The "Ninja-Nodes" option - a discussion

[devious21]

Someone else made a post about this earlier: http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorbuddy-forum/107666-devs-please-read.html
While that thread ended up getting closed and they ended up getting banned for it due to terrible moderation practices, the point of these forums is to allow discussion so I am making this thread to allow for just that, discussion of an important issue.

To the point:
The ninja-node option should be removed from honorbuddy.
Why? because it's bad for all of you. You might be an idiot and think "MORE RISK MORE REWARD LOLOL", but what you fail to realize is that you are increasing the risk for EVERYONE, not just yourself.
Believe it or not, there are people that actually play the game by hand, and when they are trying to grab a herb and you swoop down in bird-form and take it from them, it pisses them off.
It makes them hate botters. This is a problem when you realize that my dog could determine who is a bot and who isn't - honorbuddy is terrible at mimicking human behavior at the moment.
So while you may be okay with them reporting YOU, for being a dumbass with who is using the ninja node functionality, you're also making people angry and angry people will report all bots.
I have seen people literally just camping nodes on their mounts, waiting for bots to come by so they can report them. Is this only because someone ninjaed their node? Probably not, but did ninjaing motivate some of them? Definitely.

Just think back to Cataclysm. This was before I botted and I tried to herb manually in Uldum. I didn't give a shit if bots were competing with me, but it would make me furious when I was already looting a herb and a tauren druid would swoop in and ninja it with their reduced herbalism time.

So assuming the forum police don't swoop in and close the thread for absolutely no reason, we can have a discussion about whether this feature should stay or go.
In my opinion, it shouldn't exist at all. Even a few idiots using it is bad for all of us.

 

[LowKey]

I see people do this all the time that aren't bots. I do it sometimes back to people who did it to me when I'm not botting. Ninjaing a node isn't a clear indication of botting.

It really isn't the best setting, certainly it's risky, but if people care about maximizing their profits with a highly increased chance of losing their account(s), let them. Ninja nodes not being on by default is the best option we could hope for.

That 'other' thread was just silly. Dude seemed to think he owned all the nodes, and that the nodes would never respawn.

 

[devious21]

I see people do this all the time that aren't bots. I do it sometimes back to people who did it to me when I'm not botting. Ninjaing a node isn't a clear indication of botting.

It really isn't the best setting, certainly it's risky, but if people care about maximizing their profits with a highly increased chance of losing their account(s), let them. Ninja nodes not being on by default is the best option we could hope for.

That 'other' thread was just silly. Dude seemed to think he owned all the nodes, and that the nodes would never respawn.

I think he was just a little angry. Our threads had the same general point, he just didn't describe it as well
Anyway, as botters our goal should be to fly under the radar, not call attention to ourselves by angering players.

 

[alpha2twin]

Ya I can see where this is something that could be looked at but then again, quite a lot of botters care too much about their profit as LowKey said and if you want to be the bigger man here then leave it disabled like I'm sure the majority of decent people do

Also while we're on the topic of under the radar, I've noticed that I keep getting an <Away> tag beside my name after a certain amount of time if I don'y manually push a button. It seems like an even bigger giveaway when you are running around in a BG or grinding mobs lol

Any of you guys notice this?

 

[lotrodude]

Personally, I am extremely non agressive when it comes to world pvp and taking a node that someone else has cleared. However, I believe in freedom of speech, the right to choose, and the freedom to be a dumbass. So, if a guy wants to be a dumbass, let him use the ninja node. If he gets reported for botting and gets caught botting due to being a dumbass ninja, then that's his right. Honestly, there are a lot of non-botters that ninja all the time. If a guy is normally a dumbass when he's not botting, then perhaps it's more realistic if he's also a dumbass while he's botting.

 

[Natfoth]

Personally, I am extremely non agressive when it comes to world pvp and taking a node that someone else has cleared. However, I believe in freedom of speech, the right to choose, and the freedom to be a dumbass. So, if a guy wants to be a dumbass, let him use the ninja node. If he gets reported for botting and gets caught botting due to being a dumbass ninja, then that's his right. Honestly, there are a lot of non-botters that ninja all the time. If a guy is normally a dumbass when he's not botting, then perhaps it's more realistic if he's also a dumbass while he's botting.

