In Regards to Questing.

[Synik]

First of all I would like to stress this whole post is mainly my opinion. There will be those of you who agree and those of you whom disagree but that is not the point and I kindly ask those whom wish to flame or troll this thread to refrain.

Ok so we currently have the "teasers" for questing. I call them teasers simply because they give us insight on what questing is going to be like when it is properly released. These teasers have shown me something I really was not expecting...

Right, let me explain what I expected. I assumed we would see questing laid out in the traditional manner, by that I mean like the old task profiles other bots used to run.
These task files would be simply say pick up these quests, go solve them, hand in then perhaps take the tram to Ironforge and run to Loch Modan whilst picking the flight paths in between. Once there do a few quests in Loch Modan then perhaps fly back to Stormwind.
All this would be done step by step in the order designated in the task file.

Instead what I see is a very ambitious plan which in my opinion makes things a little more complicated even though at first glance they seem to be very easy to comprehend. The idea of being able to pick up a grinding profile and click start with questing enabled is awesome for people new to the whole botting community but at the same time some of us prefer a challenge to make the perfect profiles which maximise efficiency.

Also, in regards to my previous post, I mentioned about the functionality of portals/trams/zeppelins/boats/flight paths being hard coded into the core, all these are very important for questing in so many different ways yet early indication leads me to realise these things are not going to appear any time soon and may not even be hard coded into the core.

In conclusion I guess both myself and others are looking for some sort of response that indicates whether the current direction is as it is going to be at the release or whether the possibility for compromise is a viable option.

 

[Ivanovai]

Totally Agree,

Even if they quested along the same route one of the 1-80 guides it would be great,

The problem is, now everyone is making guides, there is going to be wayy too many profiles of certain areas and not enough of the full 1-80,
A Already functioning 1-80 should have been coded into the bot with a drop down menu perhaps ?

Eitherway, good luck with implementing what you are trying to, and im sure it will turn out good

Kai

 

[laria]

The current lot of questing profiles just comes from the possibility to create them in a simple way.
In the worst case its just a small grindprofile with some questtags in between, and contains even quests which HB cant do yet.
I understand, that you want to have a simple solution that doesnt require much dedication and is more like "select questing,go"
If you want to create a questing-profile that is superior to those , that were quickly thrown together, you need to break the process down into smaller steps like:
-go there
-talk to
-accept quest X (without quests y and z which this npc also offers)
-buy a
-kill b
-use item
- click object

You can safe yourself a lot of travelling, if you are able to use flighpaths , ships and zeppelins, BUT
the biggest gain would be the ability to set hearthstone binding point and using this hearthsone whenever you need it in your profile.
I think of questing as some kind of scripted behaviour, not done via magic of hb.
Its ok for some people to have it just that simple, but many people want to give hb more precise instructions.

I dont think, that an already included leveling guide should be done. I think its the developers task to make hb work safely and add new functions to their products.
Things like profiles can also be done by the community and should be, because the dev-team already is busy with more advanced coding.

 

[okeofs]

I think you misunderstand. They aren't "teasers". They're "BETA"s. That means that they're released incomplete for bug testing by the community at large in order to work out issues before a final product is put together. The two concepts are completely different.

 

[Synik]

I think you misunderstand. They aren't "teasers". They're "BETA"s. That means that they're released incomplete for bug testing by the community at large in order to work out issues before a final product is put together. The two concepts are completely different.

Ok so we currently have the "teasers" for questing. I call them teasers simply because they give us insight on what questing is going to be like when it is properly released. These teasers have shown me something I really was not expecting...

In my eyes the bit in bold clearly states why I call them teasers rather than BETA's.

However discussing the usage of terminology detracts from the issues of my post and as such I ask we stick to the issues detailed within the original post in order to have and continue a meaningful discussion.

 

[exfelon]

Right, let me explain what I expected. I assumed we would see questing laid out in the traditional manner, by that I mean like the old task profiles other bots used to run.
These task files would be simply say pick up these quests, go solve them, hand in then perhaps take the tram to Ironforge and run to Loch Modan whilst picking the flight paths in between. Once there do a few quests in Loch Modan then perhaps fly back to Stormwind.
All this would be done step by step in the order designated in the task file.

