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Blizzard Gm admit that they are scanning your computer while playing.

Pop430

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Joined
Dec 26, 2013
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4
Alright, so Idk if it's anything new or big info but I was discussing with a gm saying "well I'm afraid if I take another clean account I may get ban even without botting what so ever" :

1486559915-gm-2.png




Translation of the last 5 messages :

You : Alright but may the mere presence of said bot on my HD coud lead to a ban ?
You : Assuming there is not bot usage of course.
Gm : Of course, if it is active within the active programs it may be detected and the account banned. To avoid this there is only one this to do, remove it completely.
You : Alright, then the game scan my open programs while the game is running ?
Gm : That's exact.
 
There's a big difference in scanning your PC and scanning running programs though.
 
If you own a program on your pc, say HB, but you're not using it, it thereby doesn't show in your "running programs" so if reports of ban on fresh account are true that mean they are scanning your pc.
 
If you own a program on your pc, say HB, but you're not using it, it thereby doesn't show in your "running programs" so if reports of ban on fresh account are true that mean they are scanning your pc.

Maybe....or maybe they opened it.

The GM was actually quite clear and also a bit pushy in a way.

He/she said and I quote "Of course, if it is active within the active programs it may be detected and the account banned." - That says clearly ACTIVE.

Now where he/she is pushy is when they say "To avoid this there is only one this to do, remove it completely." because that means one of two things really. 1. We are scared that we may ban accounts not using the bot because of detection on the computer OR 2. Please delete it!! Pulease.

All that said I say this. I have been hearing about a ton of "clean" accounts getting banned. Accounts never botted on and my summation is that in their scans they are looking for many things and some are:

1. Active programs - Is HB or any other bot there?
2. IP Address - To see if this IP address was used by a botter before
3. Hardware ID and MAC Address - To compare this against their database of "bad" IDs and in conjunction possibly with IP addresses to confirm botters.

So it's not one thing being scanned for so maybe you get away with not active but caught because the hardware ID or mac address matched.

So, ya nuh safe no way no how.

What would be nice is if the bot somehow created a random name that it is called within the active programs and that name becomes part of the handshake back to HB servers. This would make it difficult for their scans to locate the bot in active programs. The next problem is the mac address and hardware ids but they can be changed.

What would be really nice is if someone made a script, a small program that changes your mac address and hardware ids to random numbers. People should be prompted possibly by the bot to change their IDs once or twice monthly.

This is the best way to keep accounts safe.

These are just random thoughts on how to protect accounts from the things we know. Or me talking out of my a@@ but these are the kinds of conversations we need to start having. How can we pool the talents of the community to help make detection of accounts more difficult? We probably can't beat full blown detection but maybe we can make it difficult when they are trying to validate certain things.
 
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What would be nice is if the bot somehow created a random name that it is called within the active programs and that name becomes part of the handshake back to HB servers. This would make it difficult for their scans to locate the bot in active programs. The next problem is the mac address and hardware ids but they can be changed.
This right here has perplexed me for years, I never understood why they insisted on having HonorBuddys name in your process list, I vaguely remember someone bringing it up a few years ago but I don't remember what the devs reply was. Doesn't make sense to me to not have a random name generated, I don't mean something stupid like Hnmfkajh*78ws7dhawnd because that's just as fucking suspicious, but maybe some kind of word bank to pull 3 to 6 random words and make a false name.

Meh. Not my product.
 
This right here has perplexed me for years, I never understood why they insisted on having HonorBuddys name in your process list, I vaguely remember someone bringing it up a few years ago but I don't remember what the devs reply was. Doesn't make sense to me to not have a random name generated, I don't mean something stupid like Hnmfkajh*78ws7dhawnd because that's just as fucking suspicious, but maybe some kind of word bank to pull 3 to 6 random words and make a false name.

Meh. Not my product.

I recall that also and partially where my thought came from but reading the GM responses and my knowledge of pass convos I have read reminded me of that.

I just really think we need to start pooling knowledge and skills to move the COMMUNITY forward and offer Boss some suggestions.
 
GM's have no clue what they are talking about. They don't understand Warden ban mechanics any better than us.

Anyone that does know anything interesting would never share it in a customer support chat with a customer
 
GM's have no clue what they are talking about. They don't understand Warden ban mechanics any better than us.

