Seeking feedback: Crafting Botbase

[mastahg]

A long requested feature has been the inclusion of a crafting botbase. As I do not do any major crafting, I am not quite sure of what users would like to see in such a botbase. So i am currently seeking feedback on the following:

1)What should the primary function of the botbase be?
2)Which crafting proffesions are the most used?

 

[garretjax]

I sent you a PM with a link to a free crafting bot that I have been using. Maybe you can get some ideas from it or possibly even incorporate it with the devs permission. From his blog post I think he has abandoned the project.

 

[kagamihiiragi17]

Crafting at level 50 has a lot of factors, and relies heavily on cross-class skills. There is a base 'rotation' that's used, but often times other skills are added into the rotation depending on what happens with the item (quality change, etc). Ideally I think the bot would have an area where you can specify a rotation to use (on an item-by-item basis or a base-durability basis would be good), but also it would be great if there was a 'conditions' area where you could specify to use skills (or more than one skill) under certain scenarios (i.e. use Tricks of the Trade when CP is below 100 and item condition is 'Good', or use Advanced Touch if CP is over 48 and item condition is excellent and HQ% is less than 80) to help in 100% HQing the harder crafts.

That explanation was kind of all over the place, but hopefully it made a bit of sense. I can flesh it out more if necessary, or someone who knows more about crafting can offer up a better explanation.

 

[Azoth]

What would be really nice to start is simply a bot that will run through a specific, preset rotation (profile) with no conditionals. That's basically what macros do right now, and they're fine for the vast majority of crafts you'd want to bot anyways. It'd start the craft, run through its set actions which presumably finish the craft, then start another one (setting hq ingredients back to nq if you ran out of hq). You might have to load different profiles for different items, but that's probably be easier than an all-in-one sort of thing.
Eventually it'd be useful to be able to write profiles that will conditionally use abilities similar to how combat routines are right now, as stated in the post above. When to use what would be a pretty complex decision at end-game crafting even if you know exactly what abilities are available and what crafting stats are, but if the framework were there someone could take stab at it. Would need to have some way to know what crafting skills are available, as well as the ilvl of the item being made and the current craftsmanship rating, so it knows how many synthesis steps are needed, etc.

As for crafting professions that are most used, for actual crafts it might be Culinarian first, Blacksmith/Carpenter last, and the others somewhere in between.
In terms of cross class skills my opinion would be Culinarian/Carpenter > Weaver/Alchemist > Goldsmith/Leatherworker, with Blacksmithing being essential if you're making 1/2/3* recipes and useless otherwise, and Armorer essential for 3* only.

 

[Prodiniz]

Wow, this would be a huge feature and asset to Reborn Buddy, very nice .

Well, to start and imo, the first thing you might want to focus on is leveling for each class. Most people that have a 50 crafter don't need a bot to craft for them as they generally already know the rotations or have macros that do for them what they need and I don't know too many 50 crafters that just sit and spit out hundreds of items (I certainly don't). The only people that need to do that are crafters who are not lvl 50 and need to level their current classes by making the same things over and over.

EDIT: I don't think this will work, in the process of thinking it through I realized it would take hundreds of preset routines, but I left the example below and changed it to red as an example of what not to suggest or maybe it would give you some inspiration of how to better address the issue.

So, with that said, I suggest focusing on how to best level each class. What might work best would be several preset routines where the routine is picked based of different variables, for example:

Player is level 31 Carpenter
Craftsmanship: 150, Control: 132, Crafting Points (CP): 195
Class Specific Skills: Rumination(lvl15), Brand of Wind(lvl37), Byregot's Blessing(lvl50)

No Cross-class Skills:
Routine A: Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, Basic Touch, Basic Touch, Basic Touch, Master's Mend, Rumination, Steady Hand, Basic Touch, Basic Synthesis, Basic Synthesis

Has Careful Synthesis:
Routine B: Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, Basic Touch, Basic Touch, Basic Touch, Master's Mend, Rumination, Steady Hand, Basic Touch, Careful Synthesis, Careful Synthesis

Has Careful Synthesis; Hasty Touch
Routine C: Inner Quiet, Steady Hand, Hasty Touch, Hasty Touch, Hasty Touch, Master's Mend, Basic Synthesis, Rumination, Steady Hand, Great Strides, Basis Synthesis, Hasty Touch, Basic Synthesis

Crafting (Oak Lumber) 40 durabiltiy, 55 difficulty, and 1697 quality
Is item stackable: True (99 stack value)
Is there space in inventory: True (75 spaces left)
Has Cross-class skills: True
Cross-class skills: Careful Synthesis (Weaver lvl 15); Hasty Touch (Culinarian lvl 15)
-> Use Routine C

 

[Azoth]

Wow, this would be a huge feature and asset to Reborn Buddy, very nice .

