32bit

[Zeewolf]

Please take note, this is not a thread of should HB be 32bit or 64bit. Please do not comment on that.. its has been discussed many times and will not contribute to the point of this.

I have genuine question here for HB users, are any of you running 32bit windows on your machines?

Some information and context:
64bit CPUs have been around for a very long time now, with the continual advance of the game and technology there is not actually ANY 32bit processor that meets the minimum requirements for WoW and its almost certain that everyone that plays wow even below the minimum spec does actually have a 64bit processor installed in their machine. Still having a 64bit processor does not mean you have 64bit windows running on it.

In spite of the lack of 32bit processors Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and even Windows 10 are all still available in 32bit versions. In the case of windows 8 onwards the OS requires processor features that were not present on 32bit processors so it almost (!) makes no sense for Microsoft to make a 32bit build at all. Stranger still I have seen cases of leading manufacturers shipping new machines with a 32bit version of windows preinstalled and on recovery disks. If you are somehow not aware of the details 64bit windows can run everything that 32bit windows can run.

There are two reasons for 32bit windows to still exist.
1) some ancient hardware may not have 64bit drivers ever written, my workplace have some label printing machines in its manufacturing area that have no current drivers but those devices still function so still have to be supported.
2) its not possible to do an in-place upgrade of windows from 32bit to 64bit, the machine needs to be freshly installed as 64bit.

I am asking because I would personally would consider an HB user slightly more PC savvy than your dear old gran that can barely operate a mouse and therefore would more than likely be running 64bit machines, but I could also be wrong.

 

[ryftobuddy]

A better question is...

Why do you want this information from us?

 

[Zeewolf]

Curiosity after looking at the steam hardware survey figures, which got a bit of attention recently due to them seeming to show the vive winning the VR race by some margin.

Based on steam users 85.21% are using 64bit windows, 10.26% were running 32bit windows and the rest were on other platforms.

If at some point devs did decide to make a change, would there be a sudden outcry of people coming out to object to it because they might be forced to consider rebuilding or buying a new OS?

 

[Ryzon]

There are still lots of good reasons to use a 32-bit OS. Not so much on the Desktop/Laptop, but there's no good reason to use a 64-bit OS on a platform targeted at tablets, smartphones, embedded systems, etc... that have less than 4GB of RAM. M$, Apple, Linux, etc... are all targeting their OS at multiple platforms and maintain builds for all platforms based on the same codebase.

As for 64-bit HB, I could be incorrect but I think that all of the Buddybots are based on the same framework. RebornBuddy recently came out with a 64-bit/DX11 version in addition to the 32-bit/DX9 version and Mastahg does an excellent job at maintaining both.

 

[Zeewolf]

Lots of reasons? but you dont name any.. I'm not sure why you are referencing mobile phones and embedded systems? Last time I checked the till at my local supermarket was not running WoW , even then most of those are still 64bit capable they didn't keep making 32bit processors just especially for them. I only say mostly because places like retailers will keep those machines till they can no longer be patched up and you do still see places running ancient tills on XPE, but they are not ever going to be running wow.

If the CPU installed in the machine is 64bit and you are not catering for a specific bit of old hardware with no 64bit driver there is no reason to choose installing a 32bit OS.

Believe me I've come across this topic alot with several companies I've worked for or supported, there are 'things' here and there. Like if you run business objects and use its excel addons those dont work in 64bit office, but you can still install 32bit office on 64bit machine. There's a thing in VB scriping where if you use createobject or getobject to invoke a 32bit activeX/com object from a 64bit script it doesnt work, but on 64 bit windows you just run the script under the 32bit version of wscript/cscript specifically and its all fine. The biggest of these things so far was that if you didnt have VT-d/AMD-V enabled on a processor then you could not put 64bit windows inside a VM guest even if your host OS was 64bit.

 

[pytte]

my wow VM's run 32bit ..

