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Disable follow to catch bots in BG. ( blue post)

Cukie said:
Yes it is. But honestly what % of people do you think that USE CTM are honest players? Since you have to turn it on, and it isn't on by default, I would guess that the vast majority of honest WoW players have no idea it even exists. I would bet anything that 95% of all users of CTM are botters.
Click to expand...

A good example of why Blizz has no idea what they are doing. No bots use follow anymore.
 
The bit about CTM isn't who uses and who doesn't. It is down to the information sent back to the server when you do perform a CTM action. Obviously there is a difference between pressing forward on your keyboard to move closer to a target versus using CTM/IWT that tells your client to move to X,Y,Z coordinates.

The latter can be reasonably parsed by scripts on the server. The former? Not so much.
 
For the sake of simplicity, say I need to go to x=5, y=10, z=15. Perhaps, as other have suggested, there could be a small amount of leeway. Like, the x coordinate is randomized with a range of 0.5 (so 4.75-5.25).

Obviously smaller ranges would be better to avoid stucks, but with more precise coordinates that doesn't become a problem. I.e., x=357.850, range of 0.025, possible outcomes 357.862 to 357.837. That won't muck stuff up very much in most cases, but will send a variety of non-exactly-similar commands to blizz servers
 
LowKey said:
For the sake of simplicity, say I need to go to x=5, y=10, z=15. Perhaps, as other have suggested, there could be a small amount of leeway. Like, the x coordinate is randomized with a range of 0.5 (so 4.75-5.25).

Obviously smaller ranges would be better to avoid stucks, but with more precise coordinates that doesn't become a problem. I.e., x=357.850, range of 0.025, possible outcomes 357.862 to 357.837. That won't muck stuff up very much in most cases, but will send a variety of non-exactly-similar commands to blizz servers
Click to expand...


Alternatively you could do away with CTM by just looking at where the player currently is and where you want to go. Keypress forward and continue on until a random minimum has been reached (out of combat) or stick to target (combat). If there are a set of coordinates between point A and point B that are blacklisted then the bot should be looking at alternative routes in the mesh. Maybe just use IWT in combat but then you could be led off ledges.

Something like the following:

Player X:50, Y:20

Moveto X:50, Y:18


Obstruction starts at X:50, Y:19 and continues to X:51, Y:19

Obstruction triggers an alternative route request. Mesh is looked at, sees obstruction continues to X:51, Y:19, so the bot cannot go up the X axis. There are no obstructions down the X axis so it should continue on the Y axis but slightly down the X axis. This will force the bot to maneuver around the obstruction.
 
There is no difference to using WASD and CTM as far as the server knows. So lets drop that argument now.

If Blizzard ever decides to kill the CTM option entirely, it's 3 lines of code on our end to switch over to WASD-like movement. We use CTM because it's more precise, and less error prone.
 
Apoc said:
There is no difference to using WASD and CTM as far as the server knows. So lets drop that argument now.

If Blizzard ever decides to kill the CTM option entirely, it's 3 lines of code on our end to switch over to WASD-like movement. We use CTM because it's more precise, and less error prone.
Click to expand...

It is possible to go AFK when using only CTM, this was the case with Piroxbot (about 1-3 years ago) and he then started using WASD movement with CTM.. and that <Away> tag never happened.

EDIT: You can see a screenshot in my plugin thread "AlwaysHere" for evidence of this.
 
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Apoc said:
There is no difference to using WASD and CTM as far as the server knows. So lets drop that argument now.

If Blizzard ever decides to kill the CTM option entirely, it's 3 lines of code on our end to switch over to WASD-like movement. We use CTM because it's more precise, and less error prone.
Click to expand...

So what do you think it caused all these bans and why?
 
Soldiersbane said:
Player reports.

More people are botting now than ever before, and I hate to say it, but botters are reporting botters.
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I think Blizzard found something anyway, I know that botters report botters, but there were so many bans. People getting 20+ accounts banned in a row.
I got 6.
It was probably a clean up before 5.2, but there were a lot of bans in the past few weeks.
 
furyz0r said:
I think Blizzard found something anyway, I know that botters report botters, but there were so many bans. People getting 20+ accounts banned in a row.
I got 6.
It was probably a clean up before 5.2, but there were a lot of bans in the past few weeks.
Click to expand...

It isn't too hard to look at other bots in a botting ring.
 
Apoc said:
There is no difference to using WASD and CTM as far as the server knows. So lets drop that argument now.
Click to expand...


How certain are you of this statement?

Assuming that the entire CTM mechanism is really just the client issuing 'forward' requests until it hits the location it wants, what leads you to believe certain IWT/CTM information isn't being shared with the server?


