6 mth ban, I was not botting, I did have hb on my system though, my response back pt2

[airwaveflyer]

The following is a ticket i have just opened after getting banned a couple of days ago (banned for 6 months) and getting nowhere with the support idiots.

I'm not a lawyer but I do believe what I wrote is valid in the EU/UK, though I do suspect they will kick me out for good after reading it, I did not add the bit about why the eula/tos is invalid as I ran out of space but if I will post up that bit if I ever get anywhere with them. but one angle is to sue Blizz not for banning you but for not properly investigating your appeal (it's a different thing and almost indefensible against) the detriment is of course only any money you paid in advance and may not be worth getting a permanent ban for some.

-------------------------------------------------

My wow account has been banned and the original ticket I opened has been cancelled, what you cancelled and ignored was a formal and legal request, further failure will be a breach of EU law and I will be forced to report you to the data commissioner should you fail to provide the data requested.

I give notice that under EU Data Protection Directive (95/46/EC) I am exercising my right to check the data Activision or associated companies/subsidiaries hold about myself and that such data is correct and being handled in accordance with data protection laws.

I dispute the validity of the wow eula/tos, under UK law, I believe the said eula/tos breaches the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

I further dispute the validity of your actions against my account, I believe the eula/tos has been rendered invalid by the non enforcement of said and further that the eula/tos is ambiguous in the wording and therefore unenforceable under EU/UK law and that by Activision actions I have received detriment.

Activion have based their decision on an illegal search of my system, it is disputed that if such a search legal or not had provided the file-names of programs Activision considered in breach of the eula/tos that such discovery was not proof that such had been used during access to Activision servers and that Activisions denial of access to my account amounts to a breach of contract and that such has caused me detriment.

I request acknowledgement of this request within 48 hours and for all information held by Activision or associated companies/subsidiaries to be forwarded to my physical or email address in a timely fashion, this I believe is currently 40 days.

I trust this request will not be treated with the contempt my previous request was given and I look forward to your response and the data I have requested.

Regards airwaveflyer

-------------------------------------------------

 

[webhond]

so u made a post after finally noticing no one could reply in the ban thread.

blizz reads this as well and be sure, any ticket made with even a part of your context in it, wil be deleted or at
least not be answered.

i believe theres a post allr claiming gms have the right to decline every appeal made after this banwave with a
standard 1-5 reply.

o wait, i forgot. in 3 years. u made 2 posts.. these...

/tinfoil hat!

 

[rarekillerupdate1]

You were caught red handed botting, don't try to lie and deny it lol. Just accept the ban and move on.

 

[Thecamel]

Um your forget one thing..

Blizzard owns your account.. They don't need a reason to suspend it....

A GM could perm bann your account with the reason- I don't like his hair style..

There is nothing a 3rd party could do too help you. Their TOS are very clear, That your account could be suspended at any time for any reason- They don't even need to let you know or respond to you..

 

[airwaveflyer]

In response to Webhond

I did not notice i was posting in the wrong section, but as I don't seem to be able to delete the original post I'm hoping a mod will delete it for me

I don't get your point, why is it's relevant to anything that I have only made 2 posts in 3 years? just because you spend all your spare time on here (1987 posts)

I won't apologise for having a life outside of wow or this forum!

 

[airwaveflyer]

In response to Rarekillerupdate1

No I was not and I don't need to lie about it.

My account has 2 toons both lvl90, I play only wow a couple of hours a month due to the medication I take for a severe disability, it stops me being able to concentrate enough to play more than 20 or 30 mins at a time, that's why I don't raid at all and have only ever played a handful of dungeons, I used HB to lvl my main toon up from 20 to 85, I then spent over a year getting it to 90, I then started another toon which I let HB lvl up to 90, I then played it on my own and have been for a couple of months now.

Last week I got stuck on a quest in MOP and went back on earlier in this week but got no further, I then got a mail saying I was cheating and giving me a 6 month ban.

A few years ago before the cata ex, I used HB to lvl up half a dozen toons without issue and they were going almost 24/7, for personal reasons I started a new account with Blizz with my current toons.

