Latest eta from HatchingEgg in Discord

[Yand]

HatchingEgg, (one of pokefarmers developpers) just posted this on the discord channel:

[15:27]HatchingEgg:
"Seems like everyone has given up on 0.47. These are very stressful days but I want to give you a quick status update. Seems like we are the only guys who still work on 0.47. After a very long week we finally made some progress but that's far away from something we can deliver. But that can change every minute. That's like always. Once we make a breakthrough - it goes fast.
However. Please be patient, we are giving our best to update asap but the recent update is really really hard to analyze."

 

[JoelGilmor]

So, this is far from being over.

The Update is REALLY REALLY hard to analyze. I assume in a difficulty from 0-10 this update is Level 9. Don't know.

Well, our guy is asking us to be patient, so let's be patient. I am patient. I have a very low expectation this will get resolved. That doesn't mean I don't have faith that hatching egg will deliver. I know he will, I just don't know when.

 

[CAcove]

The good news is a breakthrough was made you are welcome to view my post for all of the up to date info too called *unofficial update and the cold hard truth*

 

[Square]

Why stop there? Continue with the update and bring out the good news. Some don't have access to discord chat




As of right now, there are twelve developers in the team. The last one has more than that, including Waryas of FPM. The first one have dozens and probably hundreds of support. Right now, a lot of these developers are just on the sideline and seemingly lost interest.



Its just hard to believe that Ardiri and Waryas are just there watching, when they could have done more. These two are as good developers as hatching Egg and Apoc from what I heard.

 

[CAcove]

Why stop there? Continue with the update and bring out the good news. Some don't have access to discord chat

View attachment 216619View attachment 216620View attachment 216621View attachment 216622


As of right now, there are twelve developers in the team. The last one has more than that, including Waryas of FPM. The first one have dozens and probably hundreds of support. Right now, a lot of these developers are just on the sideline and seemingly lost interest.

View attachment 216623

Its just hard to believe that Ardiri and Waryas are just there watching, when they could have done more. These two are as good developers as hatching Egg and Apoc from what I heard.

Square I was not aware of the additional details, I will add that to my current unofficial updates posting! Cheers!!!

 

[Square]

Square I was not aware of the additional details, I will add that to my current unofficial updates posting! Cheers!!!

@CAcove, I appreciate your effort in bringing update to the forum. In the absence of an official update thread, one really has to jump in. I did during the last update, before this one.

https://www.thebuddyforum.com/pokefarmer-forum/275240-development-community-update.html

The problem is glaring though, everything that we say is not official. I am a big fan of the bot, and the developer, but not of their system. Though I don't agree with all of Dmpk's rant, he is not entirely alone in his lament regarding the staff's lack of effort in communicating the problem, issues and updates to the clients. Let Hatchingegg and Apoc concentrate on the technical matters, Tony is pretty good at answering email concerns, but someone need to step up in managing this forum because this is the portal to their house. That lack of effort from them is the reason why your effort is highly appreciated. If someone from them is stepping up, then there will be no need for the likes of us to start an update thread. As of right now, the official update thread says there is no problem with.t the bot, and that they are merely updating to version 145.

I can tell you though that customers will not be satisfied by your update. You and I have no official standing in this forum. It needs someone from the staff to publish an official update. There are two things that really frustrates me, one is people continuously asking for update and ETA. The other is the moderator's reply that it is being updated, which is a lie.

The harder cold fact is that Pokefarmer is not being updated. It has been left untouched since day one. The problem is not with Pokefarmer, it's with API. Pokefarmer will not be updated until the developer community hacked the API, and the developer community is not Pokefarmer, rather, Pokefarmer is a contributor to the community. Unless it is hacked, there will be no ETA for this bot. Only when it solved can the update to PF begin, and that's the only time that Hatching Egg can give an ETA. But no one from the staff cares to explain this to the clients, that's why the question keeps popping up over and over and over again. There is a need for a sticky thread that will not be buried under senseless posts with senseless arguing, and needs to be published by someone in the company, and not by a paying member like us to make it official.

