyph of Disease, wich refreshes the diseases on the main target without having to do icy touch/plague strike again, freeing those runes for another death strike

Frost Strike instead of death coil

Killing Machine,try and save for a Rime Proc to get a free howling blast crit

Rime, try and save for Killing Machine proc to get a free howling blast crit, else use before it falls and gets wasted

if specced for [URL="http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51473"]Annihilation[/URL] use Obliterate instead of Death Strike

logic to make use of death runes for additional FU strikes

annnd that is the stuff i can think of right now, will come back and add more as i think of them

the one about saving killing machine for howling blast i dunno how you would account for that... it would mean specifically NOT using icy touch or frost strike for the duration in order to save it for howling blast when rime procs, wich throws off the rotations quite alot. you can probably just ignore this thing and do just fine, im just giving your the max dps version.

 

[donnamonna]

Yup, that's a perfect rotation once the character hits 56 and gets Death Strike. Until then though (Mordd's original request was for a brand new DK) there are limited options, hence re-using IT and PS before dumping.

Doh!, right you are

So then more like:

Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Dump then repeat.

That's about as generic as it can get. I dis-remember when Pestilence and Blood Boil enter the picture so using them on multiple mobs may not be an option for starting DK's.

 

[I3ig Al]

I dis-remember when Pestilence and Blood Boil enter the picture so using them on multiple mobs may not be an option for starting DK's.

Mordd's other CC Convalesce for paladins works with upcoming skills. just set it to use whichever skills you like and when the character learns them it will start using them, i assume he will use a similar system for DKs given the variety of skills and specs one can use.

 

[Scattered]

Pest is level 56 and Blood Boil level 58. Both of which should definitely be used in rotations (depending on the getAdds())

To summarise the above posts I think:

55+ | Death Grip as an opener if it's not on cooldown.

55 | Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

56+ | Single Target = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

56-57 | Multiple Targets = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Pestilence > Blood Strike > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

58-59 | Multiple Targets = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Pestilence > Blood Boil > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

60-64 | Multiple Mobs use Death & Decay > Death Grip OR Death Coil

65 | Multiple Mobs use Death & Decay > Death Grip OR Dark Command OR Death Coil

All of the above is untalented.

 

[donnamonna]

Nicely put Scattered!

 

[Mordd]

Pest is level 56 and Blood Boil level 58. Both of which should definitely be used in rotations (depending on the getAdds())

To summarise the above posts I think:

55+ | Death Grip as an opener if it's not on cooldown.

55 | Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

56+ | Single Target = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Blood Strike > Blood Strike > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

56-57 | Multiple Targets = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Pestilence > Blood Strike > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

58-59 | Multiple Targets = Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Pestilence > Blood Boil > Death Strike > Death Coil > (REPEAT)

60-64 | Multiple Mobs use Death & Decay > Death Grip OR Death Coil

65 | Multiple Mobs use Death & Decay > Death Grip OR Dark Command OR Death Coil

All of the above is untalented.

Very cooool

 

[prepster]

I was just thinking of a request. Maybe you can implement a presence change. For example Unholy for Pve.. Blood/Frost for Pvp?

 

[Scattered]

No worries on the summary; just trying to help out if I can.

All right, we got white DK, black DK, Spanish DK, yellow DK, we got hot DK, cold DK, we got wet DK, we got [sniff] smelly DK, we got hairy DK, bloody DK, we got snapping DK, we got silk DK, velvet DK, Naugahyde DK, we even got horse DK, dog DK, chicken DK.

Come on you want DK, come on in DK lovers!

If we don't got it you don't want it! COME ON IN DK LOVERS!

The above is the first thing that came to mind when I read the thread title by the way. ^_^

 

[donnamonna]

All right, we got white DK, black DK, Spanish DK, yellow DK, we got hot DK, cold DK, we got wet DK, we got [sniff] smelly DK, we got hairy DK, bloody DK, we got snapping DK, we got silk DK, velvet DK, Naugahyde DK, we even got horse DK, dog DK, chicken DK.

Come on you want DK, come on in DK lovers!

If we don't got it you don't want it! COME ON IN DK LOVERS!

Bummer...no spicy DK. I loves me some spicy DK.