So you think the product someone is creating isn't going in the direction you think it should? I'm just trying to see what exactly you're "declaring". From what I've seen it looks like you'll be able to do exactly what you want. I don't think they'll give you drop down menu's to select quests (lol, you realize how many quests there are correct?) In fact, it looks to me like it will do exactly what you're wanting it to do. When you say "hard coded" what do you mean? I mean some flight path functionality is already "hard coded" into the bot? So why do you think that it will not be in the final version?

Also, in regards to my previous post, I mentioned about the functionality of portals/trams/zeppelins/boats/flight paths being hard coded into the core, all these are very important for questing in so many different ways yet early indication leads me to realise these things are not going to appear any time soon and may not even be hard coded into the core.

Please don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't get what your worry/question/concern/fear is? That people will not make the task files you want them to? That it'll be too difficult to accomplish the things you and others are wanting to do? You say you want the challenge of creating "perfect profiles", but I don't see how you'll be prevented from doing that? From what I've seen, all of those things you sort of mention/elude to wanting are going to be available/possible...

 

[Anegus]

First of all I would like to stress this whole post is mainly my opinion. There will be those of you who agree and those of you whom disagree but that is not the point and I kindly ask those whom wish to flame or troll this thread to refrain.

Making statements like this isn't going to deter anyone from anything other than encouraging opposition to your point of view. Best plan is just ignore the trolls and make your point.

Ok so we currently have the "teasers" for questing. I call them teasers simply because they give us insight on what questing is going to be like when it is properly released. These teasers have shown me something I really was not expecting...

Glad you value the devs work so much that you consider the whole questing system a teaser. Its working and is actually quite successful at what it does. There are problems and bugs, but you can't find another working bot that comes close in the fullness of features of HB.

Right, let me explain what I expected. I assumed we would see questing laid out in the traditional manner, by that I mean like the old task profiles other bots used to run.
These task files would be simply say pick up these quests, go solve them, hand in then perhaps take the tram to Ironforge and run to Loch Modan whilst picking the flight paths in between. Once there do a few quests in Loch Modan then perhaps fly back to Stormwind.
All this would be done step by step in the order designated in the task file.

Sorry this isn't glider. There are 2 things that I see you saying are missing from HB and you could have saved yourself a whole lot of time and complaining if you just got to the point.

1.) The ability to order or group the quests that the character does.
2.) The ability to use flight paths/trains/zepplins/ect

Both of these are reasonable requests.

Instead what I see is a very ambitious plan which in my opinion makes things a little more complicated even though at first glance they seem to be very easy to comprehend. The idea of being able to pick up a grinding profile and click start with questing enabled is awesome for people new to the whole botting community but at the same time some of us prefer a challenge to make the perfect profiles which maximise efficiency.

Also, in regards to my previous post, I mentioned about the functionality of portals/trams/zeppelins/boats/flight paths being hard coded into the core, all these are very important for questing in so many different ways yet early indication leads me to realise these things are not going to appear any time soon and may not even be hard coded into the core.

In conclusion I guess both myself and others are looking for some sort of response that indicates whether the current direction is as it is going to be at the release or whether the possibility for compromise is a viable option.

So instead of making 2 simple addition requests you chose to belittle the work of the devs on the most easy to use questing system BETA to date, because it doesn't function like glider did. You may not have intended for it to come off that way, but to me, your post came off as pretty unappreciative of the work the devs have done.

The advantage of the current systems implementation is that you don't need to create huge profiles that tell the bot exactly what to do. A user can come along and create a custom profile very easily and get the bot working. Eventually the bot will be optimized to make more efficient routes, but it probably makes more sense to clean up and fix the current processes before moving on to making them more efficient. Manual override is not a solution for a buggy automated system. Fix and make the automated system better than the need to do things manually and you never have to do them manually again. Compromise and rely on manual creation and you will forever be doomed to manual creation.

