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Disappointed

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etmawow

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May 2, 2010
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Hi DB Team

I'm a long user of HonorBuddy, and have made a few plugins for this. So I figured, once I noticed you had released a D3 bot, that it must be good.
However, I must admit I was fairly disappointed. The bot runs very poorly imho.

It crashes often.
The pathfinding is poor, so it gets stuck alot.
The documentation for developers is non-existing (yes I know I can use object explorer, it doesn't tell me where methods/objects/info is though nor what the abbreviations is for)
The plugin-part doesn't allow dll files and fails when have to compile entity models.

I'm sure I will find some more the further I come with it.

Consider this constructive criticism rather than blame/flame. I do not regret supporting your work by buying the bot, I'm just disappointed in the way it runs, compared to honorbuddy.

Regards,
etmawow
 
keep in mind that honor buddy started on the same grounds, and has had the time to expand and become what it is today. being your a 2010 I would figure you know this so I wont explain much more. There is plenty of these threads open as is, I am sure they are well aware of what people may feel in relation to how you do.
 
They should of made it subscription based, that way they have incentives to improve it faster because income will come monthly. People will cancel it if it doesn't go well, which might motivate them.

In other words, for example, lets say everyone already bought lifetime membership and say 6 months down the road, no one is buying any more membership cause they already got it. So there isn't any income coming in for them to continue this.
What would drive them to improve demonbuddy and make it better 6 months down the road, when they don't see any more profits coming in?

Or a year down the road?

If it was me, and I wasn't making profit for 1 year straight, basically my work is going no where (time is money), and seems like a better option just to drop the project and move on (since I already made all I could on this project). But that's just me =).
 
There is a small gap that can't be filled atm.

Nesox is on holidays and apoc is working hard on hb, hb is on a higher priority atm, not because of the money, but because a not working bot is far worse than the state of db atm.
You know what I mean?

They will continue to work on it ASAP and some day it will be at the level of hb, at least close, I'm confident about this.

The. The money argument is completely invalid. They spend so much money on the lawsuit and even have a bank account with 100k € just for the lawsuit and everything that comes with it.

Everyone who just wanted the money would be long gone...

;)
 
zippysticks said:
If it was me, and I wasn't making profit for 1 year straight, basically my work is going no where (time is money)
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you've never started a company or know anything about it? dont expect a company to make money the first couple of years, unless they have a hit product.. :p
 
zippysticks said:
They should of made it subscription based, that way they have incentives to improve it faster because income will come monthly. People will cancel it if it doesn't go well, which might motivate them.

In other words, for example, lets say everyone already bought lifetime membership and say 6 months down the road, no one is buying any more membership cause they already got it. So there isn't any income coming in for them to continue this.
What would drive them to improve demonbuddy and make it better 6 months down the road, when they don't see any more profits coming in?

Or a year down the road?

If it was me, and I wasn't making profit for 1 year straight, basically my work is going no where (time is money), and seems like a better option just to drop the project and move on (since I already made all I could on this project). But that's just me =).
Click to expand...
Making it subscription based wouldnt really benefit them and it would be kinda risky IMO.
 
zippysticks said:
They should of made it subscription based, that way they have incentives to improve it faster because income will come monthly. People will cancel it if it doesn't go well, which might motivate them.

In other words, for example, lets say everyone already bought lifetime membership and say 6 months down the road, no one is buying any more membership cause they already got it. So there isn't any income coming in for them to continue this.
What would drive them to improve demonbuddy and make it better 6 months down the road, when they don't see any more profits coming in?

Or a year down the road?

If it was me, and I wasn't making profit for 1 year straight, basically my work is going no where (time is money), and seems like a better option just to drop the project and move on (since I already made all I could on this project). But that's just me =).
Click to expand...
the reason why we stuck with the model we have now, is because there was a time where honorbuddy WAS subscription based, when we needed to adjust pricing for whatever reason people complained and complained and complained. unlike you people dont like being charged over and over again and having to worry about how much time the key has left on it. and if your running a business say 10 bots, dealing with 10 different keys all starting and ending at different times does not work.

i dont know how many times ive said it today, but people keep making threads, so to make sure people read it, im going to put it in all caps and im going to bold it, DEMONBUDDY IS STILL BEING WORKED ON we have developers looking into the crashes, and working on making improvements. that line "they dont have incentive" we are working on fixing the issues.