Anyone that does know anything interesting would never share it in a customer support chat with a customer


^^ This
 
When running, the World of Warcraft client may monitor your computer's random access memory (ram) and/or cpu processes for unauthorized third party programs running concurrently with World of Warcraft. An unauthorized third party program as used herein shall be defined as any third party software, including without limitation any addon or mod, that in Blizzard Entertainment's sole determination:

Pretty well known...
 
GM's have no clue what they are talking about. They don't understand Warden ban mechanics any better than us.

Anyone that does know anything interesting would never share it in a customer support chat with a customer
Correct.

Game masters are just front end customer support, clearing Blizzard's petition queues.

In Europe at least, they even hired 3rd party company in Ireland several years ago, when queues were 14+ hours long to do the Customer Support job.

So, the point is, that the whole seek & ban mechanism is company's trade secret, which the majority of Blizzard employers are not enlighten with, even Game Masters - they can only see the action, taken on the accounts, with some different remarks, depend on the severity and so on.

On banwaves, for example, the ordinary GMs have no rights to unban certain account. Their only option is to escalate it to higher rank Senior Game Master, which "maybe" have access to part of this ban mechanism, or most likely to the result of it, and could have bit more power regarding unbans, in case the account is proved to be hacked or so on.
 
Yeah, it's just bottom of the ladder people that are answering those tickets. They don't know anything.
 
GM's have no clue what they are talking about. They don't understand Warden ban mechanics any better than us.

Anyone that does know anything interesting would never share it in a customer support chat with a customer


Exactly ^^

it's like if a gold farmer will tell you how to farm gold xD
 
After reading a lot of posts about detection, something keeps annoying me about the way some people think it's done.

Detection doesn't happen as the process level, it literally scans the memory of the WoW client for injection/hook points. Blizz could care less what applications you've got open or what the process happens to be called or whether or not its 32/64 bit. An injection point would be bypassing the native client interface to trigger an event that would otherwise only be accessed by the client itself. By not interacting with the client (eg: sending keystrokes/clicking things) and performing these actions through the memory hook, there's a possibility of detecting that you're bypassing the client and sending it directly to memory (injecting). A detection "vector" as you may have seen mentioned, is just another method they've added to scan a for a new injection point. When HB detects that they've added a new "detection vector," they have to figure out a workaround to do the same thing without hitting that specific detection point. The same happens on reading memory to get details like distance from enemy, health values, etc. A banwave occurs when HB team fails to identify or fully understand the new method they're using to scan whatever injection point. According to bossland, Blizzard adds "detection vectors" pretty often and when they're found, it prevents another banwave.

Next thing is tripwire. So, tripwire may have, at one point, had a way to detect when HB was being targeted and fire an API to trigger tripwire, but I've seen no evidence that it works that way now. It seems to me that tripwire is nothing more than a way to prevent the community from shooting themselves in the foot. From what I see, it's not being used as anything more than a manual on/off switch or "oh shit" button to prevent people that don't troll forums every day from getting affected.

Last thing is GMs. So, GMs are typically underpaid helpdesk workers with limited IT experience, probably most in college or fresh out of college. All they do is ticket farming and have a pre-determined set of tools provided to them to do their job from development. These tools are all likely web-based and provide limited/no visibility into logs, account activity, or really anything of relevance other than what their tools can grab for them. Like any call center/help desk, the front line people aren't authorized to do much. Think about when you call your credit card company and ask for something, you'll normally have to ask for a supervisor or wait for a supervisor to approve. It's the same concept. So, who you're talking to likely has no idea about what you're even talking about, how the game works, or even what botting entails other than it's "bad." When you open a Blizzard ticket, it takes you to a portal where you select different categories. Depending on the category, the team will have different tools and different authority levels. Long story short, don't ever take anything a GM tells you for anything remotely close to factual, they have nothing to do with WHY or HOW they get the ticket to "investigate." They get a ticket in their queue, look at the description, run a tool that tells them what to do, and copy/paste you a generic "fuck you" email or close the ticket as "no trouble found." Another tip is to ALWAYS try to talk to someone in sales over any other department. They have the most authority/tools. Regardless, don't count on a ban/suspension reversal, a that would take escalation, which would take work, and we all know millennials are lazy pieces of shit :D Furthermore helpdesk SLAs are around time to closure so they're actually encouraged to avoid escalations to reduce ticket open times and time to resolution (KPIs in the support world).