This is why its still an option and it will continue to be an option. This feature will not be removed, just dont use it if you dont want to be a jerk.

 

[LowKey]

Personally, I'm all for more options that gives super-greedy a-holes even more rope to hang themselves with. More server for me.

And if blizz goes after the obvious bots, less chance they focus on me because they feel like they're doing their job.

Also while we're on the topic of under the radar, I've noticed that I keep getting an <Away> tag beside my name after a certain amount of time if I don'y manually push a button. It seems like an even bigger giveaway when you are running around in a BG or grinding mobs lol

Any of you guys notice this?

What are you doing in the in-between?

I've only noticed it on folks who auction bot looooaaaaaddddddsssss of stuff, such that it takes 5+ minutes of sitting still for the away tag to apply. Doesn't ever go up for me when I'm questing or whatever.

 

[devious21]

This is why its still an option and it will continue to be an option. This feature will not be removed, just dont use it if you dont want to be a jerk.

the problem is that it doesn't only negatively effect the ones using it.
there's also the case of collateral damage -> angry bot hating mobs

 

[Matafix]

So while it's not affecting you it's okay, but when it becomes a problem the option might be removed, isn't it like saying: we know there is a lot of crime down town, but people there are different from us, if we don't visit that area of town we will be safe, however if it gets to our part of town we will react.

The argumentation for keeping the option alive is rather lowkey.

 

[bambam922]

While that thread ended up getting closed and they ended up getting banned for it due to terrible moderation practices, the point of these forums is to allow discussion so I am making this thread to allow for just that, discussion of an important issue.

It seems that as your devious mind was thinking up ways to bash the mods, your eyes have completely missed what he was banned for. http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorbuddy-forum/107847-since-my-last-thread-got-closed-i-got-retard-replies-after-retard-replies.html
We have always perma banned people on our forums who admit to reporting other botters. So next time, take a better look at what is actually going on.

So assuming the forum police don't swoop in and close the thread for absolutely no reason, we can have a discussion about whether this feature should stay or go.
In my opinion, it shouldn't exist at all. Even a few idiots using it is bad for all of us.

When people decide to have civilized discussion about issue with the bot, I will not close the thread. This seems to be the case with this thread, so I'm not going to do anything with it.
When they turn into flame fests between the opposing parties, they will get closed just like all the rest. (Think back to paid/not paid discussion threads)

 

[Natfoth]

the problem is that it doesn't only negatively effect the ones using it.
there's also the case of collateral damage -> angry bot hating mobs

ya but you also have the angry mob that goes after jerks that do it that are not bots too, so while yes if they are trying to report anyone that ninjas well they will report anyone that ninjas and if you don't want to be reported for that then don't use the option. The option has been there since the start of HB and has never really been brought up until now, I think by the time that minor of an issue creeps up it wont really matter at that point because there will probably be bigger fish to fry.

 

[devious21]

It seems that as your devious mind was thinking up ways to bash the mods, your eyes have completely missed what he was banned for. http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorbuddy-forum/107847-since-my-last-thread-got-closed-i-got-retard-replies-after-retard-replies.html
We have always perma banned people on our forums who admit to reporting other botters. So next time, take a better look at what is actually going on.

When people decide to have civilized discussion about issue with the bot, I will not close the thread. This seems to be the case with this thread, so I'm not going to do anything with it.
When they turn into flame fests between the opposing parties, they will get closed just like all the rest. (Think back to paid/not paid discussion threads)

The moderator comments were not directed at you or natfoth in the slightest - I actually find your posts helpful and your decisions reasonable.
It was another moderator who shall not be named that I have had numerous disagreements in the past, so my previous issues with said person may have encouraged some mod bashing, and for that I apologize.

ya but you also have the angry mob that goes after jerks that do it that are not bots too, so while yes if they are trying to report anyone that ninjas well they will report anyone that ninjas and if you don't want to be reported for that then don't use the option. The option has been there since the start of HB and has never really been brought up until now, I think by the time that minor of an issue creeps up it wont really matter at that point because there will probably be bigger fish to fry.