Well, to start and imo, the first thing you might want to focus on is leveling for each class. Most people that have a 50 crafter don't need a bot to craft for them as they generally already know the rotations or have macros that do for them what they need and I don't know too many 50 crafters that just sit and spit out hundreds of items (I certainly don't). The only people that need to do that are crafters who are not lvl 50 and need to level their current classes by making the same things over and over.

I disagree with this. While its true that those people who are leveling crafting might get the most usage out of the bot (which is arguable because the majority of people I've seen level crafting barely do anything themselves, and just buy hq levequest items to turn in), there's many cases where level 50's will want to sit there and spit out hundreds of items. Food, or 1* mats to sell, or the 2* mats for your artisan weapon. And knowing the rotation or being able to use macros isn't a substitute for the primary purpose of a bot, which is automation.

 

[txp1001]

I have a lot of crafting experience since I am a 3 star crafter for every class. What I would look for in a crafting bot would be the ability to use skills according to my preference (will elaborate later). I am currently using FFXIV assistant. It is a pixel base clicking bot that pretty much spams 1 2 3 4 in the order that i specify. It works well except for you can't do anything on your computer while it is working. The ultimate drawback to FFXIV assistant is you can't do anything on your computer while it is active. The second thing is the fact that it clicks slot on your hot bar. The problem becomes where I have multiple crafters and the skills are not always in the same slot across all crafters so you have to manually make a rotation for each crafting class depending on where the skills are located on your hot bar. Yes you can make the skills all in the same position for which I have done, but it's a huge hassle since there are minute differences in all crafting classes.

In terms of crafting rotation a crafting bot that allows me to tell it to do the skill rotation that I want to do such as "Comfort Zone" first then "Inner Quiet" second and so on would be nice. There should be no set rotations since like Azoth have said, it really depends on your melds, cross class skills etc...

Another feature that would be nice is to have it say make 99 hippogryph leather according to my rotation and then automatically go on to the next designated item after finishing the 99 hippogrph using a different rotation if needed. The ability to do this would be nice, but it's definitely not a must.

 

[mastahg]

So I think the bot will need to be a profile based bot as the rotations are too complex and numerous to do easily within a GUI.

I think something like this would allow profile makers to craft complex rotations while still making it easy.

<Craft>
<RequiredSkills>
<Skill>Hasty Touch</skill>
</RequiredSkills>
<CraftOptions>
<ItemName>Maple Syrup</ItemName>
<NumberToCraft>1</NumberToCraft>
</CraftOptions>
<Materials>
<Slot Id="0" numHq="1" />
</Materials>

<Rotations>
<Rotation Name="Primary" minCP="300" minControl="125" minCraftsminship="9001">
<Step Id="0" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="1" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="2" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="4" OnFailure="3" />
<Step Id="3" Name="Masters Mend"  OnSuccess="5"/>
<Step Id="5" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="6" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="7" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="4" Name="Basic Synthesis"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
</Rotation>

</Rotations>
</Craft>

What do you HQ crafters think about something like that? I'm concenered that the step system might be too complex and get confusing for larger rotations but the only alternatives i can think of are doing it raw without checking if the aciton failed or not, or to use something like

 <Status code="Quality < 40" >
<Execute name="Basic Touch"/>
</Status>

 <Status code="Quality < 50" >
<Execute name="Basic Touch"/>
</Status>

 <Status code="Quality < 60" >
<Execute name="Basic Touch"/>
</Status>

<Execute name="Basic Synthesis"/>

 

[Azoth]

Looks interesting so far. Seems to be conditionals for whether the skill succeeded or failed; would there be other ones? Such as

<Craft>
<RequiredSkills>
<Skill>Hasty Touch</skill>
</RequiredSkills>
<CraftOptions>
<ItemName>Maple Syrup</ItemName>
<NumberToCraft>1</NumberToCraft>
</CraftOptions>
<Materials>
<Slot Id="0" numHq="1" />
</Materials>

<Rotations>
<Rotation Name="Primary" minCP="300" minControl="125" minCraftsminship="9001">
<Step Id="0" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="1" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="2" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="4" OnFailure="3" />
<Step Id="3" Name="Masters Mend"  OnSuccess="5"/>
<Step Id="5" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" OnExcellent="8"/>
<Step Id="6" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="7" Name="Basic Touch"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="8" Name="Byregot's Blessing"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
<Step Id="4" Name="Basic Synthesis"  OnSuccess="Next" OnFailure="Next" />
</Rotation>

</Rotations>
</Craft>

Two that would be necessary for a full crafting bot would be the condition of the item and the remaining cp, ie using Tricks when condition is good, then depending on how many Tricks used your skills at the end of the craft might change (using Manipulation instead of Waste Not if you have extra CP, or skipping over Innovation if you have less than expected). Would the profiles be bound to a specific item, or would you load the profile and it would try to craft whatever item you're currently on?

