This IS a rant, and one I am passionate about.

[newb23]

The following may be slightly offensive to some, but I feel as though the statements made herein should be made, as myself as a customer, developer, student, and player have been impacted on several layers, and I feel like this needs to be said.

Honestly, why would there be Zero communication as to what is going to happen? One update broke the entire flipping bot because it was using something a main bot developer didn't like? Forget that crap, if it wasn't to be used, it should have never been there in the first place. There is a claim that the main devs don't have time for proper documentation, but they do to have time to make major, mostly unnecessary changes and then blame the community developers for never properly implementing code? I may be a fledgling programmer, but I know about a few little things called professionalism, respect, and communication, and this update proves there is ZERO knowledge, or care to provide, any of them. Next time, give us SOMETHING to work with, or don't bother. Quit stealing other people's code, and bitching about what code others are using because you don't like it. And if I see another thread closed or deleted without so much as a reply, you bet your royal buttocks I WILL find someone to report you to, so that I, and my other fellow developers who actually give a rat's under-tail about "your" bot, can stop dealing with adolescent douche-ery.

If there is anything that pisses me off, it's disrespect. Especially from a main bot dev who has thrown an adolescent temper tantrum on more occasions than teenagers I have worked with. This is NOT the actions of a professional developer, and is in no way conducive to a helpful, productive relationship between main bot developers and the, working for FREE mind you, ragtag group of developers fleshing out the features of your bot. In all honesty? Without your community developers, what would your bot DO? Feed the chocobos? Oh, only one. Coolio. Oh! It'll take care of your garden! But only fertilizing/watering. No re-replanting, or any type of notification, or even some type of "is the plant fully grown so I stop interacting with it like a moron" check. But what about the FATEbot? Holy flaming dog dooky! Something done well! Kudos! Too bad that I have to move manually EVERY time I get X number of levels, by hand. Too bad that I need to adjust the levels I need it to run as I level also. And God forbid if I want to level multiple classes. Point is, without the help and contributions of your very, very disrespected developers, many of which are very green and using this bot as a learning tool, doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, your bot would be next to worthless. Get that through your head, and we'll go a long way. You want US to stop forcing the issue with the store? That piss you off? Good. Give us the respect we deserve, the ability to do what we need to, the documentation on the commands you WANT us to use, stop chastising us for "being bad" and set us ALL up for success, developers, users, and Bossland employees alike.

You've been in our place before, all of you. You know what it is to create work, to put in the many, many hours it takes to do the things we do, to provide the functionality we provide. Please, do not discount us for trying to help you, us, and the rest of your loyal customers with a well written, fleshed out bot, with enough features to almost be another human playing this game. All that I ask for, is a heads-up. Hey, I'm looking at changing this. Hey, I want to implement this in a different way, please prepare for it. Hey, I've uploaded "open source" plugins so you can see what and how to use them, and ACTUALLY ADDED DOCUMENTATION TO THEM. We're here to stay, for the most part, but, with the continued battering of people asking for help, telling them they are bad and should intuitively KNOW how to use the object browser, or how the API works without any sort of help, isn't going to help anyone learn, and it's going to drive away potentially the next greatest thing to add to the bot.

Lastly, while the actions that have taken place have greatly offended me, I am still, still, willing and exciting to continue being a customer and developer for this bot, for as long as this game interests me. And I do thank Mastahg for the framework provided, as without it, the plugins produced would be useless. Truth. There again though, without those plugins, how much of the bot would exist?

Newb23 - Still here to work, learn, and play. Reborn Buddy - Final Fantasy - Reborn.

 

[Wheredidigo]

Who knows if Mastahg will even bother reading this post, but I wholeheartedly agree with everything here.

 

[kagamihiiragi17]

As a community developer who fits the criteria described here, this accurately portrays the situation. It feels like community devs vs. bot dev, when ideally we should be working in tandem to make the bot better. I would like to develop for RB as well, but when I'm constantly put down for my work instead of encouraged, it's hard to keep motivated.

tl;dr - /agree

 

[Exmortem]

I agree. I had a post deleted earlier without indication as to why; in the post I was trying to help the bot.