as far as documentation goes for the api, if you load up your project correctly, and you know how to code, you should be able to figure out what you need to do what you want. 99% of the time the people who want documentation have no idea how to code, or the difference between a an INT and a BOOL, we cannot sit down and teach you to program, and the api (for the most part) is labeled as it is, if you still have questions that's why we have the developers section so you can get help from a peer, since if our devs spent all day in answering questions on the forums, no work would get done, and we would end up with the same " *product name here* is broken and your not working on it".

thats MY view on the entire thing.

this product is STILL very young and its going to take time to refine things like movement, but in the months we have had a working product its already come a long way. in a year from now if your still having crashing issues, or whatever, then feel free to make a thread with a detailed description of the problem with a full log as an attachment and we will be more then glad to help you, but this "im going to make a thread, put out all the bad and complain" threads are getting really old. if your having a problem then you need to submit it as a problem, not a rant.

if you feel you are "disappointed" then feel free to send an e-mail to [email protected] with your transaction ID and a refund will be provided to you.
 
buzzerbeater said:
There is a small gap that can't be filled atm.

Nesox is on holidays and apoc is working hard on hb, hb is on a higher priority atm, not because of the money, but because a not working bot is far worse than the state of db atm.
You know what I mean?

They will continue to work on it ASAP and some day it will be at the level of hb, at least close, I'm confident about this.

The. The money argument is completely invalid. They spend so much money on the lawsuit and even have a bank account with 100k € just for the lawsuit and everything that comes with it.

Everyone who just wanted the money would be long gone...

;)
Click to expand...

Yea, I get that HB is being prioritized for MoP, which is fine.. it's just some annoying bugs and lacks in DB, so thought I'd give my 2 cents about it.. wether people agree or not, I don't care about.. :)

If noone say what they're missing in a product, the developers might focus on something noone actually need/want, if you know what I mean :)
 
buzzerbeater said:
There is a small gap that can't be filled atm.

Nesox is on holidays and apoc is working hard on hb, hb is on a higher priority atm, not because of the money, but because a not working bot is far worse than the state of db atm.
You know what I mean?

They will continue to work on it ASAP and some day it will be at the level of hb, at least close, I'm confident about this.

The. The money argument is completely invalid. They spend so much money on the lawsuit and even have a bank account with 100k € just for the lawsuit and everything that comes with it.

Everyone who just wanted the money would be long gone...

;)
Click to expand...
none of us, that work on this product are here for the money, yea money is nice, but if money was everything we would of just packed it in with everyone else when we got sued. im here because i love this place (even though i have to deal with a lot of crap) but a job where i get to play wow people dream of that sort of shit, and we have that job. yea the pay isnt going to make me rich, but its enough and i love it. just like i know apoc loves reversing shit. its not about the money for us.
 
CodenameG said:
as far as documentation goes for the api, if you load up your project correctly, and you know how to code, you should be able to figure out what you need to do what you want. 99% of the time the people who want documentation have no idea how to code, or the difference between a an INT and a BOOL, we cannot sit down and teach you to program, and the api (for the most part) is labeled as it is, if you still have questions that's why we have the developers section so you can get help from a peer, since if our devs spent all day in answering questions on the forums, no work would get done, and we would end up with the same " *product name here* is broken and your not working on it".
Click to expand...

I'm not the world best developer, no, but I do know the difference of INT and BOOL, how to delegate etc.. I still would like some comments in the API, just like HB have (dont know how soon it was added there).


CodenameG said:
this product is STILL very young and its going to take time to refine things like movement, but in the months we have had a working product its already come a long way. in a year from now if your still having crashing issues, or whatever, then feel free to make a thread with a detailed description of the problem with a full log as an attachment and we will be more then glad to help you, but this "im going to make a thread, put out all the bad and complain" threads are getting really old. if your having a problem then you need to submit it as a problem, not a rant.
Click to expand...

Was not to "rant", but to point out what I thought was missing.. In retrospect, he topic "disappointed" might have been wrong to use..

CodenameG said:
if you feel you are "disappointed" then feel free to send an e-mail to [email protected] with your transaction ID and a refund will be provided to you.
Click to expand...