 

[CAcove]

@CAcove, I appreciate your effort in bringing update to the forum. In the absence of an official update thread, one really has to jump in. I did during the last update, before this one.

https://www.thebuddyforum.com/pokefarmer-forum/275240-development-community-update.html

The problem is glaring though, everything that we say is not official. I am a big fan of the bot, and the developer, but not of their system. Though I don't agree with all of Dmpk's rant, he is not entirely alone in his lament regarding the staff's lack of effort in communicating the problem, issues and updates to the clients. Let Hatchingegg and Apoc concentrate on the technical matters, Tony is pretty good at answering email concerns, but someone need to step up in managing this forum because this is the portal to their house. That lack of effort from them is the reason why your effort is highly appreciated. If someone from them is stepping up, then there will be no need for the likes of us to start an update thread. As of right now, the official update thread says there is no problem with.t the bot, and that they are merely updating to version 145.

I can tell you though that customers will not be satisfied by your update. You and I have no official standing in this forum. It needs someone from the staff to publish an official update. There are two things that really frustrates me, one is people continuously asking for update and ETA. The other is the moderator's reply that it is being updated, which is a lie.

The harder cold fact is that Pokefarmer is not being updated. It has been left untouched since day one. The problem is not with Pokefarmer, it's with API. Pokefarmer will not be updated until the developer community hacked the API, and the developer community is not Pokefarmer, rather, Pokefarmer is a contributor to the community. Unless it is hacked, there will be no ETA for this bot. Only when it solved can the update to PF begin, and that's the only time that Hatching Egg can give an ETA. But no one from the staff cares to explain this to the clients, that's why the question keeps popping up over and over and over again. There is a need for a sticky thread that will not be buried under senseless posts with senseless arguing, and needs to be published by someone in the company, and not by a paying member like us to make it official.

While I understand your position and frustration, and I know that my posting carries no merit as I am not a mod there is something I would like to point out, I do it in the off chance those who want answers find it and educate themselves.

As for the rest of your comments we may have to agree to disagree as I know for a fact the devs have been working on the project since the 1st 2 days the bot went down. I know they have made progress (and not just from the discord chat channel alone) and I know they have figured out certain things they need to do. I get the frustrations again but I felt obligated to point out that Hatching has been working on this project alot... He caught alot of flak and people said the same thing with the Unknown6 but he proved that he was indeed hauling his butt on that too. "Sometimes we cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel until we have fallen to the lowest point of the dark hole." Have faith my friend.

 

[Square]

There will be no argument between you and me, I can tell when I am talking to a reasonable person, and I am as reasonable as well, no matter if we are viewing things from two different angles.

I have no doubt that Hatchingegg and Apoc had been working on it since day one. And I have much respect for their talent, it’s their bread and butter, and they are good at what they do, as much as I believe that all of us are good with what we do.

In my assumption, when there is a minor update, each competing bot and map owners do their own update. And it normally only takes days, sometimes less. But when a major update such as this, these bot and map owners go back to their community of developers and tackle the problem together. They may not support each other’s businesses, Waryas for example is the lead developer of FastPokeMap, and Hatchingegg is the lead developer for PF, yet they worked together to hack the API. That’s is Phase one. While in progress, no update is being done to their own products since it is pointless to update something when they know that it is not going to work without the hacked API. That is why none of the bot and map owners can give an ETA to their clients is because they don’t know when they can hack it, as each one of them are given piece of the pie to work on. No ETA on API means zero ETA on their own respective products.

Once successful, they can finally move on to phase two, which is incorporating the hacked API to their own products and updating their own product starts, maps, trackers, bots, etc… That is the only time that they can give an ETA to their customer. This is what most common clients think we are at right now.

Phase three is beta testing

Phase four is delivery to customer.