As I say earlier, I have no reason to lie, I'm not looking for sympathy over getting banned, just a solution to the problem of getting banned and I don't think your type of post is relevant or helpful to the community, at least I said something to Blizz, I'm trying to do something constructive.

 

[alex4honor]

the privacy thing... this is important to investigate in, because thats smth. even the big players in the world dont really respect and I believe as well, that Bliz is doing things, where not all of them are legal!

 

[downeyy]

The following is a ticket i have just opened after getting banned a couple of days ago (banned for 6 months) and getting nowhere with the support idiots.

I'm not a lawyer but I do believe what I wrote is valid in the EU/UK, though I do suspect they will kick me out for good after reading it, I did not add the bit about why the eula/tos is invalid as I ran out of space but if I will post up that bit if I ever get anywhere with them. but one angle is to sue Blizz not for banning you but for not properly investigating your appeal (it's a different thing and almost indefensible against) the detriment is of course only any money you paid in advance and may not be worth getting a permanent ban for some.

-------------------------------------------------

My wow account has been banned and the original ticket I opened has been cancelled, what you cancelled and ignored was a formal and legal request, further failure will be a breach of EU law and I will be forced to report you to the data commissioner should you fail to provide the data requested.

I give notice that under EU Data Protection Directive (95/46/EC) I am exercising my right to check the data Activision or associated companies/subsidiaries hold about myself and that such data is correct and being handled in accordance with data protection laws.

I dispute the validity of the wow eula/tos, under UK law, I believe the said eula/tos breaches the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

I further dispute the validity of your actions against my account, I believe the eula/tos has been rendered invalid by the non enforcement of said and further that the eula/tos is ambiguous in the wording and therefore unenforceable under EU/UK law and that by Activision actions I have received detriment.

Activion have based their decision on an illegal search of my system, it is disputed that if such a search legal or not had provided the file-names of programs Activision considered in breach of the eula/tos that such discovery was not proof that such had been used during access to Activision servers and that Activisions denial of access to my account amounts to a breach of contract and that such has caused me detriment.

I request acknowledgement of this request within 48 hours and for all information held by Activision or associated companies/subsidiaries to be forwarded to my physical or email address in a timely fashion, this I believe is currently 40 days.

I trust this request will not be treated with the contempt my previous request was given and I look forward to your response and the data I have requested.

Regards airwaveflyer

-------------------------------------------------

Shake that salt baby

 

[Lars2222]

Go for it Downeyy, sounds like you are on to something there

 

[Darkdog72]

You were caught red handed botting, don't try to lie and deny it lol. Just accept the ban and move on.

You are aware that you have certain rights as a consumer? At least within the EU (where I am), the claim that Blizzard can shut down your account at any time, for no reason is clearly against consumer laws. The obligation to deliver a service you paid for is absolute, by the moment they accept your payment. That is not amendable by any ToS/EULA, by law. The EULA is written to secure Blizzard's interests. It's not a complete list of your rights as a consumer, but just a brief list of things it grants you as to not give an impression that the entire document is lopsided. It does not limit universal consumer rights according to the laws in your country of origin.

If you are found to be in breach of acceptable use policy, that you agreed upon, you still have the right to receive a refund of the divedend for any service you didn't use, i.e. the number of days left on your subscription after which the service was denied you. Hence, the only thing Blizzard can do is to deny you access, if it can prove you were in breach of contract.

Blizzard has to provide that proof upon request, since it is the party initiating the action. Upon failure to provide that evidence, Blizzard is in breach of contract for not delivering a service that you paid for. This is at best in violation of consumer laws, and also actual fraud if they refuse to pay you back excess amount paid.

Likewise, it is very likely you would succeed in suing for fraud, if by any event you spent any money for services related to an account that Blizzard had flagged for botting and had plans to suspend or ban at the moment of purchase. There is a clear obligation to deny further orders from you, from the moment they claim you were in breach of contract (not your suspension date, but they date they became aware of your actions). Accepting additional purchases after that, which in any way related to the product they stop delivering due to events it was aware of before the purchase (account renewals, tokens, in-game items) is then an implicit acceptance that you did not breach contract. At its absolute best interpretation, it is horrible business ethics and exploitative practices.