Read my full post..
 
etmawow said:
Hi DB Team

I'm a long user of HonorBuddy, and have made a few plugins for this. So I figured, once I noticed you had released a D3 bot, that it must be good.
However, I must admit I was fairly disappointed. The bot runs very poorly imho.

It crashes often.
The pathfinding is poor, so it gets stuck alot.
The documentation for developers is non-existing (yes I know I can use object explorer, it doesn't tell me where methods/objects/info is though nor what the abbreviations is for)
The plugin-part doesn't allow dll files and fails when have to compile entity models.

I'm sure I will find some more the further I come with it.

Consider this constructive criticism rather than blame/flame. I do not regret supporting your work by buying the bot, I'm just disappointed in the way it runs, compared to honorbuddy.

Regards,
etmawow
Click to expand...

Prior to buying the bot (no, I didn't even bother to buy the 1 day trial), I expected it to be click and play. It didn't turn out that way but I'm not bothered by it. I do not have programming background and creating your own profiles is simple enough if you take a little effort. Besides, relying on official profiles is highly unsafe as Blizzard can counter code for pattern recognition.

Pathfinding issues (excluding random dungeons), CAN be avoided with proper profiling. I run my own private profiles and all my bots go through the entire sessions without a single stuck, unless the NAV server goes down. For documentation, I didn't really bother with it, I just opened pre-made profiles and studied how tags were used, much more efficient :)

My main gimp about DB is that Random Dungeons does not work properly, and that being an API side issue, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it but wait (it seems like a really long wait for that one). There are other bots out there with working random dungeons, but I choose to stick with DB merely because I think DB is by far "safer" than the competition out there and they don't run away at the first sight of lawyers.
 
etmawow said:
I'm not the world best developer, no, but I do know the difference of INT and BOOL, how to delegate etc.. I still would like some comments in the API, just like HB have (dont know how soon it was added there).




Was not to "rant", but to point out what I thought was missing.. In retrospect, he topic "disappointed" might have been wrong to use..



Read my full post..
Click to expand...

it wasn't directed at you, but more the community, i didn't have you specifically in mind when i wrote it. right now we're in a tough transitional period as expansions and major patches always are, DB is still a major priority for us, but people need to know, threads like these puts a lot of stress on everyone. its not as easy as just flipping a switch. everyone is busy, everyone is working.

if you PM me a list of API you need clarification on (and i mean really good ones, cause im going to bug apoc or someone whos time is better off doing something else) ill make a sticky in the DB developers section with it.
 
Last edited:
xzhenx said:
Prior to buying the bot (no, I didn't even bother to buy the 1 day trial), I expected it to be click and play. It didn't turn out that way but I'm not bothered by it. I do not have programming background and creating your own profiles is simple enough if you take a little effort. Besides, relying on official profiles is highly unsafe as Blizzard can counter code for pattern recognition.

Pathfinding issues (excluding random dungeons), CAN be avoided with proper profiling. I run my own private profiles and all my bots go through the entire sessions without a single stuck, unless the NAV server goes down. For documentation, I didn't really bother with it, I just opened pre-made profiles and studied how tags were used, much more efficient :)

My main gimp about DB is that Random Dungeons does not work properly, and that being an API side issue, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it but wait (it seems like a really long wait for that one). There are other bots out there with working random dungeons, but I choose to stick with DB merely because I think DB is by far "safer" than the competition out there and they don't run away at the first sight of lawyers.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about plugin-development, C#.. the XML profile is very simple indeed..

CodenameG said:
it wasn't directed at you, but more the community, i didn't have you specifically in mind when i wrote it. right now we're in a tough transitional period as expansions and major patches always are, DB is still a major priority for us, but people need to know, threads like these puts a lot of stress on everyone. its not as easy as just flipping a switch. everyone is busy, everyone is working.

if you PM me a list of API you need clarification on (and i mean really good ones, cause im going to bug apoc or someone whos time is better off doing something else) ill make a sticky in the DB developers section with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks.. When I have a list (if I dont figure it out myself), I'll send it to you.. :)
 
etmawow said:
I'm talking about plugin-development, C#.. the XML profile is very simple indeed..



Thanks.. When I have a list (if I dont figure it out myself), I'll send it to you.. :)
Click to expand...
would you mind if i lock this thread now? have all your questions / issues been addressed?
 
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