They are not even halfway in phase one yet, that’s why I said they haven’t touched Pokefarmer yet. It’s pointless to update Pokefarmer without a hacked API, it will not work

These, in my own opinion, and my own alone, needs to be conveyed to the clients. The reason why everyone is asking for an ETA is because they think that they are already working on updating the Pokefarmer itself, which should only take days. And it should once the API has been hacked. Some of them don’t know the magnitude of the problem that these developers are facing. Telling them to be patient without explanation is like telling the kids to shut up without even explaining to them why. That is not enough, they are not kids, they are business partners and customers, they will ask. But once they are told about the process, then they might understand. It’s not really pokefarmer’s fault that the bot is down. It’s like PF is a car manufacturer, and the bot is a car. The car was perfectly working well with unleaded fuel until Niantic stopped the production of unleaded fuel and switched to gasohol. Nobody should blame PF why the car that they purchased earlier cannot work on gasohol, but right now they are trying to find a way to run the bot in gasohol, and its taking time, but people will understand once explained, and they will blame Niantic instead for stopping the production of gasoline..

I am also passionate when it comes to assisting other people as well, but I think this is something that they can build around their business infrastructure. Everyone has the mentality that this is just a small business. I think I was the one who commented that the amount I paid for a month’s bot cannot even buy me a cup of latte at Starbucks, or a bottle of beer. I mentioned that because it is true. But at the height of this game’s popularity, PF boasted 600,000 members, If I can quote one of the staffs here. At $5.00 each, that is $3,000,000.00 revenue per month. Even if the number of clients dramatically decreased to only 6,000 customers at this current point, that is still $30,000,00 revenue per month. I don’t know about the overhead, but in my book, a business like this is not small, there is money in this business, so I think the clients deserve something better, not merely relying on paying customers like us to attend our own, providing our own unofficial update.

The problem with unofficial thread is that it is easy to get ambushed and change the topic completely, like this one. It also opens door for argument since it is unofficial, and based on unofficial source, posted by unofficial member. It is also easy to get buried under other posts. I think there should be a post that is official, controlled by moderators so there can never be argument, posted by official person so it will be like a gospel, sticky so it will always be up there no matter how many posts are made.

Unfortunately, this is the best that I can refer to the clients asking for update:

https://www.thebuddyforum.com/pokefarmer-forum/272194-pokefarmer-update-thread.html

 

[unkn0wnfantasy]

@Square I really thank you for your time. Writing all the words that most of the community have in their heads! It's bit frustrating because any person in any situation needs feedback and if you dont have it , it just becomes a bomb when patience its gone.

 

[JoelGilmor]

There will be no argument between you and me, I can tell when I am talking to a reasonable person, and I am as reasonable as well, no matter if we are viewing things from two different angles.

I have no doubt that Hatchingegg and Apoc had been working on it since day one. And I have much respect for their talent, it’s their bread and butter, and they are good at what they do, as much as I believe that all of us are good with what we do.

They are geniuses. We are lucky these guys are working on our side. Without them we would be limited to the services that Niantic want to deliver us which some of them are very limited.

In my assumption, when there is a minor update, each competing bot and map owners do their own update. And it normally only takes days, sometimes less. But when a major update such as this, these bot and map owners go back to their community of developers and tackle the problem together. They may not support each other’s businesses, Waryas for example is the lead developer of FastPokeMap, and Hatchingegg is the lead developer for PF, yet they worked together to hack the API. That’s is Phase one. While in progress, no update is being done to their own products since it is pointless to update something when they know that it is not going to work without the hacked API. That is why none of the bot and map owners can give an ETA to their clients is because they don’t know when they can hack it, as each one of them are given piece of the pie to work on. No ETA on API means zero ETA on their own respective products.

I'm glad you explain this thoroughly. Some times the updates and patches to the security protocols that Niantic apply can be bypassed quickly, like the last update to 0.45 which HatchingEgg resolved within hours. Other times, they take weeks like the one they used for API 0.39. The important thing here to understand and why we have to be patient is when the coders have said they won't give up. You know that an update to the security is coming.