So many people seems to believe that Blizzard defines the law by providing a ToS/EULA. That's far from the truth, and they cannot take away your universal consumer rights.

If I was to apply your logic and accept the EULA literally at the worst possible interpretation, Blizzard could charge you for 12 months of game time and then shut down your account without giving any reason, yet keep the money.

It is pretty scary that people are apparently that gullible and have absolutely no clue about their own rights.

 

[Aion]

You are aware that you have certain rights as a consumer? At least within the EU (where I am), the claim that Blizzard can shut down your account at any time, for no reason is clearly against consumer laws. The obligation to deliver a service you paid for is absolute, by the moment they accept your payment. That is not amendable by any ToS/EULA, by law. The EULA is written to secure Blizzard's interests. It's not a complete list of your rights as a consumer, but just a brief list of things it grants you as to not give an impression that the entire document is lopsided. It does not limit universal consumer rights according to the laws in your country of origin.

If you are found to be in breach of acceptable use policy, that you agreed upon, you still have the right to receive a refund of the divedend for any service you didn't use, i.e. the number of days left on your subscription after which the service was denied you. Hence, the only thing Blizzard can do is to deny you access, if it can prove you were in breach of contract.

Blizzard has to provide that proof upon request, since it is the party initiating the action. Upon failure to provide that evidence, Blizzard is in breach of contract for not delivering a service that you paid for. This is at best in violation of consumer laws, and also actual fraud if they refuse to pay you back excess amount paid.

Likewise, it is very likely you would succeed in suing for fraud, if by any event you spent any money for services related to an account that Blizzard had flagged for botting and had plans to suspend or ban at the moment of purchase. There is a clear obligation to deny further orders from you, from the moment they claim you were in breach of contract (not your suspension date, but they date they became aware of your actions). Accepting additional purchases after that, which in any way related to the product they stop delivering due to events it was aware of before the purchase (account renewals, tokens, in-game items) is then an implicit acceptance that you did not breach contract. At its absolute best interpretation, it is horrible business ethics and exploitative practices.

So many people seems to believe that Blizzard defines the law by providing a ToS/EULA. That's far from the truth, and they cannot take away your universal consumer rights.

If I was to apply your logic and accept the EULA literally at the worst possible interpretation, Blizzard could charge you for 12 months of game time and then shut down your account without giving any reason, yet keep the money.

It is pretty scary that people are apparently that gullible and have absolutely no clue about their own rights.

This is the most correct explanation in this forum regarding the bad practices, Blizzard treat its customers!

I wish, I could vote that reply as Sticky in its own thread!

 

[Thecamel]

This is the most correct explanation in this forum regarding the bad practices, Blizzard treat its customers!

I wish, I could vote that reply as Sticky in its own thread!

Well its not correct- In Australia anyhow.

There have been plenty of cases in Australia where a Telco has provided a phone contract for 24month period (under contract).

In the case I'm referring to (there as been many) Telstra (the Telco) cancelled the phone due to a breach in contract (using the phone in a business environment) and forced the client to pay out the remaining of the contract..

It was all over the news- and Telstra one- The client was forced to pay out the contract as they breached it.

There is no difference in the case of WOW..

So no I don't think it should be pinned.

 

[Darkdog72]

Well its not correct- In Australia anyhow.

There have been plenty of cases in Australia where a Telco has provided a phone contract for 24month period (under contract).

In the case I'm referring to (there as been many) Telstra (the Telco) cancelled the phone due to a breach in contract (using the phone in a business environment) and forced the client to pay out the remaining of the contract..

It was all over the news- and Telstra one- The client was forced to pay out the contract as they breached it.

There is no difference in the case of WOW..

So no I don't think it should be pinned.