 

[lotrodude]

So, I have a question...
Are all of the plugins broke or just some of them?
Do I have to turn them all off to get the bot to work or can I still use specific ones?
If so, is there a list of the plugins that were not broken by the recent patch?

 

[kagepande]

I agree with this.

 

[lotrodude]

Newb23 - Still here to work, learn, and play. Reborn Buddy - Final Fantasy - Reborn.

I am glad that you are not like some of the guys that try to gather up all of their toys and go home when they get upset. Thanks for sticking around!

 

[Neverdyne]

I agree that there seems to be a lack of communication, and of course there is almost no documentation of any kind, which leads to a lot of people making things in incorrect ways without really knowing better.

 

[mastahg]

        public bool Equals(IBotPlugin other)
        {
            throw new NotImplementedException();
        }

This is in almost every plugin that's 'broken' right now. How do you want me to fix this? Start doing regex on every code file that needs to get compiled? No thanks.
When I was working on HB combat routines, nothing at all was documented and stuff broke every other patch and nothing was named in a manner that made any sense. I think this is the first time a change has had any serious ramifications and it really shouldn't have. People need to be responsible for the stuff they produce. If your using functions that are not documented or are possibly ambiguous in their function then you need to either not use it or post in the dev section asking for clarification.

I agree. I had a post deleted earlier without indication as to why; in the post I was trying to help the bot.

I'm not the only one moderating.
The rules are pretty clear, if you posted a thread without a log then its going to get deleted most likely. People post off topic things, its going to get deleted.

 

[newb23]

I am glad that you are not like some of the guys that try to gather up all of their toys and go home when they get upset. Thanks for sticking around!

I love this bot, I do! And I love putting time and effort into it. Never even added a donate button, because I want this community to thrive! I try to include all of my project files so that anyone can use my work to create something better. Like someone is doing with RetBot right now! I have no intentions on leaving, and every intention of continuing to provide a service to this bot.

It is my pleasure.

 

[newb23]

        public bool Equals(IBotPlugin other)
        {
            throw new NotImplementedException();
        }

This is in almost every plugin that's 'broken' right now. How do you want me to fix this? Start doing regex on every code file that needs to get compiled? No thanks.
When I was working on HB combat routines, nothing at all was documented and stuff broke every other patch and nothing was named in a manner that made any sense. I think this is the first time a change has had any serious ramifications and it really shouldn't have. People need to be responsible for the stuff they produce. If your using functions that are not documented or are possibly ambiguous in their function then you need to either not use it or post in the dev section asking for clarification.




I'm not the only one moderating.
The rules are pretty clear, if you posted a thread without a log then its going to get deleted most likely. People post off topic things, its going to get deleted.

And I agree with you, wholeheartedly. I really do. It's when the developers DO post up there, asking for help, and are simply pointed towards the object browser, or to API documentation that doesn't exist that we run into trouble. I am NOT saying that my posts have all been ignored up there, because I received a LOT of help to get my first plugin off the ground, and will likely need a lot of help in the future.

What I am saying, is that there is a lot more to this than just changing some code to be better implemented. Yes, we may be bad, but how would we know that? And if we are bad, how would we know what to change and WHEN, when an update gets pushed that destroys what our plugins inherently do?

I'm looking for documentation. I'm looking for help and support more so than chastisement and dismissal. I am looking for open communication, and a general amount of respect and warning when things are being implemented improperly, and a heads up that it needs to be changed.

You know the ONLY thing that I have seen, at least that I remember off the top of my head, that you've explicitly stated NOT to use was Treeroot.Sop()? And I never have used it since! You explained why not to use it, and Saga explained how to hook into the tree instead.

Again, there is more than just code being changed that I am passionate about here. And I very, very much want to be able to continue to learn and grow, and help this fantastic bot become the ultimate superpower of bots. We just need to come to some type of understanding.

 

[Exmortem]

The rules are pretty clear, if you posted a thread without a log then its going to get deleted most likely. People post off topic things, its going to get deleted.