The worth of ideas is as much about presentation of said ideas as it is about the substance of those ideas.

 

[Nuok]

100% agree with laria.

 

[Synik]

So you think the product someone is creating isn't going in the direction you think it should?

The product is going in the right direction however in my opinion the methods being used are not. It is obvious the bot needed questing to rule the roost as it were, however I and many others were looking for the ability to define the exact steps the bot should follow rather than saying just go to X hotspot and do some quests here before moving to the next sub profile.

I'm just trying to see what exactly you're "declaring". From what I've seen it looks like you'll be able to do exactly what you want.

The ability to follow a set order is not possible.
The ability to only pick up declared quests is currently not possible.
The ability to utilise transport in order to maximise efficiency is currently not possible.

These are just some of the things a questing bot needs, none of which have been officially given the thumbs up to be introduced at least in the foreseeable future.

I don't think they'll give you drop down menu's to select quests (lol, you realize how many quests there are correct?)

A drop down list of quests is not something I actually care for nor indicated that I wanted to see.

When you say "hard coded" what do you mean?

I mean as actually part of the bot and not a plugin.

I mean some flight path functionality is already "hard coded" into the bot?

Care to back that up with evidence?

So why do you think that it will not be in the final version?

I think this based on the comments of ski who will no doubt have a little more insight to the development than us.

Please don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't get what your worry/question/concern/fear is? That people will not make the task files you want them to?

Your comments are fine, it actually benefits me to reply to your comments to further express my intentions.
Also, my intentions are to make my own profile exactly as I want it not just a generic list of things to do but rather full control over my bot.

You say you want the challenge of creating "perfect profiles", but I don't see how you'll be prevented from doing that?

The ability to dictate the exact steps for the bot to follow will mean faster leveling and better all round efficiency as it will do as I want when I want it.

 

[exfelon]

Perhaps this isn't the bot for you then? I like it, and hopefully all (or at least some) of the things you want the bot to do will be available. Like it was mentioned earlier, for better or worse, this isn't glider/ppather. Personally I don't think wasting a moments time on giving the bot the ability to take trams/boats is worth it. Flightpaths will be doable. I think you'll be able to pick just the quests you want it to do, even if it means doing it in reverse (blacklisting all the quests you don't want it to do). I think you'll be able to do things in order, even if it means using a profile switcher of some sort. But again, meh what's do I know, I'm just a simple hyperchicken from a backwood asteroid...

You want full control over your bot. Does anyone want to guess what the simple problem with that line is?

 

[Synik]

Making statements like this isn't going to deter anyone from anything other than encouraging opposition to your point of view. Best plan is just ignore the trolls and make your point.

True but it was worth indicating that the statements are merely opinions and not something I am demanding.

Glad you value the devs work so much that you consider the whole questing system a teaser. Its working and is actually quite successful at what it does. There are problems and bugs, but you can't find another working bot that comes close in the fullness of features of HB.

Whilst it is indeed a BETA release it should also be considered a teaser of things to come. Perhaps my use of the word was an incorrect way to put my views across.

Sorry this isn't glider. There are 2 things that I see you saying are missing from HB and you could have saved yourself a whole lot of time and complaining if you just got to the point.

I know it isn't Glider/Ppather. These 2 things are just a portion of the point I was trying to get across.

So instead of making 2 simple addition requests you chose to belittle the work of the devs on the most easy to use questing system BETA to date, because it doesn't function like glider did. You may not have intended for it to come off that way, but to me, your post came off as pretty unappreciative of the work the devs have done.

It is not just a case of requesting 2 new additions to the functionality and this is in no way intended to belittle anyone, especially the developers who have put hours of work into getting the system up and running.


Also I would like to point out that this is not a demand for things to be added. It is in fact a discussion for suggestions I have put forward and would like to see.
The other thing worth mentioning is that this is posted in the developer section in order to perhaps get replies from the developers themselves in regards to both mine and other people's ideas and perhaps for clarification on future functionality.