@txp1001
Why not set up macros for the abilities you want, bind them to hotkeys, then setup an AHK script to hit those buttons then start a new craft?

 

[Elsa]

As far as the Primary function of the bot, start simple, and have the bot craft 1 thing over and over again. To change the item being crafted have a brief explanation of how to right click -> edit, and change the item name being crafted. This would be an awesome start, nothing close to 1-50 AFK-able, but you could get 500 of one item, and have it crafted repeatedly. No repetitive clicking required.

 

[Marth]

Ultimately I think the bot needs to have detection for the state of the craft for it to be usable at higher end crafting, so it can detect at what step should it use Byregot's, etc. However, a normal rotation is fine if it's just going to be about levelling a craft and mass production.

You can do the large majority of high level crafts on a rotation nowadays. I use a set of two macros for my two-star recipes and they are 100% HQ as long as your gear is good enough (which it would need to be anyway).

All I would need from the bot is for it to click on my macros for me : )

A rotation system like the one you originally proposed would work fine too, mastahg

 

[Azoth]

I agree that a crafting bot would be ideal for leveling professions, but once at 50 I do not see the use in it, since ALOT of crafters use no RNG macros.. the only thing that i see could be useful was if it detected good quality and used tricks of the trade to set up a rotation around, since alot of the 3 star 40 dura crafts are hard to HQ (even max melded) without using tricks of the trade.

First of all, macros do not allow you to fully automate crafting. You still have to either hit the button yourself, or run a separate program to hit the button for you. Either way, you can't use your computer for other things while doing it.

No RNG macros are fine for sub-50 items, but once you get into star items you start needing to use HQ ingredients and/or overmelding materia onto your gear in excess of the minimum stat requirements of the item. The difference between a manual craft and a macro craft becomes massive. I'm not saying I'll ever use any bot to craft a 3*, but it would be nice to be able to automate crafts of Darksteel nuggets and such while spiritbonding gear with no materia attached without 40% of them being NQ.

At the higher end, there are many conditions besides the single one you pointed out. On excellent, use Byregot's if IQ stacks exceed X, otherwise use Basic Touch if SH2 is running. Use Tricks when Waste Not is running, but only if durability is a multiple of 10. Use Basic Touch instead of a final Hasty Touch if there will be at least 88 CP remaining (110 if SH2 has 3 or fewer turns), counting remaining turns of CZ, which becomes 106/128/4 if Innovation is available. If CP is below X, use Waste Not; if CP is below Y, use Hasty Touch until SH2 fades and then Manipulation; otherwise use Hasty Touch until durability is (maxDurability - 60) and use MM2, unless at that point SH2 has one/two turns remaining in which case use one more Hasty Touch beforehand; when calculating CP for all the above factor in CP gains from remaining turns of Comfort Zone as well as a second Comfort Zone in the last case. And so on and so forth.

Also, there's no 3* 40 dura crafts.

 

[chippon]

What I would love to see is a way to select items, such as silver battle fork (crp) then be able to select a group of actions that I have set. Then I could set a quantity I want to make say 10. Then I can select something else like... Heliodor bracelet (gsm) select set of actions and how many to make then hit go and the bot would make 10 forks change class make 15 bracelets and so on and so forth. I mean it would be great if it could then deposit items into a company chest or whatnot but that's asking alot... if the bot could handle a list of items like a order that would be awesome

 

[onyxial]

IMHO, a good crafting bot needs priority based rotations just like combat; a set of default ones that are basically synthesis and mending and support for community created ones that could support cross class skills. Additionally, it needs to recognize items in inventory to start and recognize and deposit/withdraw items from retainers and purchase from the market eventually. It should support profiles that can define which items to synthesize in an orderbot like fashion. It also should support quick synth for grinding.

If it could combine the crafting with an orderbot questing system for leves, that would be a huge bonus.

My $0.02.