Fair enough. There was no need for a log in the post. In the end, it only affects the users.

 

[bambam922]

First, let me say thank you to everyone in this thread so far that has kept things civilized.

Next, let's discuss documentation.
I am not active with RebornBuddy nor do I intend to be in the future, but maybe this may help.
It is true that there is not an official documentation page for RebornBuddy (just like for HonorBuddy (docs.honorbuddy.com)
However, looking through the developer sub-forum, I did notice someone who linked documentation.
I'm not sure how current it is, but maybe this will be something useful.
Rebornbuddy v1.0.233 Documentation - Redirect

I agree that there needs to be communication for continued success, but it is also important to keep professional.
If you can you give us some suggestions on what should be done, and we'll go from there.

Note: I was asked to come in to keep things civil. If you have nothing constructive but decide to post anyway, expect mutes/bans.

 

[gathel]

The quickest thing would be to provide things that show up in intellisense, or auto-generated docs (you can use Doxygen for example) and provide summary tags to methods and classes.

As stated earlier, using [Obsolete] should be sufficient to provide details on something that is planned to be phased out.


Just about anything that provides some communication about upcoming changes would go a long way. A section, or sticky thread, dedicated to information such as "Please phase out IBotPlugin; it will be removed in a <week/month/etc>. Use BotPlugin instead."


Thanks for listening.

 

[newb23]

First, let me say thank you to everyone in this thread so far that has kept things civilized.

Next, let's discuss documentation.
I am not active with RebornBuddy nor do I intend to be in the future, but maybe this may help.
It is true that there is not an official documentation page for RebornBuddy (just like for HonorBuddy (docs.honorbuddy.com)
However, looking through the developer sub-forum, I did notice someone who linked documentation.
I'm not sure how current it is, but maybe this will be something useful.
Rebornbuddy v1.0.233 Documentation - Redirect

I agree that there needs to be communication for continued success, but it is also important to keep professional.
If you can you give us some suggestions on what should be done, and we'll go from there.

Note: I was asked to come in to keep things civil. If you have nothing constructive but decide to post anyway, expect mutes/bans.

I agree with you that this discussion needs to be civil, and I will admit that the first rough draft of this was much more... pointed... but why post something that goes against what the post itself is about, right?

I have looked at the documentation link you provided on several occasions, and honestly have for the information provided therein very, very dissatisfying, not to mention, it's for version .233, of which we are now many versions past. It has honestly been easier to just load up CS and look through the object browser and look at "all of the API functionality whose functions should be able to be derived from their very name, no commentary needed." For a seasoned developer, I'm sure that is relatively intuitive. And for some who know how to use reflection(? just learned this word, researching it as we speak), even easier. Alas, for a fledgling like myself, just sprouting my wings like many others here, we need just a liiiitle bit more.

Some solutions that I can see, are get some relief for our overworked main dev here with modding our forum/customer service, get a complete write-up of the API and it's functionalists, or, get a whole other dev to work on this full time. As repeatedly stated, one of the largest issues we have, is time, especially with the new expansion coming out, and many, many new developers entering this scene.

Thank you for taking the time to review this post, and for being here to rodeo us all up. I know some of us can get kind of rowdy from time to time.

Doh edit: Also, a previous to implementation heads-up. XXX is going to change for YYY reason, update your stuff, you have ZZZ time,

 

[Miter]

I don't think we're asking for the most robust documentation, and the RB documentation link that you refer to was put up by a developer and is antiquated at best. Just a simple implementation of xmldocs in C# to add a little extra context to some of the confusing plugins would be a big help, but I feel that the bigger issue is the lack of appreciation for the work that the community devs do. Unlike HB, RB doesn't have a store so appreciation is the only currency to work with and judging by the tone and how things are phrased it feels that there isn't support or even tolerance for people trying to learn or new to programming in general. The IBotPlugin vs BotPlugin incident today just illustrates the divide between the the staff and the community developers.

 

[consecrated]

Sorry to but in here, but I notice there is a lot of discussion here about some update and profiles breaking... would this not be a good time to purchase RebornBuddy? I've used honorbuddy for a long time but have just started playing FFXIV seriously again.