This Security Protocol is like the ticket you use to enter to a Water Park. Say, Niantic is giving Red Tickets to all of his Customers, but he changes his security protocol and starts giving Blue Tickets. For some time Niantic customers are using Red and Blue Tickets play in the park. But then one day he instructs all of his customers with Red Tickets to get a Blue Ticket cause the Red Ticket has expired. When a bot user wants to check in at the Water Park he enters with the Red Ticket. The guy at the door sees you are a cheater cause you are using a red ticket and Niantic customers use Blue Tickets. Perhaps he will let you enter and play at the park so he can test his captcha and security and learns bot behavior patters cause he already knows all red ticket customers are bots. And he also marks you as a cheater, so that when Niantic has learned all your bot behaviours and if you are still not tired of answering captchas at his best convenience when the time arrives he deletes all cheaters in a banwave. #ByeFelicia

Once successful, they can finally move on to phase two, which is incorporating the hacked API to their own products and updating their own product starts, maps, trackers, bots, etc… That is the only time that they can give an ETA to their customer. This is what most common clients think we are at right now.

Phase three is beta testing

Phase four is delivery to customer.

They are not even halfway in phase one yet, that’s why I said they haven’t touched Pokefarmer yet. It’s pointless to update Pokefarmer without a hacked API, it will not work

These, in my own opinion, and my own alone, needs to be conveyed to the clients. The reason why everyone is asking for an ETA is because they think that they are already working on updating the Pokefarmer itself, which should only take days. And it should once the API has been hacked. Some of them don’t know the magnitude of the problem that these developers are facing. Telling them to be patient without explanation is like telling the kids to shut up without even explaining to them why. That is not enough, they are not kids, they are business partners and customers, they will ask. But once they are told about the process, then they might understand. It’s not really pokefarmer’s fault that the bot is down. It’s like PF is a car manufacturer, and the bot is a car. The car was perfectly working well with unleaded fuel until Niantic stopped the production of unleaded fuel and switched to gasohol. Nobody should blame PF why the car that they purchased earlier cannot work on gasohol, but right now they are trying to find a way to run the bot in gasohol, and its taking time, but people will understand once explained, and they will blame Niantic instead for stopping the production of gasoline..

I think imho People get cranky because, in your analogy, They see other people driving the car still running with gasoline, not knowing that all drivers riding in those cars will have their driver's license revoked with no driving privileges. While Pokefarmer got smart and parked his car knowing that free rides with cars using gasoline was over several days ago. Some other people just don't care about it. They don't care those accounts will be banned cause they only want to sell them before the banwave hits.

I am also passionate when it comes to assisting other people as well, but I think this is something that they can build around their business infrastructure. Everyone has the mentality that this is just a small business. I think I was the one who commented that the amount I paid for a month’s bot cannot even buy me a cup of latte at Starbucks, or a bottle of beer. I mentioned that because it is true. But at the height of this game’s popularity, PF boasted 600,000 members, If I can quote one of the staffs here. At $5.00 each, that is $3,000,000.00 revenue per month. Even if the number of clients dramatically decreased to only 6,000 customers at this current point, that is still $30,000,00 revenue per month. I don’t know about the overhead, but in my book, a business like this is not small, there is money in this business, so I think the clients deserve something better, not merely relying on paying customers like us to attend our own, providing our own unofficial update.

The problem with unofficial thread is that it is easy to get ambushed and change the topic completely, like this one. It also opens door for argument since it is unofficial, and based on unofficial source, posted by unofficial member. It is also easy to get buried under other posts. I think there should be a post that is official, controlled by moderators so there can never be argument, posted by official person so it will be like a gospel, sticky so it will always be up there no matter how many posts are made.

Unfortunately, this is the best that I can refer to the clients asking for update:

https://www.thebuddyforum.com/pokefarmer-forum/272194-pokefarmer-update-thread.html

Well like I said earlier, I'd rather want to have HatchingEgg breaking his head trying to figure out the security protocol rather than him giving us, useless updates saying they are working on a fix. People are just plane lazy and they don't read the information. Some don't even care to read a sticky post less likely to search for this insightful information. I think we have discussed this issue over and over after every update.

 

[CAcove]

I completely understand what you are saying and I agree again with most of it.

