Is LazyRaider/Tyrael Detectable?

[duranki]

Seeing a lot more reports form people who seem to think LazyRaider/Tyrael use resulted in suspension/ban. In those threads, some always insist there was some other cause for the ban, Curious if there is any consensus here as to whether LazyRaider/Tyrael are detectable, and let's assume for the purpose of the poll that interrupts and auto-buffs are off.

 

[Tararan]

I think there is just a lot of denial going on that the bans are all resulting from irresponsible botting. I used LazyRaider in dungeons, not PvP, so the probability that I was suspended from player reports is pretty low. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it seems that all of a sudden a lot of people using these sorts of bots were banned. I doubt that such a sudden influx of rotation bot bans could all have been from other instances of irresponsible botting. If so, why were the vast majority of them rotation bot related? Why were there so many that were suddenly banned while they were using it? It just doesn't add up. If it was irresponsible botting alone, then plenty of other sorts of bans would have occurred. In this case, almost all of the ban reports were from these bots.

 

[toliman]

All i can say with definitive authority is,

first, it's unlikely to be a ban based off automated rotation routines.
and second, Almost anything that HB does could "give the game away" if you speculate wildly.

Even after playing devil's advocate, there's no real evidence of Tyrael or frame lock bots being anything but efficient.

speculatively, i don't know. there could be a throttle or flood detection effect, or some kind of automated trigger when you use 4 spells in the correct timed sequence, like an evil "simon says"

but all of that is very unlikely, due to the extensive number of people using routines all day, every day, for years. It's far more likely to be "characteristics of play" from addons, plugins, bots and QB's that are noted by a player or GM,

or the dread LCP...

or ... anything.

If it's an automatic system flagging combat usage, then a lot of others like PQR and other routines, would also be in the firing line. Really, anything that is done in bulk, any kind of targeting or positional code would also be suspect, i.e. totems or aoe effects, moving out of fire, strafing code, unstucks, things that are signatures, stand out if you're looking for it.

Any ban most likely requires human intervention and review, which can also lead to false positives, and false negatives. The compensating argument is, if you're the top of your field, people will copy your moves and idiosyncratic behavior, use the same macros, strafe the same way, etc.

So, not to dismiss this entirely, there just could be something that is leaking through, and, your suspicions might be confirmed one day if there's something to correlate.

hence the ban reports.

The odds are, it's more than likely a flagged issue, 6-12 months ago, and the backlog is that immense that it takes time to go through a backlog of records, notes and parse them through the ban-0-matic(tm) process,

this would be a system where a server might get 20,000 spam flags a day from spam-flagging-addon users, because someone said "i need 50g to buy a mount plz some1 help" in trade chat, the same system is most likely buried in players blaming bots for PvP losses, undercutting auctions, everything but the reason illustrated in the complaint, it all has to be reported, filed, sorted, and flagged by someone and investigated, and you never really know.

 

[Mario27]

i never got banned for using tyrael and hb in raids or arena i only got banned one time for being stupid and using to mutch gb

 

[duranki]

The odds are, it's more than likely a flagged issue, 6-12 months ago, and the backlog is that immense that it takes time to go through a backlog of records, notes and parse them through the ban-0-matic(tm) process, this would be a system where a server might get 20,000 spam flags a day from spam-flagging-addon users, because someone said "i need 50g to buy a mount plz some1 help" in trade chat, the same system is most likely buried in players blaming bots for PvP losses, undercutting auctions, everything but the reason illustrated in the complaint, it all has to be reported, filed, sorted, and flagged by someone and investigated, and you never really know.

First off, great post toliman, with alot of useful information, and one that pretty much sums up most of the possibilities. On the backlog question, though, in my case I had only been botting a little more than a month. Most of it was LazyRaider, but there was a total of about 3 hours of GB in there too, so who knows. No dog in the fight right now, suspension is over and I'm laying low for the forseeable future, but it is a question that nags at me.

 

[Giwin]

most people don't just use tyrael, there's a lot of liers out there but some people can get banned due to getting stuck when raiding... then it's player report.

 

[Xcesius]

It's not possible that Tyrael,Lazyraider or Raidbot (WITHOUT movement) is detected in any way. Then HB would need detected itself, which is HIGHLY unlikely then there would be 20x larger amount of bans.

You were triggered by something else than combat bot routines / botbases.

 

[tangledlight]

I see a lot of people making absolute statements, but not a lot of proof to back up these assertions.

The fact of the matter is, there are a lot of people getting banned who are claiming that they're only using rotation bots. While I feel not everyone is telling the truth about it being the only thing they've been using, there are too many reports to be completely coincidental. It's very obvious something is going on, perhaps a rotation bot is not an immediate trigger, but an action while using the rotation bots is (largely suspected to be auto-buffs and auto-interrupts in both PVE and PVP situations).

There is certainly something afoot, that much is for sure. Blizzard has definitely figured out some way to detect the bot in some shape or form and until it's figured out what's setting things off, I'm taking a break from botting.

 

[Xcesius]

I see a lot of people making absolute statements, but not a lot of proof to back up these assertions.

The fact of the matter is, there are a lot of people getting banned who are claiming that they're only using rotation bots. While I feel not everyone is telling the truth about it being the only thing they've been using, there are too many reports to be completely coincidental. It's very obvious something is going on, perhaps a rotation bot is not an immediate trigger, but an action while using the rotation bots is (largely suspected to be auto-buffs and auto-interrupts in both PVE and PVP situations).