Now that I think about it you may be right because when using IWT/CTM the player moves to where the target was, not to where the target is. So there is a delay in the information received. But this could be simple latency too as the client is always going to be one step behind.


More to the point however lets assume CTM is really just the client sending forward commands until it reaches the point it wants.

Lets then say Blizzard has started looking at profiles and seeing for themselves what coordinates are being used. This is pretty easy to do. Next they have a system they develop that takes into account the zone and an array of coordinates obtained from looking at the bot work. That information is then routinely checked by the client to see if the player has used those coordinates in sequence to what Blizzard was expecting. Entirely automated it then alerts the server to the player's activity and the server flags the account.

This would require 0 player reports.


They could even track your last 10 coordinates based on an amount of time you've been idle. Lets say 3 seconds. Then those 10 coordinates are checked again for similarities.
 
Yes I'm sure Blizzard downloads public profiles and then manually go through all of them and enters the checkpoints into their anti-bot system to spot botters.... seriously ????
 
i use CTM to move..but im assuming that wont matter cause i dont repeat my routes over and over again....Will randomizing hotspots help or the only real way to avoid is a custom large and long path gather profile?

Also does WOW register if using CTM which tiles were clicked and when in a given path to see if that path is exactly followed over and over again? How else would they catch people...most nodes spawn in the exact same spot so its not outside the realm of reality that people (non botters) would follow a similar path.....ive watched GB and it follows a predetermined path but depending on where u are on that path when it picks up a node in range...it takes a direct route to that node....and not always the same path. So how are they monitoring?
 
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I don't understand how people are getting banned through BGBuddy. I've been using the bot to PvP ever since Cata and have fully geared out at least 10 characters twice in PvP gear and have NEVER been banned...never even got a warning or suspension. Have clocked in probably at least 500+ hours botting in battlegrounds alone.
 
ADB said:
How certain are you of this statement?

Assuming that the entire CTM mechanism is really just the client issuing 'forward' requests until it hits the location it wants, what leads you to believe certain IWT/CTM information isn't being shared with the server?


Now that I think about it you may be right because when using IWT/CTM the player moves to where the target was, not to where the target is. So there is a delay in the information received. But this could be simple latency too as the client is always going to be one step behind.


More to the point however lets assume CTM is really just the client sending forward commands until it reaches the point it wants.

Lets then say Blizzard has started looking at profiles and seeing for themselves what coordinates are being used. This is pretty easy to do. Next they have a system they develop that takes into account the zone and an array of coordinates obtained from looking at the bot work. That information is then routinely checked by the client to see if the player has used those coordinates in sequence to what Blizzard was expecting. Entirely automated it then alerts the server to the player's activity and the server flags the account.

This would require 0 player reports.


They could even track your last 10 coordinates based on an amount of time you've been idle. Lets say 3 seconds. Then those 10 coordinates are checked again for similarities.
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This is why im asking....what good would that do...given the unpredictable variables of random players taking nodes and nodes spawing and drawing the bot at different spots would not generate the same paths over and over again. only certain parts of the path would be the same. It doesnt get node...go back to spot it picked it up then start path again..it picks up node in range...takes direct route then starts path again from node...different spot evertime atleast for my pc..depending on what im doing in the backround...slower or faster depending on cpu usage at the time of pickup
 
LunaticFringe said:
This is why im asking....what good would that do...given the unpredictable variables of random players taking nodes and nodes spawing and drawing the bot at different spots would not generate the same paths over and over again. only certain parts of the path would be the same. It doesnt get node...go back to spot it picked it up then start path again..it picks up node in range...takes direct route then starts path again from node...different spot evertime atleast for my pc..depending on what im doing in the backround...slower or faster depending on cpu usage at the time of pickup
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when halo 3 came out bungie implemented a heatmap system, that showed things like deaths, on different maps. so when you take a look at the image they generated, it was very easy to tell where people where at and what they where doing in any round. its possible for blizzard to do something similar server side and look for odd locations with high traffic. it is impossible to know what they are doing server side.

if you want more info on how heatmaps worked in halo 3 check out this link
http://www.coolinfographics.com/blog/2009/1/12/halo-3-heatmaps.html

as far as them disabling /follow, its ONLY going to affect /follow bots. (since we dont use /follow in battlegrounds) its not an issue. for the life of me i cant remember the last time i ever saw a /follow bot in battlegrounds. 2010 called and it wants its honor leaching programs back.
 
A GM should setup a toon view swap to anyone on server currently using CTM... Would catch a lot more booters >.>
 
Goshinki said:
A GM should setup a toon view swap to anyone on server currently using CTM... Would catch a lot more booters >.>
Click to expand...
CTM is done client side, the server cant tell who is using click to move and who is not.
therefore a GM wouldn't be able to be like "i wanna see all the people in this zone using click to move"
 
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