Just wanted to share my experiences with ya. Hope it helps.

defnottabot
 
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Yeah, it's just bottom of the ladder people that are answering those tickets. They don't know anything.

So correct there

Blizzard has a special team and gms are paid very low wages compared to the hacks team that make warden
 
After reading a lot of posts about detection, something keeps annoying me about the way some people think it's done.

Detection doesn't happen as the process level, it literally scans the memory of the WoW client for injection/hook points. Blizz could care less what applications you've got open or what the process happens to be called or whether or not its 32/64 bit. An injection point would be bypassing the native client interface to trigger an event that would otherwise only be accessed by the client itself. By not interacting with the client (eg: sending keystrokes/clicking things) and performing these actions through the memory hook, there's a possibility of detecting that you're bypassing the client and sending it directly to memory (injecting). A detection "vector" as you may have seen mentioned, is just another method they've added to scan a for a new injection point. When HB detects that they've added a new "detection vector," they have to figure out a workaround to do the same thing without hitting that specific detection point. The same happens on reading memory to get details like distance from enemy, health values, etc. A banwave occurs when HB team fails to identify or fully understand the new method they're using to scan whatever injection point. According to bossland, Blizzard adds "detection vectors" pretty often and when they're found, it prevents another banwave.

Next thing is tripwire. So, tripwire may have, at one point, had a way to detect when HB was being targeted and fire an API to trigger tripwire, but I've seen no evidence that it works that way now. It seems to me that tripwire is nothing more than a way to prevent the community from shooting themselves in the foot. From what I see, it's not being used as anything more than a manual on/off switch or "oh shit" button to prevent people that don't troll forums every day from getting affected.

Last thing is GMs. So, GMs are typically underpaid helpdesk workers with limited IT experience, probably most in college or fresh out of college. All they do is ticket farming and have a pre-determined set of tools provided to them to do their job from development. These tools are all likely web-based and provide limited/no visibility into logs, account activity, or really anything of relevance other than what their tools can grab for them. Like any call center/help desk, the front line people aren't authorized to do much. Think about when you call your credit card company and ask for something, you'll normally have to ask for a supervisor or wait for a supervisor to approve. It's the same concept. So, who you're talking to likely has no idea about what you're even talking about, how the game works, or even what botting entails other than it's "bad." When you open a Blizzard ticket, it takes you to a portal where you select different categories. Depending on the category, the team will have different tools and different authority levels. Long story short, don't ever take anything a GM tells you for anything remotely close to factual, they have nothing to do with WHY or HOW they get the ticket to "investigate." They get a ticket in their queue, look at the description, run a tool that tells them what to do, and copy/paste you a generic "fuck you" email or close the ticket as "no trouble found." Another tip is to ALWAYS try to talk to someone in sales over any other department. They have the most authority/tools. Regardless, don't count on a ban/suspension reversal, a that would take escalation, which would take work, and we all know millennials are lazy pieces of shit :D Furthermore helpdesk SLAs are around time to closure so they're actually encouraged to avoid escalations to reduce ticket open times and time to resolution (KPIs in the support world).

Just wanted to share my experiences with ya. Hope it helps.

defnottabot
Regarding the GMs, a friend had recent experience with such, he was lucky to snipe a GM whisper on his rose farming account and responded to the conversation initiation from the GM and had some chat with him.

The chat conversations was interesting:

On first place, the GM assumed he was player, due to his heavily upgraded suicide bot - it was with 870ilvl, unlocked 3rd artifact, done WQs, dungeons and raids in his record (raid boosted for 100k gold ofc :D) and due to his immediate response ingame, most likely ;)

After brief chat, the GM shared, that he is clearing the zone of bots, which were recently reported ingame. And told him that out of the report list, he have witnessed and confirmed more than 30 reports for botting in this realm in ~20min timeframe.

So this means, that GMs have less than a minute to get and confirm each account reported (if its online), but if its not online, Im clueless ;) Maybe they wait for it to pop-up.

And one plus note - since this friend had suicide farming with the heavy geared toon, the GM would most likely recognize the farming pattern if he check his online behavior, but he definitely have not done it, since not penalitized him, and assumed he is legit player. Or he could suspect his botting, but not cared, if he was focusing to ban only the green geared 105-110 level suicide suramar farmers.
 
I have botted on accounts in background while running a clean account on same pc and the clean account was banned.
 
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