There is certainly something afoot, that much is for sure. Blizzard has definitely figured out some way to detect the bot in some shape or form and until it's figured out what's setting things off, I'm taking a break from botting.

No.

 

[tangledlight]

No.

Yes.

 

[syntaxtc]

Have had no problems using this combination in the last 3months on my main account.

 

[Xcesius]

 

[duranki]

I see a lot of people making absolute statements, but not a lot of proof to back up these assertions.

The fact of the matter is, there are a lot of people getting banned who are claiming that they're only using rotation bots. While I feel not everyone is telling the truth about it being the only thing they've been using, there are too many reports to be completely coincidental. It's very obvious something is going on, perhaps a rotation bot is not an immediate trigger, but an action while using the rotation bots is (largely suspected to be auto-buffs and auto-interrupts in both PVE and PVP situations).

There is certainly something afoot, that much is for sure. Blizzard has definitely figured out some way to detect the bot in some shape or form and until it's figured out what's setting things off, I'm taking a break from botting.

You've given a dang good summation of where I stand on the issue. Some here are saying, "oh, if Blizz could detect LR, they could detect HB, and then we'd all have been banned." I think we need to remember, Blizzard does NOT want to get rid of botters. If they had a magic button they could push that would get rid of every one of us, their revenue would take a noticeable dive. And that at a time when they have more competition in the MMORPG market than they have had before. Competition that HAS hurt their bottom line. Which is why we see increases in suspensions/bans when they have their War Chest sales (so the botters can buy new licenses and subscribe again). Blizz, in my opinion, plays a balancing game of trying to minimize the botters impact on regular player perception and on the economy, and so long as they maintain that balance, they are happy with status quo. When the balance, as they see it, is off, we get a ban wave. But this presumes that their detection capabilities better than the average ban/suspension rate presupposes.

 

[duranki]

So much stupid in this thread...it hurts my eyes...

Self-fulfilling prophecy if ever I saw one.

 

[duranki]

Have had no problems using this combination in the last 3months on my main account.

I believe you, I really do. But the problem is, there is no activity that has been seen as resulting in a ban/suspension, including GB, that I don't see SOMEONE saying "I've been running that for months with no problem." So why then can one person bot day after day for months with no problem while another person gets suspended hours after engaging in the same activity? Player reports? Suspicious accounts that get greater scrutiny? I think these account for some, but not all of these suspensions/bans. The others...no idea. But one plausible solution is that Blizz' detection capabilities are greater than they are given credit for (and, of course, no one knows exactly what those capabilities are), and at times that they feel it necessary or expedient, they use those capabilities more. Ban waves are WAVES. Player reports don't just mysteriously spike.

 

[Tefyx]

You've given a dang good summation of where I stand on the issue. Some here are saying, "oh, if Blizz could detect LR, they could detect HB, and then we'd all have been banned." I think we need to remember, Blizzard does NOT want to get rid of botters. If they had a magic button they could push that would get rid of every one of us, their revenue would take a noticeable dive. And that at a time when they have more competition in the MMORPG market than they have had before. Competition that HAS hurt their bottom line. Which is why we see increases in suspensions/bans when they have their War Chest sales (so the botters can buy new licenses and subscribe again). Blizz, in my opinion, plays a balancing game of trying to minimize the botters impact on regular player perception and on the economy, and so long as they maintain that balance, they are happy with status quo. When the balance, as they see it, is off, we get a ban wave. But this presumes that their detection capabilities better than the average ban/suspension rate presupposes.

I have to agree with you on that point, very good one indeed.

 

[Tefyx]

Just out of curiosity, have anyone of you getting banned of using Tyrael only, not been using any other bots. Just tyrael and TuanHA? what's the odds really?

 

[handnavi]

Just out of curiosity, have anyone of you getting banned of using Tyrael only, not been using any other bots. Just tyrael and TuanHA? what's the odds really?

I am not banned... but:
If i were a "normal" player i would definately report pvpers with "unnormal" skills...aka: throwing traps at invisible units and hitting them 100% , throwing healing spheres like a machine,... , etc.

 

[Tefyx]

I will only use this one in PvE tho so it should be a really looooow ban chance if not they detect HB, right?


EDIT: how long have you been using this?

 

[rowandensmith]

I was banned using Tyrael on my main account. I didn't use anything else. I don't PVP and I don't have a single toon on my main account with gathering professions. I botted as a healer in a heroic raiding guild and no one knew or had a reason to suspect me or report me. I botted using Tyrael/LR for a year before getting caught. In my opinion, I got caught because I spent a couple of days farming old instances with the bot on. I entered Stratholme 10+ times farming Argent Dawn rep and I think that's what triggered a look-see at my account. When they scanned for a bot they found one because I was running Tyrael. So, is just Tyrael by itself detectable? Probably not. But if you do something suspicious and they check they will find the bot. The stupid thing is, they didn't ban my second account which has nothing but shit toons on it that botted using GB. Anyway, I've lost interest in this boring, repetitive game since I was banned. Since my 72-hour ban was lifted I've forced myself to log in to raid a couple of times and it's been agonizingly boring. I'm thinking about turning the bot on again and seeing what happens because, at this point, I don't really give a shit and will probably cancel my subscription soon anyway.