 

[Ryzon]

I do a lot of work with embedded systems and when you're trying to absolutely minimize hardware costs, more bits does not always make sense. Think of it in terms of the bit wars with images. At first we had 1 bit monochrome graphics. Then followed 2 bit cga which provided a whopping 4 colors. Then came 4 bit ega and 16 colors, 8 bit vga and so on. Eventually we reached 32-bit color which has a color gradient beyond what the human eye is capable of seeing. At that point there is no reason to go any further. 64-bit images would just be a waste of resources since they take twice as much memory. 32-bit cpu's are kind of at the inflection point for embedded systems, etc... and using 64-bit is just going to raise the production cost. On the flip side, software developers like M$, Apple, etc... are trying to keep their software development costs down and converge their OS to support all platforms with a single codebase.

 

[TurboNerd]

Personally, no I upgraded to 64-bit a long time ago for my home system. That said, I've had to support computers that still run DoS on old Pentium 2 processors because the hardware they control has not had updated software written for it, so I whole-heartedly understand WHY 32-bit still exists. Think about this, the computer that reads your address on a letter, cross checks it against the change of address database, and sprays the barcode that ultimately says where it goes is a computer that has less power than the smart phone you carry... because it's cheaper to maintain old shit than to write all new software for specialized machines.

Also just an aside, 32 bit based systems are actually a hell of a lot easier to reverse engineer, it's why most bots remain 32 bit, so if for no other reason than my lazy habits, god bless out dated tech xD

 

[Zeewolf]

"using 64-bit is just going to raise the production cost"

CPU manufacturers arent keeping lines open just to keep 32bit CPUs going, if you are working with embedded systems that are still shipping using 32bit CPUs then the news for you is that those are going to be in limited supply, It costs money to keep multiple production lines open. There may be off brand CPUs where the main runs are 32bit but not from Intel and AMD which are the machines going to be used in the computers of the Wow playing public, both have not manufactured 32bit for years.

 

[Aion]

Lots of reasons? but you dont name any.. I'm not sure why you are referencing mobile phones and embedded systems? Last time I checked the till at my local supermarket was not running WoW , even then most of those are still 64bit capable they didn't keep making 32bit processors just especially for them. I only say mostly because places like retailers will keep those machines till they can no longer be patched up and you do still see places running ancient tills on XPE, but they are not ever going to be running wow.

If the CPU installed in the machine is 64bit and you are not catering for a specific bit of old hardware with no 64bit driver there is no reason to choose installing a 32bit OS.

Believe me I've come across this topic alot with several companies I've worked for or supported, there are 'things' here and there. Like if you run business objects and use its excel addons those dont work in 64bit office, but you can still install 32bit office on 64bit machine. There's a thing in VB scriping where if you use createobject or getobject to invoke a 32bit activeX/com object from a 64bit script it doesnt work, but on 64 bit windows you just run the script under the 32bit version of wscript/cscript specifically and its all fine. The biggest of these things so far was that if you didnt have VT-d/AMD-V enabled on a processor then you could not put 64bit windows inside a VM guest even if your host OS was 64bit.

Do you realize, that steam is nothing.

Check just one fact there - howmany Chinese computers steam have in its DB? 1%?

Now check howmany they actually have - more than 500 millions!

All other data is useless then.

 

[Trixiap]

Also don´t forgot, that there are some usage of 32bit over 64bit.

Let´s say Antivirus engines. For sure I know that ESET and Kaspersky are using 32bit for some parts of AV engine (other parts are in 64bit) because 32bit run better (faster, safer etc) even on 64bit computer.

So when you see 32bit SW it doesn´t mean that author is lazy. It can mean that author of that code is well aware of limitations and performance issues with 32 vs 64bit code and can make code run better in 32bit environment.

 

[Ryzon]

"using 64-bit is just going to raise the production cost"

CPU manufacturers arent keeping lines open just to keep 32bit CPUs going, if you are working with embedded systems that are still shipping using 32bit CPUs then the news for you is that those are going to be in limited supply, It costs money to keep multiple production lines open. There may be off brand CPUs where the main runs are 32bit but not from Intel and AMD which are the machines going to be used in the computers of the Wow playing public, both have not manufactured 32bit for years.