In my assumption, when there is a minor update, each competing bot and map owners do their own update. And it normally only takes days, sometimes less. But when a major update such as this, these bot and map owners go back to their community of developers and tackle the problem together. They may not support each other’s businesses, Waryas for example is the lead developer of FastPokeMap, and Hatchingegg is the lead developer for PF, yet they worked together to hack the API. That’s is Phase one. While in progress, no update is being done to their own products since it is pointless to update something when they know that it is not going to work without the hacked API. That is why none of the bot and map owners can give an ETA to their clients is because they don’t know when they can hack it, as each one of them are given piece of the pie to work on. No ETA on API means zero ETA on their own respective products.

I think the biggest issue here, is that honestly the PF crew is the ONLY real crew officially working on it. From what we have been informed most of every other bot dev has stopped working on it and gave up (unless they are doing so in secret and not wanting to share the progress with the rest of the community, which for all intensive purposes for this one, is the same as not working on it at all). With that said, despite it being a large update, the community is quiet and that doesn't help.

As for your comment

I don’t know about the overhead, but in my book, a business like this is not small, there is money in this business, so I think the clients deserve something better, not merely relying on paying customers like us to attend our own, providing our own unofficial update.

I agree that a business needs to buckle down, but what we don't hear about (and rightfully so) is the strife that happens when a staff member leaves the crew. We are dealing with a serious IP and Trade Secret situation... As devs that is literally the only way to truly protect your coding and business. To enforce a legal action after said coding could be leaked to everyone from a past member leaving, is still moot... The coding is released, the bot goes down, they loose their rights, and business is gone, once that happens profits from the 16+ hours a day worth of work that they are making plummets to a point it is no longer consistently sustainable to spend that long, from there people leave and go to another company because the time can no longer be spent as much for each update, taking longer thus the vicious circle begins again... As a business owner, I can understand the risks on both sides.. I have heard whispers that there are a few staff who either rage quit or have left and caused issues. I also know that niantic and other bot companies are trying to weasel in to steal data posing as eager people to help... Once hired onto the team, while actively employed its alot harder to prove that they got the data for malicious purposes (ie sending to Niantic or elsewhere). Then we have to look at the flip side that if they don't have SOME sort of updates then we have a flood of people crying and complaining (not referring to you) and are ready to leave, because the devs cant/wont drop everything to post regular updates.... There have been some, but only on the discord channel. We also must remember its something mentioned that they will not post pointless updates on these forums, and they will not post all specific details as the "enemy eyes" ARE on them thus we have that issue to figure out... Again I will not discredit the need for updates, and honestly if everyone actually joined discord, and read before they typed, I think alot of these complaints would be minimalized (again not referring to you specifically).

The problem with unofficial thread is that it is easy to get ambushed and change the topic completely, like this one. It also opens door for argument since it is unofficial, and based on unofficial source, posted by unofficial member. It is also easy to get buried under other posts. I think there should be a post that is official, controlled by moderators so there can never be argument, posted by official person so it will be like a gospel, sticky so it will always be up there no matter how many posts are made.

That could work, except unfortunately we have seen that people will just argue there, and the ranting raging and diverting of the main subject gets lost even in there.... Too many people on here, refuse to educate themselves, are trolls eager for troll wars, or just wouldn't/don't understand half of the official updates anyways.

I have also been of the opinion that if we have a large community like this one, then we should be willing to help one another when it is necessary or when we have a answer/solution. If we can't do that then why have a community, just post a locked forum where no one can reply and force everyone to send in emails.... I guess that's why while I agree you have diversions even in unofficial posts, its better than nothing from anyone at all, and again I would rather them be working on the fix instead of posting un-necessary or pointless repeated updates like: "No major progress yet, might have found something but need to look into it further, this will be a long process". If they posted that (which is the truth many times) over and over again, people will just complain that there isn't a "NEW" update... again I do totally understand what you are saying, agree with alot of it, and respect you for it, but I wanted to shed light from the other side of the fence for this, and for your consideration.