As I said, I'm refering to EU laws. Most EU countries (apart from the UK) is using a different legal system, and also have a lot stricter consumer protection laws than the US, probably Asia and likely Australia as you said (which is obviously not part of the EU). These laws are in place to prevent exploitative behaviour towards its citizens, as it is not expected that normal people have both the knowledge and resources to fight a multi-million $$ company.

I don't know the cases you are refering to; I didn't read the conclusion of the court and I don't know the laws they even used to question it. I don't even know if the attorneys did a terrible job, or if the case was tried in the highest court instance. If you want to use a court case as an example of what Blizzard is doing is fine in Australia, you should back it up a bit more by at least providing the key points describing why the case was lost, or a link to somewhere covering it in detail. If not it is pretty invaluable as a reference.

My point was just as much to describe what kind of business ethics Blizzard operates under. I believe the points I am making are pretty universal, regardless of what your local laws says. It's a bit like stating it's ok to beat your kids with a stick because you were (un)fortunate to live in a country that permits it.

Edit: I forgot to add that if you refer to a case in which a businesses was buying personal, non-business-restricted subscriptions and paid their employee's phone bills (directly or over the payslip) to save money, the cases cannot be compared. In the EU also, consumer laws doesn't fully cover businesses and can generally be overridden by contract. From re-reading your post, it sounds like this was an attempt of willfully bypassing product restrictions for financial gains, and the action was actually performed by the businesses by proxy. Not the same thing at all. The issue here would be whether it was actually you or the business/your employer that was actually using the subscription. This constituted direct financial losses for the telco. Blizzard doesn't lose money if you bot for personal use.

 

[Thecamel]

I don't think what blizzard has done is ok..

In fact I think they may have broken some privacy laws in Australia...

Whilst you can persure against blizzard for privacy reasons, (in fact I intend to) it's not going to help you retain your account..

Whilst the money factor may be a issue, if blizzard doesn't want you as a customer they can scrap you as they wish, sure if may be debatable regarding pre paid moneis owed to you.. I would not presume what would happen here in Australia regarding this, as I have never entered into a pre paid deal with blizzard

 

[Aetheric]

Um your forget one thing..

Blizzard owns your account.. They don't need a reason to suspend it....

A GM could perm bann your account with the reason- I don't like his hair style..

There is nothing a 3rd party could do too help you. Their TOS are very clear, That your account could be suspended at any time for any reason- They don't even need to let you know or respond to you..

BAM - and there you go.

Regardless any legal stuff about privacy and things, we all explicitly agreed on the fact that Blizzard will always be the OWNER of your account.
The same TOS tells you that Blizzard may remove items, gold, a character or your entire account even, without having to provide an explanation.
Those are considered GAME items and have nothing to do with your personal private information or any privacy act.

End of story.

*edit :
UNLESS someone takes it to court and get a judge telling you that YOU are the owner of your game-account (read: game-items).
In that case, that will render the TOS totally useless.

 

[Darkdog72]

BAM - and there you go.

Regardless any legal stuff about privacy and things, we all explicitly agreed on the fact that Blizzard will always be the OWNER of your account.
The same TOS tells you that Blizzard may remove items, gold, a character or your entire account even, without having to provide an explanation.
Those are considered GAME items and have nothing to do with your personal private information or any privacy act.

End of story.

*edit :
UNLESS someone takes it to court and get a judge telling you that YOU are the owner of your game-account (read: game-items).
In that case, that will render the TOS totally useless.

You are most likely wrong, because like I said in a previous message, you have certain unamendable rights.

If you think an EULA/ToS is an absolute law once you agree to it (never mind consumer laws and unfair terms), anyone who ever bought a product would be pretty fucked by now, as corporates could put whatever they like in there. Unless you could afford an attorney to review every EULA/ToS before you buy.

 

[Aetheric]

You are most likely wrong, because like I said in a previous message, you have certain unamendable rights.

If you think an EULA/ToS is an absolute law once you agree to it (never mind consumer laws and unfair terms), anyone who ever bought a product would be pretty fucked by now, as corporates could put whatever they like in there. Unless you could afford an attorney to review every EULA/ToS before you buy.

This has nothing to do with _any_ law - it's about a publisher of a game, providing the necessary resources (servers, network, support, etc) to play a game.