 

[Mordd]

Well I didnt bother reading the follow up posts but ill say this. I am writing from scratch a 1-60. Shes level 19 now and its taken me 3 days to get there. Countless hours of testing, blacklisting, trial and error. To make it the safest possible profile while doing all the quests possible. My hard work means that one day you will load my profile, hit start, and come back a week (or less) later with a level 60 standing in stormwind. Sure there are bugs, but with all the effort that should go into the profiles will produce an amazing work of art that will have blizzard watching your every single click to see if you are a bot.

 

[Synik]

Well I didnt bother reading the follow up posts but ill say this. I am writing from scratch a 1-60. Shes level 19 now and its taken me 3 days to get there. Countless hours of testing, blacklisting, trial and error. To make it the safest possible profile while doing all the quests possible. My hard work means that one day you will load my profile, hit start, and come back a week (or less) later with a level 60 standing in stormwind. Sure there are bugs, but with all the effort that should go into the profiles will produce an amazing work of art that will have blizzard watching your every single click to see if you are a bot.

It might be of benefit to read the follow up posts as perhaps they will better explain my intentions

 

[Mordd]

It might be of benefit to read the follow up posts as perhaps they will better explain my intentions

The general theme I am seeing here is that you expected HB2 to be easier

 

[Synik]

The general theme I am seeing here is that you expected HB2 to be easier

Quite the opposite actually.

I wanted to see the ability to make more of a ppather task file rather than the current forced quest list method.
Rather than just adding quest lists to a profile I wanted to define a step by step method.

 

[Mordd]

Quite the opposite actually.

I wanted to see the ability to make more of a ppather task file rather than the current forced quest list method.
Rather than just adding quest lists to a profile I wanted to define a step by step method.

I see your point. But eventually we have to stop comparing HB to Glider/Pather. There is no replacing the original, but sometimes you have to move on.

Thats just my opinion.

 

[ski]

Quite the opposite actually.

I wanted to see the ability to make more of a ppather task file rather than the current forced quest list method.
Rather than just adding quest lists to a profile I wanted to define a step by step method.

The methods and manners for which things are presented to the end user will evolve and improve over time. Right now, the coding and development is for core functionality and features that are far more important. What good is a task file if the bot itself has no idea how to complete the task you give it? Object interaction, quest interaction, targeting, logic, api, navigation - all are important core features to any style of play, be it pvp or grinding or questing. You have to give the developers time to take it step by step and improve/build the important sections first before the end user UI/profiletags become the important target.

The purpose of these betas is to see how quest interaction combines with the rest of the core on a variety of systems, users, and situations - so that that core functionality can get to a place where it is stable enough that the focus can then be shifted to making the options for end users such as yourself as easy and straightforward as possible.

Its too early to be asking for redesigns in how questing profiles or task files will be implemented. Give them time to create a finished and stable core first.

 

[spudstar999]

just one thing to remind ... how long did it take until glider could quest like it did at the end?!

think of it ... wait until the basis is min. 99% ready .. after that more features will be implemented ( i think so, can't proof this, but this is the normal way for updating & development of new software)

sincery spud

 

[BiggBullz]

I think the dev's are doing a great job ive dabbled into the new questing beta's and for me they will be great when they release the final build. i do want something more reliable, so thats why i use 1.331 still i like to leave and not have to worry. however i will switch once questing is a bit more stable. i have all the faith in the dev's they already have an amazing product and it is on a path to get even better!

 

[Synik]

Its too early to be asking for redesigns in how questing profiles or task files will be implemented. Give them time to create a finished and stable core first.

Even if I were asking for a redesign surely now would be the best opportunity seeing as they are working out how to properly implement questing, hence the changes with forced quest list tags and such.

I think people need to sit back and understand what I am saying here.
I clearly stated that these were my opinions and perhaps even suggestions for the future implementation of the questing aspect as a whole.
Now yes I did criticise certain aspects of the current BETA release of questing but that was to further illustrate the points I was trying to make.