Do you notice those smart card chips that are in every credit/debit card in your wallet now days? 8 and 16-bit CPU's are still very much alive. Did you warm your breakfast leftovers in a microwave? Chances are it uses an 80186 cpu and trust me, production lines for those processors are as healthy as ever. Just because your Desktop/Laptop is 64-bit doesn't mean you're not surrounded by everything 64-bit. You have to take a holistic view of it. The transistor count, power requirements, production costs, licensing of IP, etc... go up exponentially as you increase the bit count. On the flip side, M$ wants Windows in your tablet, smartphone, ATM card, anywhere they can get it. So, they target the lowest common denominator that can run it which for now is 32-bit processors. I don't see that changing for a long time since as I said, 32-bit seems to be the inflection point where you hit the law of diminishing returns.

 

[Ryzon]

VB scriping

Hehe.

 

[Zeewolf]

Do you realize, that steam is nothing.

Check just one fact there - howmany Chinese computers steam have in its DB? 1%?

Now check howmany they actually have - more than 500 millions!

All other data is useless then.

No it doesnt cover everybody, it is however probably the largest representative sample of people who use their machine for any sort of gaming. It probably picks up a significant number of people that are under spec for wow too considering there are plenty of indy games on steam like braid and papers please that would quite happily run on my work laptop that doesnt stand a chance of being able to run wow.

Since you make the point, Are you aware of china having other processors that are capable of running windows and wow?

 

[Zeewolf]

Do you notice those smart card chips that are in every credit/debit card in your wallet now days? 8 and 16-bit CPU's are still very much alive. Did you warm your breakfast leftovers in a microwave? Chances are it uses an 80186 cpu and trust me, production lines for those processors are as healthy as ever. Just because your Desktop/Laptop is 64-bit doesn't mean you're not surrounded by everything 64-bit. You have to take a holistic view of it. The transistor count, power requirements, production costs, licensing of IP, etc... go up exponentially as you increase the bit count. On the flip side, M$ wants Windows in your tablet, smartphone, ATM card, anywhere they can get it. So, they target the lowest common denominator that can run it which for now is 32-bit processors. I don't see that changing for a long time since as I said, 32-bit seems to be the inflection point where you hit the law of diminishing returns.

And do you run windows and wow on those... no, so are they relevant here.. no

 

[Zeewolf]

Hehe.

Its all about the powershell nowadays I know, but you can still invoke COM through powershell... not sure you would want to but you can

 

[Ryzon]

And do you run windows and wow on those... no, so are they relevant here.. no

No, but they are relevant to why M$ keeps making 32-bit versions of Windows which I through was the original question of this thread. Perhaps a better question would have been why do they keep supporting DX9 in WoW.

 

[Honorbuddyuser1]

32 bit? Lol. Are you even serious? That's like asking if I ride a horse to work or if I use a whale oil lamp. Sorry bro. The only reason I ever use a 32 bit anything is to run this bot. 32 bit... Lol

 

[raphus]

Curiosity after looking at the steam hardware survey figures, which got a bit of attention recently due to them seeming to show the vive winning the VR race by some margin.

Based on steam users 85.21% are using 64bit windows, 10.26% were running 32bit windows and the rest were on other platforms.

If at some point devs did decide to make a change, would there be a sudden outcry of people coming out to object to it because they might be forced to consider rebuilding or buying a new OS?

This is a small snapshot of our usage statistics from China:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgbqwun1b67m1ha/shot_160718_100216.png?dl=0

Things run different on asian countries and they are still a big market for us.

That's one of the reasons why we will be seamlessly supporting both 32bit and 64bit WoW with the same Legionbuddy client.

 

[ryftobuddy]

32 bit? Lol. Are you even serious? That's like asking if I ride a horse to work or if I use a whale oil lamp. Sorry bro. The only reason I ever use a 32 bit anything is to run this bot. 32 bit... Lol

You use 32-bit for a lot more than you think. I'm willing to bet that more than half the programs you run on a daily basis are still using 32-bit architecture.