They explicitly ask you to agree on the fact that Blizzard is the owner of your in-game items (yes, even your WoW account is an in-game item).

The product itself (the WoW client) is still yours - that's what you initially bought - no infringement here.
The subscription (your right to connect to and use their resources) contains in-game items and those aren't yours.

If you're in doubt, I'd say try to claim those in-game items in court.
But I don't think you will find any judge that will be in your favour.

 

[eigoteacher]

You are aware that you have certain rights as a consumer? At least within the EU (where I am), the claim that Blizzard can shut down your account at any time, for no reason is clearly against consumer laws. The obligation to deliver a service you paid for is absolute, by the moment they accept your payment. That is not amendable by any ToS/EULA, by law. The EULA is written to secure Blizzard's interests. It's not a complete list of your rights as a consumer, but just a brief list of things it grants you as to not give an impression that the entire document is lopsided. It does not limit universal consumer rights according to the laws in your country of origin.

If you are found to be in breach of acceptable use policy, that you agreed upon, you still have the right to receive a refund of the divedend for any service you didn't use, i.e. the number of days left on your subscription after which the service was denied you. Hence, the only thing Blizzard can do is to deny you access, if it can prove you were in breach of contract.

Blizzard has to provide that proof upon request, since it is the party initiating the action. Upon failure to provide that evidence, Blizzard is in breach of contract for not delivering a service that you paid for. This is at best in violation of consumer laws, and also actual fraud if they refuse to pay you back excess amount paid.

Likewise, it is very likely you would succeed in suing for fraud, if by any event you spent any money for services related to an account that Blizzard had flagged for botting and had plans to suspend or ban at the moment of purchase. There is a clear obligation to deny further orders from you, from the moment they claim you were in breach of contract (not your suspension date, but they date they became aware of your actions). Accepting additional purchases after that, which in any way related to the product they stop delivering due to events it was aware of before the purchase (account renewals, tokens, in-game items) is then an implicit acceptance that you did not breach contract. At its absolute best interpretation, it is horrible business ethics and exploitative practices.

So many people seems to believe that Blizzard defines the law by providing a ToS/EULA. That's far from the truth, and they cannot take away your universal consumer rights.

If I was to apply your logic and accept the EULA literally at the worst possible interpretation, Blizzard could charge you for 12 months of game time and then shut down your account without giving any reason, yet keep the money.

It is pretty scary that people are apparently that gullible and have absolutely no clue about their own rights.

Blizzard has their own rights to ban people from playing their game due to cheating. They have their own rights to protect their property. You seem to only think about consumer rights when companies have rights too. They don't have to explain more when it clearly says that if you cheat, they can terminate your access to the game.

 

[Darkdog72]

This has nothing to do with _any_ law - it's about a publisher of a game, providing the necessary resources (servers, network, support, etc) to play a game.

They explicitly ask you to agree on the fact that Blizzard is the owner of your in-game items (yes, even your WoW account is an in-game item).

The product itself (the WoW client) is still yours - that's what you initially bought - no infringement here.
The subscription (your right to connect to and use their resources) contains in-game items and those aren't yours.

If you're in doubt, I'd say try to claim those in-game items in court.
But I don't think you will find any judge that will be in your favour.

That is not correct. You're doing exactly what I said gullible people are doing right now. Thinking the ToS/EULA is absolute.

I have no idea in what country you live, but all civilized countries have consumer laws and regulations on unfair business practices.

Also, you do not own your game client, but you posess a right to use it.

 

[Aetheric]

That is not correct. You're doing exactly what I said gullible people are doing right now.

Gullible?
I resent that ..

Thinking the ToS/EULA is absolute.

I didn't say that. You are trying to tell us that Blizzard doesn't have any rights in this at all, and that their terms to use the game doesn't mean a thing.
And I beg to differ. In-game items are not yours - full stop.

As I said, bring it to court, if you're so certain.
And please keep this forum posted.

Also, you do not own your game client, but you posess a right to use it.

You are right, of course. I stand corrected.