 

[TheDudinou]

IMHO, a good crafting bot needs priority based rotations just like combat; a set of default ones that are basically synthesis and mending and support for community created ones that could support cross class skills. Additionally, it needs to recognize items in inventory to start and recognize and deposit/withdraw items from retainers and purchase from the market eventually. It should support profiles that can define which items to synthesize in an orderbot like fashion. It also should support quick synth for grinding.

If it could combine the crafting with an orderbot questing system for leves, that would be a huge bonus.

My $0.02.

If you have a bot able to craft with profile support, quick synth becomes absolutly obsolete. If you want to grind for XP, it will be better to have a profile able to not have the 10% failure (exept if you get really unlucky during your actions) AND that raises the quality of the item you're crafting. The increase in quality will almost double your XP gained through crafting even if you don't proc the item HQ.

NPC interaction and everything would be great, sure, but seriously, just creating HQ 40 dura items without having to click the macro would be excellent.

 

[Endus]

*bump* To make this thread visible to those interested in the subject (https://www.thebuddyforum.com/rebornbuddy-forum/175432-crafting.html).

So basically if/when the Crafting botbase is made, it'll perform similar to Order Bot (profiles would need to be created for each item type and the skills to use for each)?

Honestly that seems like it makes sense. From what I know of crafting, even though you can make macros to create a lot of stuff, it would be nice to have the ability to customize the bot to each item (as long as there are people out there willing to make profiles for all those items).

I do agree with previous posts though (based on my limited crafting knowledge) that a priority system would be needed (since failure is a possibility, the ability to set "failsafes" or "recovery plans" in the profiles would help ensure the best possible outcome for each crafting profile).

 

[Zyltis]

If I may.

Depending on the needs of people, different things could be suggested. I personally believe that starting with the base of things to be the best way to start.

Since we have nothing of a crafting option right now, I think we could start with the option to select what we wanna make with the best available chain of skills. For example, I'm a Carpenter and I wanna make Maple Lumbers. I would select Recipe Level 1, item 1 and the number of times I wanna make it. An option to use HQ items could be implemented as well.

The hard part would be to have the bot detect your stats and skills to use accordingly.

The rest of the options regarding leves and such could be implemented later on as an addon/plugins to use? I'm honestly not very familiar with how the commands are created and how they work since I've been using this for about a week now (and loving it btw) and having a crafting option would make this my favorite.

 

[mastahg]

If I may.

Depending on the needs of people, different things could be suggested. I personally believe that starting with the base of things to be the best way to start.

Since we have nothing of a crafting option right now, I think we could start with the option to select what we wanna make with the best available chain of skills. For example, I'm a Carpenter and I wanna make Maple Lumbers. I would select Recipe Level 1, item 1 and the number of times I wanna make it. An option to use HQ items could be implemented as well.

No point making something that wont cover all the use cases and can't be expanded.

The hard part would be to have the bot detect your stats and skills to use accordingly.

This.

I've never done any crafting, so it doesn't make sense for me to try and make something. I need someone who knows about crafting and to create a well thought design pattern that I can implement. Until that happens nothing is going to get done on this front.

 

[TheDudinou]

No point making something that wont cover all the use cases and can't be expanded.




This.

I've never done any crafting, so it doesn't make sense for me to try and make something. I need someone who knows about crafting and to create a well thought design pattern that I can implement. Until that happens nothing is going to get done on this front.

Honestly, something that would select what item you want to chaincraft, what materials you want to use HQ or not, and then just click on a premade macro would be more than enough to beggin. Or the ability to create profiles with the chain of skills to be used in case the item is a 40 or 80 durability.

The whole priority system would be longer to create because the uses of crossclass skills don't just add a skill to the rotation, but changes the whole rotation in some cases.

 

[TheDudinou]

I have used Lasta's crafting bot extensively (luminaries on all classes and far more), here is my opinion on the good and the bad:


Edit: In response to some of the previous comments, most crafters don't use a priority system. We have a set list of abilities and just go down the list, item condition be damned. If your Byregot's lands on a Poor condition, so be it, because you don't have enough CP to deviate at all.

This.

You just optimise your stuff, and choose a rotation that will consume all your CP. When you get to 50 and finally have all your stuff equiped and melded, most people just create two macros, one for 40 dura and the other for 80, and never touch their skills again. Even then you have to pray to HQ two stars items.

You just calculate how much CP you have, then how much synthesys actions you need to finish the item, and that leaves you with how much durability and CP you can spend on increasing the quality, and putting a last buff to be sure your synthesis at the end won't fail. Reddit has all the information needed there.