True, there are many more issues that should probably take priority, but this seemed like a pretty easy one to fix.
Improving stuck handling/movement would be a nice thing to work on, my tauren druids love random fence posts/spikes/anyobjectever

 

[hi1674]

It's not the ninja option that gets the player reported imo.

It's the navigation to narrow nodes or when they are near a rock or something.

THAT is what should be looked into but navigation-issues seems to be ignored.

 

[UnicornFart]

IDK why this is even a discussion.

I turn it off, mostly because i use my bot to fish, and don't want to anger manual fishers.

But if someones paying like $37 to run this bot program, they have every right to use the option if they want to. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't do?

/thread

 

[devious21]

IDK why this is even a discussion.

I turn it off, mostly because i use my bot to fish, and don't want to anger manual fishers.

But if someones paying like $37 to run this bot program, they have every right to use the option if they want to. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't do?

/thread

It's similar to people running bots in public D3 games.
Can you do it? Yes.
Should you do it? No.

I do think navigation/movement/unstuck issues are a definite priority, though.

 

[UnicornFart]

It's similar to people running bots in public D3 games.
Can you do it? Yes.
Should you do it? No.

I do think navigation/movement/unstuck issues are a definite priority, though.

idc about nav/move/unstuck. it happens, you try mapping the EXACT terrain for the WHOLE of azeroth.

And still, you're doing something that goes against blizzard ToS, so you are the LAST person who should be telling people that they can't ninja whatever they want to.

 

[Natfoth]

It's similar to people running bots in public D3 games.
Can you do it? Yes.
Should you do it? No.

I do think navigation/movement/unstuck issues are a definite priority, though.

I totally agree, but that is not what is being discussed. The matter at hand is if the ninja node option should be removed and I think that has been answered. So any other discussions such as improvements to other systems can get their own discussion thread.

 

[UnicornFart]

Yah what he said

 

[Apoc]

It's similar to people running bots in public D3 games.
Can you do it? Yes.
Should you do it? No.

I do think navigation/movement/unstuck issues are a definite priority, though.

By that logic, we should shut down all our bots entirely. General consensus within gamers is that you shouldn't bot. So... yeah?

The option will not be going anywhere. Some people (mostly the "hardcore" gold farmers) would prefer to have a higher ban chance and more income than a safer bot. It's an option that is off by default specifically for that reason. If you want to risk your account by being a ninja, then it's on you to make that decision.

We have to take into account everyone's requests. Because a small handful of our users don't like the option, doesn't really give us a good reason to remove it. Sorry

 

[brainAbuddy]

Someone else made a post about this earlier: http://www.thebuddyforum.com/honorbuddy-forum/107666-devs-please-read.html
While that thread ended up getting closed and they ended up getting banned for it due to terrible moderation practices, the point of these forums is to allow discussion so I am making this thread to allow for just that, discussion of an important issue.

To the point:
The ninja-node option should be removed from honorbuddy.
Why? because it's bad for all of you. You might be an idiot and think "MORE RISK MORE REWARD LOLOL", but what you fail to realize is that you are increasing the risk for EVERYONE, not just yourself.
Believe it or not, there are people that actually play the game by hand, and when they are trying to grab a herb and you swoop down in bird-form and take it from them, it pisses them off.
It makes them hate botters. This is a problem when you realize that my dog could determine who is a bot and who isn't - honorbuddy is terrible at mimicking human behavior at the moment.
So while you may be okay with them reporting YOU, for being a dumbass with who is using the ninja node functionality, you're also making people angry and angry people will report all bots.
I have seen people literally just camping nodes on their mounts, waiting for bots to come by so they can report them. Is this only because someone ninjaed their node? Probably not, but did ninjaing motivate some of them? Definitely.

Just think back to Cataclysm. This was before I botted and I tried to herb manually in Uldum. I didn't give a shit if bots were competing with me, but it would make me furious when I was already looting a herb and a tauren druid would swoop in and ninja it with their reduced herbalism time.

So assuming the forum police don't swoop in and close the thread for absolutely no reason, we can have a discussion about whether this feature should stay or go.
In my opinion, it shouldn't exist at all. Even a few idiots using it is bad for all of us.

it's your own choice if you want to use it !!!!!!!