 

[newb23]

Sorry to but in here, but I notice there is a lot of discussion here about some update and profiles breaking... would this not be a good time to purchase RebornBuddy? I've used honorbuddy for a long time but have just started playing FFXIV seriously again.

You aren't butting in, and yes. Most of the widely used plugins have been updated to accommodate the most recent update, and the bot is performing well. There are still some growing pains here and there, but for the most part, your experience should be ar pretty positive one.

Any questions or concerns for any plugins, botbases, or profiles can be directed at their respective developers in their respective forums, and all of those developers are pretty good at getting things fixed and working for you in a timely fashion.

Welcome to the Fray! Also, take a look at this thread: it should help you out for getting started! https://www.thebuddyforum.com/rebornbuddy-forum/206357-noobie-tutorial.html

 

[consecrated]

You aren't butting in, and yes. Most of the widely used plugins have been updated to accommodate the most recent update, and the bot is performing well. There are still some growing pains here and there, but for the most part, your experience should be ar pretty positive one.

Any questions or concerns for any plugins, botbases, or profiles can be directed at their respective developers in their respective forums, and all of those developers are pretty good at getting things fixed and working for you in a timely fashion.

Welcome to the Fray! Also, take a look at this thread: it should help you out for getting started! https://www.thebuddyforum.com/rebornbuddy-forum/206357-noobie-tutorial.html

Thanks a lot! I hope the rest of the community is as nice.
Feel free to add me on skype at "consecrated." (it includes the period) only if you feel like it, I think i'm on Tonberry?

 

[natrurebiy]

Im going to be completely upfront here and say I dont really even understand the base reason for this rant.

I am just another end user here running 2 instances of rebornbuddy, although i expect to buy more soon.
I am a former user of both honorbuddy & demnonbuddy.

Im looking to understand the best way I can help this project since I can not contribute to the development/coding side due to the lack of knowledge.
Happy to contribute monetarily even to things Ive never used (lisbeth is the one that comes to mind, when i switched to that botbase all it did was crash rb for me. but I donated 50usd because it seems to be a highly popular/useful community project. even though i dont really craft.
Im most interested in a combat routine that could AE tank dungeons with me driving only the movement, I realize single target tanking basically works already with ultima ( which is the other project Ive donated to so far) in fact I use ultima a good bit for combat assist when I play bard and it does well, again if it is single target dps only combat assist.


Learning development is something im working on but currently all I dabble with is perl scripting and some very basic Ios app coding with intentions of picking up more C and C# as time goes on as I work in IT anyway only mainly I do storage & virtualization instead of development.

When I finally get into development I will avoid usage of general terms like "latest" as when I see things like, are you running the latest version? It annoys me to the bitter end.

It never fails that everytime theres a patch someone has =made a thread asking about hoe long after patch does this bot get updated? or "this version of FF is not supported" Ive seen it enough times that it even annoys me.
I cant say that more than a day has gone by without a catchup update.

So Im looking for ideas whats the best way for me to help here, I dont post much as Im not exactly a social person.


the only thing I have done for this game is in profiles like the electrum gathering one, Ive copied it and changed this part

<Items>
<ItemName>Electrum Ore</ItemName>
</Items>
to This:
<Items>
<ItemName>Elarth Shard</ItemName>
</Items>

or add the timeworm map that exists in this place as well. So that I can load up a 2nd profile when the inventory gets full and keep on gathering. Im willing to bet theres a way to make it gather electrum til inventory is full and then get earth shard another way but I couldnt figure it out but making a 2nd profile to load by hand worked for me so I called it good enough. I do have things like the pluralsight/udemy/etc courses on c# that Im using to learn with but many times my day job gets in the way. Learning the development side of things is going to be very slow moving.
So currently is the right thing for me to do is continue contributing to the plugins & such via the paypal donate thing, I realize "right" is a very debatable word in this situation. I am talking about in the sense of contributing to this project and helping it be successful in the future.

thank you for listening.


edit: many typos since I have to type with my right hand only.