isn't it strange that the healer is the only one to survive dugeon bans

[harleystcool]

Hey its farmer harley here
Got hit on my 5 man botting team today, only the healer survived, but i've read alot of reports that the healer is the only one to survive. Which tells me most of these bans are automated, that a gm doesn't go over your ip's or other bullshit (or if they do, then your very unlucky to get a gm). Healers get no kills, and don't get triggered

 

[frosticus]

healers in a dungeon do indeed 'get kills'. they would be credited with any kill tagged by the group. evidence would be loot eligibility.

 

[harleystcool]

healers in a dungeon do indeed 'get kills'. they would be credited with any kill tagged by the group. evidence would be loot eligibility.

then why don't healers get hit?

 

[frosticus]

im not proving the theory of 'healers not getting hit as often'.
im disproving your theory 'healers dont get banned as often and its because of kills counted'.

 

[harleystcool]

guys we gotta solve why healers don't get hit then

 

[dragonbuddy]

5 healer party = untouchable

 

[Snotya]

my guess is healers routines vary more than a dps. Health pools are very random so it might be harder for their system to detect. I suspect there is multiple triggers that set off the ban. We see dungeons get hit the most and the dps. Possibly repeated pathing + rotation ? I think bliz left us a bit of a clue how their system works by not zapping the healers. It's a good idea to brain storm on it a bit.

 

[harleystcool]

my guess is healers routines vary more than a dps. Health pools are very random so it might be harder for their system to detect. I suspect there is multiple triggers that set off the ban. We see dungeons get hit the most and the dps. Possibly repeated pathing + rotation ? I think bliz left us a bit of a clue how their system works by not zapping the healers. It's a good idea to brain storm on it a bit.

agreed

 

[pimpampum]

I've always considered that they could be checking total damage done on X dungeon (if they have have more firepower to check, ad X+Y+Z dungeon, or X+Y+Z mobs.(from the dungeons). on a determinate time, of course.

So, in the first case, they could have an autoban measure (lets say you've done enough damage to X mobs to clear the instance 1000 times in the last 7 days.) And a flag feature (you've done enough damage to clear the instance 200 times in the last 7 days.)

Then, they could be adjusting those checks to be more accurate adding a different variable. Just saying.

 

[Aion]

I've always considered that they could be checking total damage done on X dungeon (if they have have more firepower to check, ad X+Y+Z dungeon, or X+Y+Z mobs.(from the dungeons). on a determinate time, of course.

So, in the first case, they could have an autoban measure (lets say you've done enough damage to X mobs to clear the instance 1000 times in the last 7 days.) And a flag feature (you've done enough damage to clear the instance 200 times in the last 7 days.)

Then, they could be adjusting those checks to be more accurate adding a different variable. Just saying.

Good try, but instead I suggest you to look from other point of view:

They could take the total damage done, killed mobs etc, or anything farming-related, but they have to compare it to account's total activity. Like ran instances X times in the last X days, but done nothing beside that in its online time, or doing the repeated actions, classified as "Botting activity" by the server in X% of the online time, and doing other actions in the remaining 100-X% online time. This could be compared to the total online time too, like Y hours out of 24h online daily.

It have been confirmed number of times, that if you Do randomize account's activities, you could fool the auto-ban system and delay the flagging and penalty actions with a wide margin!

For example, I have been running several PP rogues 12 hours/day, with 6 hours downtime, and 6 hours spamming Random LFRs and the usual Garrison stuff, once a week killing outdoor bosses, and of course - not farming in the pre-maintenance day (Tuesday on the EU) .. and they were re-subbed 2 times already, and still to get banned

 

[DrFeedo]

My thoughts after few bans.
1. They dont ban healer because they cant farm efficient (exept druid)
2. When they leave healer they flag him because they know person who runs 5man teams will create new one and that healer will flagg rest team then. Basicly leaving trail.
3. When only healer survive ea team gets banned faster and faster (my expirience)

So basicly when healer survive its better to forget about that account and just create new team

 

[Snotya]

My thoughts after few bans.
2. When they leave healer they flag him because they know person who runs 5man teams will create new one and that healer will flagg rest team then. Basicly leaving trail.
3. When only healer survive ea team gets banned faster and faster (my expirience)

A good point that I never thought of. Anyone else have this experience with using a healer from a previous banned 5 man team ?
If so does the healer survive a 2nd ban of the team ?
-does the hearler get ban the 2nd time around before the dps ?
-do they all get banned together the 2nd time around ?

 

[harleystcool]

no it has nothing to do with leaving a trail, otherwise my questing guys would have got hit too.

Guys its about the healer not triggering something, thats it. Its automated.

 

[Snotya]

no it has nothing to do with leaving a trail, otherwise my questing guys would have got hit too.

Guys its about the healer not triggering something, thats it. Its automated.

I think we all can agree that the bans are mostly automated. The question is what is different about the healers. We all assume time played is a trigger but that seems to not be totally true. Just like our bot behavior is detectable so is the auto ban. Drilling down on what is different about healers is going to shed some light on their auto ban system and how we can avoid it. Reading through ban reports gives us some data, enough to know that something is going on with healers. But more data needs to be collected from a controlled set of 24/7 botters with set parameters, graphed and plotted.
I feel like the attitude here is nobody can ever know how the bans work, this doesn't need to be true. I like how this thread is working forward in a positive way that could contribute some answers.

I would love to be the egghead that puts in the work to ***** it, but sadly the wife says I have to go to work to pay this mortgage thingy we have.

 

[Snotya]

Good try, but instead I suggest you to look from other point of view:

They could take the total damage done, killed mobs etc, or anything farming-related, but they have to compare it to account's total activity. Like ran instances X times in the last X days, but done nothing beside that in its online time, or doing the repeated actions, classified as "Botting activity" by the server in X% of the online time, and doing other actions in the remaining 100-X% online time. This could be compared to the total online time too, like Y hours out of 24h online daily.

It have been confirmed number of times, that if you Do randomize account's activities, you could fool the auto-ban system and delay the flagging and penalty actions with a wide margin!

For example, I have been running several PP rogues 12 hours/day, with 6 hours downtime, and 6 hours spamming Random LFRs and the usual Garrison stuff, once a week killing outdoor bosses, and of course - not farming in the pre-maintenance day (Tuesday on the EU) .. and they were re-subbed 2 times already, and still to get banned

So the accounts lasted about 60 days
Total time played: 936 hours
Total PP time:624 hours
other: 312 hours

The other 6 hours playing was just you playing yourself normally ? Or just random botting outside of the normal grinds?

If we compare that with a 24/7 dungeon bot we get (assuming 5 days to level and about 20 days before ban) ??? I maybe out to lunch with those #'s
Accounts lasted 25 days
Total time played: 600 hours
Total dungeon time:480 hours

Healers= 600 hours +

I'm aware these are bad examples from a non controlled group. But I made the examples to show that some of the answers and more questions can be brought to light with collecting the proper data from a controlled group.

So just comparing these 2 examples we have:
Total hours played minus "other" = close to the same
between 600-900 hours bot time with DPS
144 hours difference in grind time: PP vs Dungeon
if he accurately charted his time would total bot time actually be closer to the same ?
DId those 312 hours of "other time" extend his grind time?
Can other time be comparable to healers as healer routines are more random?
How many total hours can a healer go ?
Does 500 hours of repeatable actions/area trigger auto ban despite "other time"?